Miles Livingstone

A Read-only Archive of the old forum. Many useful messages and lots of family data!
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Miles Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Elizabeth, Thanks for pointing that out. For some reason I thought it was Kenevy. Spelling was never my greatest strength. That was a silly error regarding Fort William from one my earliest postings. I should have said that the party of 60 or so remaining settlers in June of 1815 went to Jack River not Fort William. I dont know why I put down Fort William. Glad you caught that. I would like to correct any mistakes and also update some of the information on these postings as some information regarding my Red River relatives has changed unfortunately I was told I am not able to do that. Please note also that more recent research has revealed that that the other Donald Livingston that travelled with Miles Livingston
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Miles Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Elizabeth, I should also point out that there is list in the Red River records that states that Miles Livingston was from Mull and this of course has been copied into later records. Unfortunately this information was based upon the notion that Miles having been on the ship with the McLean party from Mull was also from Mull. While there plenty of Northern Mull folk on the "Robert Taylor" voyaging from Sligo Ireland in JUne of 1815 to Hudsons Bay there were also a small handfull of settlers from the Isle of Islay including Miles Livingston that are unfortunately forgotten and apparently were in this instance. Miles Livingston and his wife Janet nicknamed Jessie were married on June 20th, 1812 at Bowmore on the Isle of Islay and their minister there indicated that they had boarded the schooner Staffa for America by which he actually meant the Staffa which according all accounts had on it a young assistant of Lord Selkirks named Archibald McDonald whose job was to see that the settlers from Argyllshire arrrived at the port of Sligo, Ireland where prior to June 24th 1812 where Lord Selkirk was waiting to greet them and the Hudson Bay Company vessel Robert Taylor lay waiting to take to them Hudson Bay It should be noted that at the last moment Lord Selkirk decided upon the arrival of the schooner Staffa with Archibald McDonald and the settlers that young Archibald should stay behind for further training and medical education. Selkirk saw some promise in him and decided he would remain in Scotland to receive some medical training and infact Archibald McDonald subsequently was in charge of and travelled with the colonists from Sutherlandshire, Mathesons etc. seeing that they safely arrived at the Red River Settlement. It was unfortunate that Archibald McDonald could not have been the settlement leader instead of the older Miles McDonnell. McDonald expressed concern about Miles McDonnell's apparent lack of leadership abilities. regards, Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Hector McLean

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Elizabeth, Was Catherine the sister of Ann that married Donald Livingston in August of 1812 at York Factory? regards, Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Hector McLean

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Elizabeth, Hope that this information is of help to Livingstons and other connected families of Red River origin. As I said I am interested in joining the society as I share some of the same interests and goals as many of your members. regards, Donald
edith
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Miles Livingstone

Post by edith »

Hi, Donald. First - yes, Catherine and Ann McGillivray (or however it's spelled) were sisters. The Selkirk Assn. book has a long list they call a passenger list for the 1812 party, but it actually is the list of people who expresssed interest in going, but very few of them actually did - you have the actual passenger list. The McGillivrays and the McLeans (Hector and his family, not the more well-off McLean family) were from Mull. Miles, Donald, Jessie,and "my" Donald are listed at the bottom like an afterthought. It says Donald was from Bowmore, Islay, but as I recall, does not say where Miles and his family were from. Another connection - Catherine Livingston, sister to James, Donald and Hugh - married John McLean, brother to Hector. Catherine had come over in 1819 with the rest of the Livingstons. Elizabeth Campbell is the president of the Lord Selkirk Assm of Rupert's Land, and editor of the newsletter, which has had lots of good stories lately. It does not cost very much, and they like to have input from other members, too. Elizabeth also has an online book-selling business. I e-mailed her to tell her there were some responses from that old question of hers. She suggested that when our system is updated, it would be nice to have e-mail messages sent to people when their posting is responded to. People often put questions on several message boards and don't always have time to check them all every day. Edith
Kyle2 MacLea

Miles Livingstone

Post by Kyle2 MacLea »

