Wikipedia: Clan McLea not a Clan?

[Kyle2 MacLea]

I just noticed that somebody recently updated the Clan McLea article at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_MacLea The extensive changes made to this article make the statement that the Clan MacLea is a not a Scottish Clan per se with a Clan Chief recognized by the Lord Lyon. This was not my understanding, I was quite surprised to read it! Is this correct?

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Clan_MacLea

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Interesting.

[Rob Livingston2]

Niall will of course be able to answer these questions with greater detail, but it will be noted that the banner that was issued by Lord Lyon to Alastair Livingstone is the banner of a chief of a clan.

[Grant South1]

Hello, It is without doubt that in Scotland, the Law of Arms upholds that the words 'Head' and 'Chief', are both synonymous and interchangable. Similarly the same is true for the words, 'Clan' and 'Family'. Rightfully these terms relate to the 'chefs du famille', or 'Heads of the Family', being the actual origin of the term 'Chief', as used. And so, 'Chief of the Family' and 'Head of the Clan', are of the very same office and dignity, being rightfully co-existent. Accordingly the Lord Lyon has recognised the Baron of the Bachuil, as the 'Head of the Highland Clan MacLea", and has granted the full heraldic additaments of a Scottish Chief, as mentioned by Rob. This is all well established, in both historical record and legal judgement. I hope this helps. All the best!

[Andrew Lancaster4]

I suppose that in such discussion about triaditional meanings it is not irrelevent to point out that chief is Old French for head in the sense of leader. (The original meaning of Latin caput was only the body part, the other meaning came later. In medieval French and Italian, slang words took over for the body part - "testa" meaning something like modern English "mug"). Head and chief have common Indo-European origins. Old Germanic khobhudh -> English head, Dutch hoofd Latin caput -> French chef, Anglo-Norman chief In a modern organisation French "chef" does not of course mean "cook" (a head cook is only "chef" of the kitchen or "cuisine"). Modern French chef would be translated as "head". For example head of a department. As chef and head are still equivalent in modern times in the parlance of organisations, I guess they have stayed somewhat parallel in general European political terminology, especially in places like Scotland and England, where French always had a strong presence. Best Regards Andrew

[Grant South1]

Dear Gentlemen, I believe this may provide greater clarity for us! Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, as the then Lord Lyon wrote. "By the term "chief," we call the representative of the family from the French word chef or head, and in the Irish 'Gaelic', with us the chief of the family is called the head of the clan. The Ceann-cinnidh or clan chief-or more properly the "Head of the Clan"-is thus in nature precisely the same as the chief of the family. Both titles simply denote the living individual who represents the founder of the tribe, and who is the sacred embodiment of the tribe itself." p155 Clans, Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands. 2 Ed. All the best!

[Bachuil]

When ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise. I shall try and sort this at the weekend. Don't let stupid people upset you! N

[Bachuil]

Basically the terminology here is important; one is Chief of a Name, but Head of a Clan.

[Kyle2 MacLea]

One question which did come up in the Wikipedia discussion, and I think is relevant, is this: "The supporters and compartment would be Bachuil's by right because he holds a pre-1587 barony. The standard and pinsel are more indicative of chiefship, BUT appear to be sometimes awarded to barons, see e.g. [5], and the wording "This flag [pinsel] is allotted only to Chiefs or very special Chieftain-Barons for practical use" at the Lyon Court website [6]. Is Bachuil therefore a "very special Chieftain-Baron rather than a chief"?" It seems that the Young Bachuil has given us the further evidence that the Gold Buckle on the Crest of a Pinsel would ONLY be Gold if the person for whom the Pinsel was made was a Chief of a Clan -- and not, therefore, a "special Chieftain-Baron."