DNA testing

[Andrew Lancaster5]

Rob and everyone else will be interested to know that I have found some male Livingstones from my branch, the descendents of David Peter Livingstone of Dundee, who are willing to participate. As I mentioned before, the family is pretty confident that the father of David, John, was an uncle of the famous missionary. Perhaps Rob can make something more clear for me though. If I read his website correctly, the Y chromosome of the Baronial family has been identified, while that of the Missionary's has not. Presumably no confirmed relative has stepped forward? Regards Andrew Lancaster

[Rob Livingston2]

Hi Andrew,  You are correct. The DNA of the Lismore Livingstones is clearly identified with two exact matches - myself and Alastair Livingstone of Bachuil, separated by 13 birth events.  We are expecting results soon for a third person with apparent ancestors from Lismore. Though the Baron's family had intimate involvement with the family of Dr. David Livingstone, the exact blood relationship has never been clearly documented.  Maybe Niall can expand on this. We do have a DNA sample from a Livingstone originating in Morvern (just to the north of where Dr. Livingstone's parents and grandparents lived).  The genetic distance between this individual and the Lismore Livingstones is considerable - between 1000 and 1500 years.  Yet a Livingstone in Morvern would have undoubtedly considered himself a cousin to the Livingstones in Lismore.  This explains why there are so many Livingstones claiming a relationship to Dr. Livingstone - they considered all Livingstones to be cousins!  No Livingstones with a clear and documented relationship to Dr. Livingstone has yet to step forward for DNA testing, though there is one in the works who claims to possess the walking stick of Dr. Livingstone. Rob

[Andrew Lancaster5]

Dear Rob You probably have to be careful how you say all this. You are of course only talking about the Y chromosome DNA and not the rest. The Livingstones who say they are related may well be strongly related, without sharing a common line of fathers. In fact, the word on this website is that Livingstones tended to look like one another once, which would be an indication. But presumably there were many many different Y chromosomes amongst this big group. The problem is that we focus on who our fathers are more than our other ancestors were. People understand if I say "I am one quarter Livingstone" that one of my 4 great grand parents had the family name Livingstone from his or her father. We speak this way, as if that person had been a "pure" Livingstone, because we are interested in the family names that go from father to child. But actually I should have zero Livingstone Y chromosome, and the rest of my genes are as much influenced by families whose name only appears many generations further back, as by the Livingstones. Which means I could have a lot of Livingstone genes or very few. But then when is a Livingstone gene a Livingstone gene? Strictly speaking, I suppose it would mean only a gene coming from a man with that surname. But surely when we talk about Scottish clans we have to be a bit more flexible. Between the dark ages and Culloden, the women and men of the area must have shared an re-shared a lot of genes. Whether they had originally come from Viking fathers, or Irish Scots mothers, the Welsh, Saxons, or Picts would not be the point, there would be a certain RANGE of different genes which we could call "Livingstone" - in other words, typical of that population. Best Regards Andrew

[Bachuil]

Dear Andrew, Rob may have a different view, and he is more clued up on this than me, but, as far as I am aware, to date there has not been any documented evidence available. The problem is that people are often keen to claim a closer relationship with their chief than may be the case.  When David became THE hero of the day, EVERYONE was keen to claim a relationship with him! Nevertheless there has always been a strong belief that the families are related.  This is born out because when David’s daughter Agnes needed someone to run Magamero, she approached my grand father, her chief and cousin, for help.  He was killed before his wife and children in a native rising on 23 Jan 1915.  My father was only 3 months old at the time. Regards, Niall