John Livingstone brother of Dr?

[Andrew Lancaster5]

Some of you will recall that my Australian branch of the family (DNA sample N on Rob's project) has old claims to be related to Dr Livingstone via his uncle John, said to be the father of my ancestor David who immigrated to Australia in the early 19th century. I have not yet located a paper trail, and this is a problem because John was a stationer in Dundee, far away from the Maclea homeland; but I did now receive a copy of a letter containing a story that would make sense. Rob and I had discussed the idea that he may have come to Dundee after a stint in the armed forces during the Napoleonic wars. I now read an old letter which says he had been in the Peninsular war. I am trying to find out what this was based on. If anyone has records from the appropriate army units this would also be very interesting, and might help confirm or deny this story, but keep in mind that a John Livingstone in that period could still have used many different clan family names in official English accounts (Maclea, Maclay, Leving, Livington etc etc) With regards to this whole question of who is related to who, I would also certainly encourage more Livingstones and Macleas to do a Y DNA test via the project Rob co-ordinates, as this will surely be necessary in the end. Not enough paper work exists in Scotland. Best Regards Andrew

[Kyle2 MacLea]

I've read on genealogy lists that it is possible to request military service records for anyone who served in the military for the UK/Commonwealth?  I don't know how to do it but perhaps this might be useful -- or do the records not extend that far? Best, Kyle=

[Andrew Lancaster5]

Dear Kyle I've had some experience in such searches, and am starting on this one. It strikes me as a difficult one though, partly because the big range of names Scots were using at that time, and partly because I frankly think it is unlikely that the records will give all the information I need to link Dundee and Drs family; but in case to do so I am going to have check through the several alternative John Livingstones and Maclays etc. Best Regards Andrew

[Keith Livingstone Australia]

John Livingston (Weaver) and Agnes Edmistone or Edmonston were the named parents of my great great grandfather Gavin Livingston, b 4/1/1835, Livingston Parish. I am awaiting the parish records to see who the grandparents were, but we too seem to be pointing at a John the uncle of David, and some years older than Neil, David's father, for any direct connection that's "traceable". By the way, I have submitted my DNA test too, and my number is 15662.

[RMcV]

I'm interested that John Livingstone was in Dundee.  I must look up the records there on my next visit because I'm already researching another branch of the family that belonged there. I have anecdotal evidence that there were 4 Livingstone brothers at Waterloo-  one of them John.  The Waterloo Muster roll for the 2nd Dragoons (Scot's Greys) has a Private John Livingston. Have you any information on an Alexander?

[Andrew Lancaster5]

Our John was said to be a stationer, and seems to have had a connection to Glamis and/or Kinnettles - perhaps his family had come to work in weaving or at a mill in those areas. I have succeeded in finding a William Livingstone, stationer in Dundee, with the correct connections (it seems) to Glamis, but no John. I should point out that there seem to be several families who claim to descend from John, Dr Livingstone's uncle, but I have no proof that ours is the proper claim. Regards

[Andrew Lancaster5]

By the way, no signs of any Alexanders in our family.

[RMcV]

Thanks. It will be interesting to see what I can find in the Dundee libraries.  Probably some time late April or early May this year.

