Iowa Livingston/e ?

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David and Kyle, Yikes I hope that Westminister Abbey got it right. On the other hand maybe Stanley got it wrong. He covers the whole funeral in the book, so hopefully he and his editor did their homework on the date. I will check with his great nephew what date his family had for their "Uncle David". Well I may pretend to know about many things that I really know nothing about, but the honest truth is I do have two old books on Dr. Livingstone that I treasure. One is an 1860 American edition of Dr. Livingstone's 1856 autobiography and the other Stanley's book on Livingston published shortly after his return from locating Dr. Livingston. The thing that is interesting about the Stanley book is that I was on one my antique road trips to the small town of St. Jacob's Ontario and after going through two floors of antiques and finding nothing of any interest except an old cow bell, what do I see but a 1874 Canadian edition of Stanley's book for only 20 bucks in fairly good condition. A little dab of my acid free glue stick and the slight spliting of the book end was fixed and the book was almost as good as new. But was is really interesting is that it is fate that I should find that one book in million in their large used book section. All the more because as it turns out the last part of the book deals in some detail with the letters that Stanley was given by the DOctor to give to his brother John in Listowel, Ontario. ALso how John came to aid of Stanley when sceptics declared that Stanley's claims of finding Livingstone were a hoax. Finally a year after I bought the book and it looked nice but collected dust on my book shelve, I should pull it out to do John Livingstone research and then a couple of weeks later find myself talking by phone to his great-grandson David, the great nephew of the famous Doctor who lives but an hour and half's drive from me. Now you have to admmit it must have been fate that drove me to find that one book out of thousands that day and that it had a significant John Livingstone connection. You don't suppose Dr. Livingstone and his brother are trying to communicate with the Clan Livingstone society from the another side. Spooky isn't it. regards Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Edith, I am sorry to say that is pretty much it except the book from 1816 which was a report of what took place at the settlement. I can check and see if one of the Mathesons were interviewed about the problems at the settlement with the North West Company. I could have got an original copy for 600 dollars. I was tempted but I ended up with a Coles Canadiana collection edition published in the 70's for 15 dollars at the Toronto book fair. There are some interesting letters of testimony from some of the settlers regarding their ordeals in 1815 and 1816 when the settlement was attacked and destroyed by the North West Company. Other than that I really dont have much more than you have. I will soon try to get access to the Selkirk papers, but I am not sure that I can get access to them here as they are in the National Archives and in the Manitoba Archives. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Jane Livingstone1]

A lot is being made about people dropping or adding the "e", but I was told (can't remember by whom) that the spelling of a name was of little significance to the highlanders. Hence, my family were usually with an "e" and sometimes without. Also I believe that they would not want to tell the census gatherer their business, so to speak, so would not give them the correct information. This certainly seems to be the case with age. On Mull, in particular, people seemed reluctant to tell anyone their age and my grandfather used to get quite upset if you would talk about how old you were in public.

[edith]

Donald, That's very interesting about the Dr. Livingstone book. You were very lucky to find it. Sometime I need to check to see if there's an index of the things that Hudson's Bay Co. archives has on microfilm. There may be something I can use. I've been doing a lot of other research and haven't gotten to that. I certainly can't get to Winnipeg to look at any papers. There's something on ElectricScotland, I think, about the 1816 report. I didn't realize they had any interviews from the settlers in it. I'll have to look for that, too. Thanks for the tip.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle, The death date for Dr. Livingstone should also be May 4,1873 for Westminister Abbey. This is also mentioned in the 1874 book. I am not sure where the May 1, 1873 date came from. The book goes into length how this death date was determined from those who were witness to his death. regards Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jane, Interesting. I have always wondered to be honest why one family went with Livingston and the other Livingstone in the highland context. I think the aristocratic Linthlinthgo and Kilsyth Livingtons of Lowland spelt their name primarily Livingston and that when our clan began widespread use of the name in the latter part of the 18th century the e at the end was favoured possibly by the Baron/Clan Chief at the time. I have also noticed age descrepancies, spelling descrepancies of names in old Census records. The original spelling of my name was Klinck, but in the 18th century Province of New York to an english speaker the preferred spelling became Clinck or Clink and thus assessment or census records were often recorded as such. And as we intermarried with New England and New York State folks by the American Revolution many of the family began to go with the more English sounding Clink. Even with my mother's family name Bryson of Scottish origin,census takers seemed to struggle with the spelling and even it sometimes ended up Brisen or something like that. And my great-great grandfather Samuel Bryson never did give his correct age on the census; we had to determine it from other sources. He was always ten years younger or so. Perhaps because his wife was almost ten years younger than him. WHo knows. My personal favorite family census record entry was for my great-great-great grandfather John Lowery for year 1861 in which I can imagine the census taker had been tired and thirsty when he came to the door and partook in some of the strong local whiskey with my great-great-great grandfather. Under householder's occupation the census taker had jokingly put in whiskey drinker, but then thinking the better of it hastily (but not very well) crossed out what he had written. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Kyle2 MacLea]

great information as always, Donald!

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Donald! That Whiskey Drinker story is hilarious!

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle, I think he may have worked with the neighbourhood blacksmith and had a small farm. I seriously doubt he made any kind of living as a whiskey drinker. He came to Canada from County Armagh Ireland in 1856 and according to his tombstone died in 1869. We never knew what village or Parish he and his family came from until recently when a cousin located one of his son's marriage records shortly before the family left for Canada. By the time I found the tombstone some local vandals had done a fine job of breaking it in half. Unlike in the old country where my mother's ancestor's my great-great- great-great grandfather Bryson's stone and his father in law's grave and other kin lies in perfect condition in an ancient parish graveyard, here alot of the old cemeteries have sadly been left to ruin or have been plagued by vandals. Air pollution also has had an significant impact, particularly upon some stones more than others. Fortunately in the last twenty five years groups of dedicated genealogists and family historians have painstakingly copied family information from some of the remaining old stones that can still be read in many of our Township cemeteries in Ontario. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Kyle2 MacLea]

I will never understand those who vandalize cemeteries.