McLea heraldry

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Dear Forum: Here's a find that Niall is probably familiar with, but which I hadn't seen before and thought I would post for the interest of others. In An Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms Belonging to Families in Great Britain and Ireland, by John Woody Papworth, Morant. A. W.: Page 874 3 cinquefoils between or within... bordure Arg. 3 cinquefoils gu. M'LEA, Russia; granted 1806; quartering erg. a chev. embattled as. betw. three boar's heads erased gu. all within a bordure dovetailed gu. I was interested to see the Cinquefoils (known lowland Livingston symbol) but also the boar's heads.

[Grant South1]

Hi Kyle, Below is the information which I believe you are looking for. All the best! Grant. Re: An Account of the Name of McLea. N.B. The aforesaid Mr. Duncan McLea , Minster at Dull, had three sons, all ministers at one and the same time in one and same Presbytery, viz. Denoon in Argyleshire, -- John (who was reckoned the bigest man in the Country, in so much that hardly any horse could carry him and he was obliged to sit when he preached), Archibald the present minister of Rothsay in Bute who has no children, and Duncan (17)(now deceast) who left Children, one of whom is now at St. Petersburgh in Russia as an Engineer, in high favour with the Emperor Alexander, who is about to confer some title of Honour upon him in the view of which he wished for having enrolled the proper arms of the name. (Signed) Thos McLea , Writer in Edinburgh.

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Of course, Grant!

[Grant South1]

Hi again! You raise a fine point in regards to a branch of the House of Linsaig showing elements of the lowland Livingstones in their heraldic ensigns. I think this is an important piece in the jigsaw as it is without doubt that the McLeas of Lismore enjoyed a friendship with the Livingstones of Callendar. I find it interesting that McLeas on Bute, with a known descent from Linsaig, would view themselves ca. two hundred years ago within the same orbit. This I believe is representative of the inherent kinship to the McLeas of Lismore and Appin. We have good evidence that the Linsaig group, a branch of the Appin McLeas, extended from the named lands in Cowal, across Gaeldom from Donegal to Bute by the 18thc. I believe the Ewen McClee of ca. 1478 mentioned in the Lamont estate papers as witness to the sasine of the Lamont lands was our direct Linsaig ancestor. Ewen itself is of interest as a forename. The MacEwens of Otter on Loch Fyne, had there Castle just south of Kilfinan and were long held as cousins to the MacLea's, having their lands next to those of Linsaig. Accordingly, I would think it quite probable that the Linsaig McLeas were directly related to the McEwens. Suibhne MacEwen, Clan Chief, gave his Barony of Otter in favour to the son of the Earl of Argyll in 1431-32. This would have been well in the memory of the parents of Ewen MacClee who was living 40 years on, one would think in the next generation.

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Grant, Kyle If I understand correctly the clan's occasional association with lowland heraldric symbols was normal for some time, and the current highland Livingstone achievement is in a sense new (or restored?). The clan's status in the Anglo-Norman style heraldric system was apparently not all that clear for quite a while, and of course neither is the connection with the Livingstone family even to this day. But it is clear that wherever Living was from he was Normanised and his families symbols were of the Norman type. It is also pretty clear that the clan MacLea remained remarkably un-Normanised for a long time. Does that make sense? Regards Andrew

[Kyle2 MacLea]

I think your comments do make sense, Andrew, especially in light of the fact that current Baron McLea's original arms had the Livingston lowland cinquefoil and only in 2002 did they put all the research together and petition for arms in the 'West Highland' style: http://www.scotsheraldry.com/The%20Roll ... McLea2.htm I am much happier with the West Highland arms, but there is a part of me which wonders that if my family is related to family of the Rev. McLea of Bute, and some members of that family definitely matriculated arms in the lowland Livingston mold, by the law of arms if I would be more likely to matriculate my own arms as an indeterminate member of that family, rather than of the family of the Chief.

[Grant South1]

I'll have a wee go at this again, please bear with me. Arms are granted by Lyon according to ones family name. My own arms were granted in this way, as unique to the Name. This is not the same heraldic tradition as found in England, where only the Arms are treated as feudal heritage. In Scotland both the Arms and Name are subjects of feudal heritage. Letters Patent establish the Name as a feudal designation in Arms. Duncan MacLea on Bute holding the name MacLea does not hold the surname Livingstone and so the Livingstone arms,as another Name, would not normally bear on the arms. The Livingstones of Lismore and Appin do hold the surname Livingstone as do the Lvingstones of Callendar who as