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Actually, I was wrong. There was an Alexander in Dundee b or bap 12 Jul 1778, and there were Alexanders in Glamis also. I do not know whether any of these link to my own family tree or with each other. It seems to me we can profitably exchange more information as we are studying the same people in the same area. Written in words my mail address is andrew dot lancaster at skynet dot be. I have quite a few register entries for Dundee Livingstones already and would happy to pass them on to you and save you that effort. Here is a summary of the situation... The main Dundee family tree, as originally guessed at by Rob Livingstone, can be updated a bit more because one Dundee baptism register includes a note about who the child was named after his grand father. In generations... --- John (1) Livingston [and according to Rob married 15 Nov 1765 Katherine Finlay of Dundee.] Children proposed by Rob: David(2) born 6 Aug 1766, John(2) born 17 Jul 1768, James born 28 Apr 1776, Alexander born 12 Jul 1778, Katherine born 11 Dec 1780. --- The John born 1768 was probably... John (2) Livingston, weaver (and on son's death certificate a Linen Manufacturer) m. 15 Feb 1793 Christian MacKenzie [Rob wrote Christain MacKewgie, and her son's death certificate says Catherine] Children: -John (3) born 24 Dec 1793, I can confirm that John (2) sr was a weaver in 1793 and John (3) jr was named after his grandfather, so there were indeed 3 generations of Johns. -James born 13 Dec 1810 -David born 19 Jan 1800 (IGI) There was a son of John and Christian named William d. 1868, where he is a 68 year old starcher married to Elizabeth Morris. This William's age strangely matches a William who was the son of another David Livingstone. This William gave his son the middle name Blair, while John, his brother named his daughter Elizabeth Morris L. --- John (3) Livingston weaver (and at death called a factory manager) named after his grand father m. 21 Jan 1819 Lilias Blair of Dundee . This John was certainly the son of another John (according to death certificate) and not David. He was still a weaver in 1834. Children according to Rob : William born 3 Dec 1819, David born 20 Jan 1824, John born 19 Apr 1829, Elizabeth born 19 Apr 1829, James born 7 Oct 1831, and Elizabeth Morris born 5 Feb 1834. ---- ---- Now, I had assumed that William the brother in law of Lilias Blair who I note above as having been the husband of Elizabeth Morris, was the book seller of Dundee. But now I will go through this family, as I now think it works... William Livingstone, weaver who became a book-seller m. 16 Sep 1806 (in Perth) banns 9th and 11th Nov 1806 Kinnoull Christian Laing of Bridge End of Tay, Kinnoull, daughter of Charles, late Wright in Perth I now believe this is the same man I found in the Howff burials: 2099 Livingston William 15 Mar 1853 66 Parish of Glammis Sometime book seller Scrofula Seagate This is of course very interesting for me. Children:- JOHN RICHARDSON LIVINGSTONE Birth: 03 MAY 1811 Christening: 05 MAY 1811 Perth, Perth, Scotland WILLIAM LIVINGSTONE Birth: 09 APR 1809 Christening: 16 APR 1809 Perth, Perth, Scotland JAMES LIVINGSTONE Birth: 25 JAN 1807 Christening: 01 FEB 1807 Perth, Perth, Scotland DAVID LAING LIVINGSTONE Birth: JUL 1818 Christening: 02 JUL 1818 Perth, Perth, Scotland CHARLES LIVINGSTONE Birth: 22 NOV 1820 Christening: 03 DEC 1820 Perth, Perth, Scotland PETER LIVINGSTONE Birth: 20 JAN 1823 Christening: 29 JAN 1823 Dundee, Angus, Scotland GEORGE LIVINGSTON - International Genealogical Index Birth: 30 SEP 1825 Christening: 16 OCT 1825 Dundee, Angus, Scotland ROBERT LIVINGSTONE Birth: 30 AUG 1828 Christening: 14 SEP 1828 Dundee, Angus, Scotland William Livingstone m. Mary Brough I now have a copy of this. As suspected the William who married Mary Brough 4th June 1838 was a book seller at the time of his wedding, and later became a spirit seller. So it seems the profession passed from father William to son, before William junior got into the spirits trade. Mary seems to have been the daughter of a Wm also. Children: JANE LIVINGSTONE Birth: 10 SEP 1854 Dundee, Angus, Scotland BETSY LOW LIVINGSTON Birth: 29 MAR 1856 Dundee, Angus, Scotland ELIZA ANN LIVINGSTON Birth: 18 MAY 1860 Dundee, Angus, Scotland MATILDA RAMSAY LIVINGSTONE Birth: 28 AUG 1851 Dundee, Angus, Scotland ISABELLA LIVINGSTONE Birth: 11 JUN 1840 Christening: 03 SEP 1840 Dundee, Angus, Scotland THOMAS BROUGH LIVINGSTON Birth: 24 SEP 1858 Dundee, Angus, Scotland CECILIA BROUGH LIVINGSTONE Birth: 11 JAN 1853 Dundee, Angus, Scotland CHRISTINA LIVINGSTONE Birth: 05 NOV 1838 Christening: 03 SEP 1840 Dundee, Angus, Scotland JOAN WALKER LIVINGSTONE Birth: 02 OCT 1849 Dundee, Angus, Scotland Christina appears in the 1841 census staying with a family of Broughs. But Dundee 1841 has not been completely transcribed. These in the Howff burials also seem to be his... 2110 Livingstone Catharine 21 May 1843 15 mth Dundee Inflammation of bowels Daughter of Wm. Livingstone, bookseller 2150 Livingstone William 1 Nov 1848 4 Dundee Scarlet fever Son of William Livingstone, stationer St. Paul's Court, Murraygate 2062 Livingston Agnes 29 Mar 1849 3 Dundee Chincough Daughter of William Livingston, bookseller St. Paul's Court, Murraygate 2135 Livingstone Jemina 21 Feb 1854 4 Dundee Measles Daughter of William Livingstone, spirit dealer Meadowside 2148 Livingstone Thomas Brough 13 Oct 1858 2 wks Old Howff 2109 Livingstone Betsy Low 26 Oct 1858 30 mth Old Howff And these may be relations... 2126 Livingstone James 3 Sep 1842 65 Parish of Kinnettles Weaver Apoplexy 2121 Livingstone Euphemia 10 Jun 1852 6 Dundee Croup Daughter of James Livingstone, spirit dealer Meadowside 2081 Livingston Helen 2 Mar 1830 58 Glammis Dropsy 2143 Livingstone Peter 26 Nov 1843 44 Parish of Glammis Vintner Consumption Gellatly Street 2106 Livingstone Ann Lydgate 26 Jun 1839 9 mth Dundee Measles Daughter of Peter Livingstone, vintner New Howff 2075 Livingston Elizabeth 25 Aug 1848 9 mth Dundee Inflammation of bowels Natural daughter of Jemina Smith, seamstress Mason's Lodge Close, Murraygate 2151 Livingstone (Hodge) Mary 5 Oct 1832 55 Glammis Cholera Widow of Wm. Hodge It is in a sense both good news and bad news that I can not find any Glamis register entries for these people (although there are Livingstones in the Glamis registers). On the one hand, David could also be invisible, and on the other, we might never find him. However, that David Laing Livingstone in 1818 in Perth is very interesting. In the period we are talking about there is one couple quite easy to track within Glamis - William and Jannet. But again, I do not know how to link them to anyone else. There are also 2 Livingstone children born in Norfolk, but the index does not say who they were living with. It would be very interesting to me.

[Keith Livingstone Australia]

Hi. I put up a posting earlier; on the 30th December 1857 Gavin Livingston (22yrs) married Catherine McLean (20yrs)in the Free Church of Scotland in Campbelltown Parish. I have a tif file copy of that certificate which names my great great great grandfather as John Livingston (weaver) and his spouse as Agnes Edmonston. Catherine McLean was the daughter of Neil McLean (shoemaker) and Margaret McLean (M.S. Stewart). I have ordered Gavin's birth certificate from 4/1/1835 to see if we can get more information.My email is living@iinet.net.au if you would like me to send you a copy of that file, or perhaps others I have so far. We all seem to be on the same search here.