The Boggs-Livingston Mystery Solved!

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Rob Livingston2
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The Boggs-Livingston Mystery Solved!

Post by Rob Livingston2 »

The Boggs families of America and Ireland have long held a tradition that they were originally Scots and their name was originally "Livingston".  Stories have been passed around that "The Boggs" was the name of an estate in Ireland that gave these Livingstons from Scotland their surname.  After a lot of tedious research and a stroke of luck, I believe I have finally resolved the mystery of the origin of "The Boggs" families and their ties to the surname "Livingston", or more correctly, "Levington". It has long been my contention that placenames containing elements such as "Lin", "Len", "Line", "Lyne", etc., are somehow contractions of the element "Levin" - in grammatical terms, possibly a genitive or possessive form of the word.  A good example can be found in Argyll, where we have an early McLea landholding called "Leavinsaig", which alternatively is called "Linsaig". Communities adjacent to "Linsaig" still hold onto the earlier form of this placename element, those being "Leffinchapel", "Lephinmore", and "Lephinbeg". In Midlothian, the village of "Livingston" sits adjacent to "Lin Manor", "Linwater" and "Linhouse" (seen in earlier maps as "Line Water" and "Line House").  On the "Leven" River in Yorkshire, England one finds "Kirk Levington", which in the Domesday Book of the 11th Century is called "Kirk Lentune".  "West Linton" sits on the "Lyne River" in the Scottish Borders, which is where one finds the village of "Skerling" (as in "Livingston of Skerling", a resident of the Isle of Lismore in the 1640s).  "Skerling" is translated as "Shire of Lyne". As I was examining various maps of the area around the "Lyne River" in Cumbria, England (shown on a 1636 map as the Leven River), I bumped into a place specifically called "The Boggs".  Located on an old Roman road to the north of Carlisle and Hadrian's Wall, it is clearly associated with Westlinton to the north, "Kirklinton" to the east, and the old "Parish of Kirklinton".  If you want to see the exact location of "The Boggs", go to http://www.multimap.com and enter (find) "Westlinton".  You will then have to zoom in several times and you'll find it just to the south of "Westlinton".  From the Mannix and Whellan's, "History, Gazetteer, and Directory of Cumberland" - http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/kirklinton.html - printed in 1847, I found the following information. "Kirklinton Parish, Anciently called Kirk-Levington, extends about 11 miles on the south-side of the river Line
Andrew Lancaster4
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The Boggs-Livingston Mystery Solved!

Post by Andrew Lancaster4 »

Dear Rob I see the gremlins have gotten your post! There seems to be a problem lately. Regards Andrew
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Bachuil
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The Boggs-Livingston Mystery Solved! Test

Post by Bachuil »

The Boggs families of America and Ireland have long held a tradition that they were originally Scots and their name was originally "Livingston".
The Baron of Bachuil,
Coarb of St Moluag
Chief of MacLea
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Bachuil
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Passed Test

Post by Bachuil »

I just copied and pasted the whole of Rob's message and posted again - it is all in - lets see if it stays there! Regards, Niall
The Baron of Bachuil,
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Chief of MacLea
Andrew Lancaster4
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The Boggs-Livingston Mystery Solved!

Post by Andrew Lancaster4 »

Hi Everyone I have a disposition which makes me often seem a horrible sceptic when I write. But I should point out that I think Rob's theory could have something in it. It is just that I like to go through every hypothesis with counter arguments. So keep my style in context. I am taking this seriously and trying to set out some more food for thought. 1. I am not an expert on the Boggs/Livingston debates, but I think this is a reminder that I shoulder learn more about them. What I understood before this post was via Rob: a. That the many Boggs families have stories of an old link to Livingstons. b. That this link was that they used to be Livingstons, but they changed name in Ireland. 2. The hypothesis of Rob seems to start from the assumption that (a) is more likely to be true than (b) which is more specific. I would question that. A *specific* story which stays in the story must have an explanation. A vague story can have almost any origin, by definition. In my Livingstone family it is said we are related to Dr Livingstone. Such a specific story can certainly be wrong, but to show whether it is, you constantly have to consider what could have created this story. In our case it is easy. The family may simply have felt they were kin, and may have expressed this to their Australian children. But how do you explain such a specific story as having changed name from Livingston to Boggs in Ireland. 3. I had a quick look around on the internet. While I found that some Boggs genealogists are sceptical about a Livingston link, there are also some who even think a paper trail back to the original Livingston who changed name can be traced. He is said to have been in Derry in the 17th century. I have no idea how this conclusion was arrived at but it certainly seems to make more ancient connections less necessary in order to explain the family story. 4. I am convinced that Rob's placename studies are worthwhile in trying to find links between different Livingston and Maclea groups, but in this case where our starting point is a family story that still exists, it seems hard to imagine that placename studies will correspond to what we are looking for. Family stories passed on verbally generally only go back a few hundred years at the most. For example I consider it possible that my Livingstones even knew that they were highland Livingstones, though they had been in Angus (it seems) for many generations. But the way I understand Rob's theory, the Boggs would not have been Livingstons for a much longer time? 5. The name Boggs for estates strikes me as common. I have Norton ancestors from Co Offaly who lived on a part of an estate referred to as Boggs in records. In Gaelic, I understand that all Kin names refer to bogs? Regards Andrew
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