James Livingston of Kinderhook

Karen Livingston Bernardo · Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:52 am

In 1728, a James Livingston married a woman named Catherine Kuhn in Kinderhook, New York. Although the couple"s marriage is well-documented and their children are known, no one has been able to discover James" ancestry. Is anyone else on this forum descended from this couple, and has any DNA testing been done?

Pat Traffas · Post by **Pat Traffas** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:59 pm

Where can I find children of James Livingston?

Canadian Livingstone · Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:09 am

Hi Karen, I would suspect that James Livingston of Kinderhook is descended from the Lowland Livingstons that became well established land owners and in the government of colonial New York in both old Dutchess and Albany Counties. Kinderhook was at one time a part of old ALbany County before the American Revolution.I am descended from the highland Maclea/Livingstones on my father's side, but on my MOm's side of the family her great-great-great grandfather was a William Livingston b. in the 1780's of New York State who settled in Upper Canada by about 1832. We that he and his son-in-law Peter Morey who also came up to Upper Canada were born in Albany or Dutchess COunty, NY. I had not done any research linking William to the prominent New York State Livingstons, but have noticed that there is some good histories out there on this New York State Livingston family and their early origins. More than likely there are some well researched family trees for their connected kin in the DUtchess, ALbany, Green and Columbia County areas where I suspect many were in the 1700's and 1800's, but as I said I have got into this area of my family research. My focus has been on my highland Livingstone connection most recently. I can tell you that there are Livingston-McLea kin involved in DNA research and that includes "all" Livingstons both highland and lowland and other families which may have a connection to the highland McLea/Livingstones in our distant past. My understanding is that they are looking for persons descended from the "male line" of Livingstons for DNA. My connection to the highland Livingstones is through a daughter of Miles Livingstone a native of Morvern. I am not involved in this DNA project, but there are others such as Andrew Lancaster and Kyle McLea who are familiar with the Livingstone DNA project and interested in locating Livingstons for this research.

Kyle2 MacLea · Post by **Kyle2 MacLea** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:25 am

Yes, if you are a male with the Livingston/e surname by birth (not adoption, etc.), or you have a male relative with that name who is willing to test, you can join the project and see who your Livingstons are related to within the project, as well as among those other families (and there are many thousands) who have input their DNA signatures into the databases. Definitely recommended! As for the lowland Livingston family of NY, etc., there are several prominent histories out there (others know the names better than me) which may establish the link you're looking for.

Andrew Lancaster4 · Post by **Andrew Lancaster4** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:10 pm

If James is one of the Clermont etc Livingstons, the famous ones, it is asserted by genealogists that they descend from the titled family who possessed Livingston in Scotland. Before coming to Dutch New York, this family had spent time in Holland itself, and hence the integration. I think the connection between this family and Holland was to do with the Calvinist creed. To DNA, I believe that the DNA project has one participant who has a good claim back to this family. I'd prefer to have a confirming test from another branch, as a normal practice. Can we entice your family in? The test is quick and easy and safe and private etc etc, and people should not be put off by the term "DNA". Regards Andrew

Canadian Livingstone · Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:21 pm

Hi Karen, I had suspected that your James Livingston might have been one of Robert Livingston's son or connected to that family as his Livingston Manor was located in what is today Columbia County, New York State which is the County where Kinderhook is located. But I am sorry to say looking through the family trees of Robert Livingstone and his sons John, Phillip, RObert Livingston Jr., Gilbert and William, I just don't see anywhere that he fits into this family unless someone missed him in their research.

Andrew Lancaster4 · Post by **Andrew Lancaster4** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:50 pm

Dear Donald As the clan's Belgian representative, let me give a "don't despair"! Kuhn is a German spelling but the same name is probably more common in the Netherlands as Coen (exact same pronounciation). If there were two Livingstone families with a Dutch connection AND a new york connection, they might be the same, but it might be impossible to prove without using DNA. I can also confirm that we have a good sample of the German protestant "Palentines" who used the name Livingston(e). They remain an open question because they show signs of having come from an area in Switzerland where there were known to be Scots protestants dwelling. What's more their DNA is generally agreed to "look Scottish". In any case the DNA project can compare to both the Clermont NY Livingstons and the Palentine Livingstons. This sounds like a wonderful family for the project, especially from the perspective of our US members. Best Regards Andrew

Canadian Livingstone · Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:24 am

Actually Catharine Kuhn's father was born in 1672 at Huttengesass, Hessen Nausau, Prussia and died about 1715 at Elizaville, NY which some distance south of Kinderhook, but nearby to the Livingston Manor interestingly enough. I researched over the years both colonial Dutch and Germans that resided in New York State in the 1600's and 1700's because I have an ancentral connection to both. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

Canadian Livingstone · Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:50 pm

Hi Karen, You may already know this, but Samuel Kuhn father in law of your ancestor James Livingston is listed in the book "Early Eighteenth Century Palentine Emigration" by Walter Knittle. Included in this book is history of Palentine Settlement, information on Robert Livingston and the settlement of Palentines on his land at Livingston Manor. Also includes some very old German records. One circa 1717 lists Samuel Kun, his wife Elizabeth and 5 children living at Wormsdorf explained as old German name for a village settlement within the "East Camp" on land purchased by Robert Livingston on the east side of the Hudson River. Either Queensbury, Annsbury, Hunterstown or Haysbury. So it is fairly certain that James Livingston's wife grew up in Livingston Manor or on land which Livingston had later purchased for the Palentine refugees. Another list where Samuel appears is the New York Subsistence List which records a Samuel Kuhn and other Palentines from their arrival in 1710 to 1712. This list is known to have included Palentines that were located on Hudson River Settlements so it seems almost certain this is your ancestor as well. You have to take the L.D.S info on Samuel Kuhn with a grain of salt as information indicating that he was from Prussia

Andrew Lancaster4 · Post by **Andrew Lancaster4** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:59 am

It sounds like he might have been a relative of either the Claremont Livingstons, the famous ones, or the Palentine ones, who appear to have originally been Liebensteins from southern Germany and Switzerland. (They may even originally be Scots who went to Zurich during the earliest days of Calvinism.) If so, then we can check this if we can get a descendent of James in the DNA project, because we have both. Best Regards Andrew