Agreed--Edith. When we get new Forum software, automatic notification will be one of the options I would like to see.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Miles Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, I am interested in the Red River Society but most of my time with research as you know is occupied with Clan Livingstone. Realistically it would be hard to juggle membership in two societies at this critical time in our history. It is true that Donald Livingston and his Livingston family had lived on the Isle of Islay before he settled at Red River. There is no disputing that fact. The family letters indicate as much and it is also known that there were several colonists recruited for the Red River Colony in the early years who originated on the Isle of Islay though they were greatly outnumbered by those from Northern Mull and of course those from Sutherlandshire. Some family researcher have been perplexed by references to both Isle of Islay and Morven as the origins for our Livingstons. The answer to this is in Miles Livingston's marriage entry in the Kilarrow, Bowmore Isle of Islay parish book the entry dated June 20th, 1812 just a few days before the party under Owen Keveny left for Hudsons Bay. Its states that Miles now aboard the Schooner Staffa was married June 20th, 1812 at Bowmore, Isle of Islay but the minister notes that Miles is not of Bowmore but a "a native of Morven" which is adjacent to the ancestral homeland of highland Livingstone Barons of the Bachuil. Then most recently with the kind assistance of the Manitoba Historical Society i located an affadavit of your great-great-great Uncle Donald Livingston himself in which he gives testimony relating to disturbances at the Red River settlement in 1815 with Duncan Cameron of the North West Company and in this record he reveals that he is also a native of Morven thus confirming my suspicions that your Uncle Donald the boatbuilder and Miles Livingston are both from Morven Livingston families originally and having travelled to Red River and settled together from the Isle of Islay they may well be from related Livingston families. Since Donald was apparently the eldest son of your ancestor Neil Livingston would suspect that his roots are also Morven prior to being in the Isle of Islay. If Donald was born in 1785 and was born in Morven then that also gives us a sense of where his father Neil and presumingly some others of this Livingston branch of the Clan were in the 1780's. So having your Great-great-great Uncle Donald Livingston's affadavit stating that he was a native of Morven was one of the best pieces of information I gathered from the Manitoba Archives for the reasons i mentioned. I would be happy to send a letter to the Red River Society mentioning Donald Livingstons Affadavit regarding his Morven origins if you think it would help. Perhaps Elizabeth could pass on this info. I could dig up all the specifics regarding this old document. regards, Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Miles Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, I have not seen the list you
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Miles Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, Kyle probably has a solution to this. I try to answer all the responses as quickly as possible but I dont know how the e-mail process would work in conjunction wih the forum. Kyle probably has a better understanding than me how that would work. Elizabeth pointed a few errors, one of them a spelling error. It is my hope that one of the improvements to the forum would be the ability to do the odd bit of editing where mistakes as Elizabeth pointed out need to corrected. Sometimes also facts need to be corrected as well as spelling errors. Unlike printed published books we could just update our information on line to give our clan folk the opportunity to correct any errors. I would point out to Elizabeth that in the book "Kildonan on the Red" by Anne Matheson Henderson published by the Lord Selkirk Association that on page 7 the author states that the "first party of settlers left Stromness, Scotland on June 24,1812." Actually Owen Keveny and his group of settlers from Northern Mull, Islay and Ireland left the port of Sligo Ireland aboard the Hudson Bay Company vessel Robert Taylor on June 24,1812. This voyage included Dr Thomas McKeevor who wrote a detailed account of the voyage but did not go with Keveny and the others to Red River after arrriving at York Factory in AUgust of 1812. Also various McLeans from Northern Mull and small group from the Isle of Islay principally carpenter John McVicar, and a few Livingstons one of them being my ancestor Miles. It was the the vessel the Prince of Wales in July of 1811 that stopped at Stromness to pick up some Orkneymen. This was part of the fleet of Hudson Bay Company vessels Eddystone and Edward and Ann that was with Red River Settlement Miles McDonnell journeying to York Factory in the Summer of 1811. regards, Donald
edith
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Miles Livingstone

Post by edith »

Hi, Donald, I'm sorry I didn't get the yesterday (Saturday) messages answered sooner. I printed out the one about the lists so I could study my papers offline, then forgot to do that before I got online again today (Sunday). I was using the term passenger list too loosely. The list printed in the Selkirk Assn. book is the last one you mentioned, the recruit list. It only includes people from Argyll. Only a few of them actually made the trip, but they also picked up some Irishmen before setting out. The list that I said came from you is the one from the Selkirk Papers Vol 2, pages 560-562, the group that was going to the settlement from York Factory. So you are right, it is not a passenger list. Mary sent me that shortly after I began corresponding with her, and she said she got it from you. That would have been maybe four or five years ago, when you copied it for her. I didn't remember the error in "Kildonan on the Red." I think the Selkirk Assn book has the right port of departure. I'll check. I forgot to tell you I got "The Silver Chief" from inter-library loan. It is a good quick summary of Selkirk's work. I guess I gave Elizabeth an unwarranted promotion. I looked at her last newsletter, and it just says she's genealogist and editor - those are big enough jobs. If you go to the lordselkirk.ca website, you might still be able to download that newsletter, and on the last page you'll find Elizabeth's and Chloe's e-mail addresses. They might be under the "contact us" link, too. Chloe spends a lot of time in the archives, and she may already know about Donald's Morvern affadavit, but she might be interested if she does not have it. Edith
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