Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

edith · Post by **edith** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:32 am

Hi, I know this Jesse was a male because I know his wife's name. I have not been able to pinpoint exactly when John and Barbara made their move to the west. The Simcoe Co. history could have been wrong about their moving to Talbot. Maybe others went there, but maybe they went right to Bruce Co., where other members of their family were also. But I don't have any 1861 census reports yet, and I need to find those if I can. I'm finding family members all over - York Co., Middlesex Co., Oxford Co. and others, but all later in the century. Edith

Canadian Livingstone · Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:22 pm

Hi Edith, THe Township Deed index for West Gwillimbury will tell me if and when they sold their property and presumingly went somewhere else. Of course it wont tell me where they went, but you probably will be able to figure that out if you havent already. By the way all the account records for Red River the early years refer to the two Donalds and Donald Livingston Sr. and Donald Livingston Jr. but statement about one being married to Mrs John Pritchards sister made me realize for certain that a. he was Donald Livingston b.1785 and B. Donald Livingston Jr. a laborer and servant for Selkirk could not possibly be the son of your Uncle Donald. Also kenevy's list of arriving settlers in 1812 clearly indicates that Donald Livingston Jr. is not a child but over the age of 16. So at the very least we know from the account records and the Kenevy list that Donald Livingston Jr. was an "adult" employee of Selkirk a laborer by the accounts and not a child of Donald Livingston Sr. as some have concluded. Finally to convince that there is no significance to the Sr. and Jr. designation other than an age difference. The records give us the most important piece of information to solve this mystery the statement that Donald Livingston Jr. was a son of Miles. If there is any doubt to that statement it is removed by the fact that the Selkirk and the colony was using poor Donald as "security' for the debts incurred by his father Miles as he abruptly departed or deserted as Selkirk would have preferred. I was wrong about Donald Livington Jr. and I am sorry for that. regards, Donald regards, Donald

edith · Post by **edith** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:17 am

Hi, I suppose one reason we enjoy this hobby is that it is just one long learning experience. I have learned a lot about history and geography as I have done my family research, as well as correcting some misunderstandings about individual persons. If we knew everything when we started, there would be no reason to take all this time and do all this work. The best I can do on a timeline is that John and Barbara were gone from the West Gwillimbury area by 1840. The Simcoe Co. history says they lived there some years before leaving for Talbot. That certainly is "some years" - anything up to 25. It also occurs to me that the people they left behind may have expected that their destination was Talbot, but they may not actually have gone there. I'm not sure where it is, but I've been told it's in Elgin County. John and Barbara were in what is now Oxford Co., I guess, in 1851. I stil need to do some studying to find out when and where the county lines changed. Their oldest grandson said he was born in 1840 in Woodstock. His parents, Hugh and Susan, were married in 1838, but I do not know if that was at W. Gwillimbury or elsewhere. It would not do me much good to look for the Lloyd family because I don't think there are any census records before then. It's interesting that Jesse Lloyd, Susan's father, was born in Pennsylvania. I'll bet his family were Loyalists. You would know more about this than I do - where do you suppose they would have gone if they had gone from Pennsylvania to Ontario? I'll bet it is more likely they would have gone towards the Elgin County area, as it seems by my map to be closer to Lake Erie than Simcoe Co. is. Edith

John Carroll · Post by **John Carroll** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:18 am

Hi Donald, Sorry I have taken so long to get back on. I have been pretty busy. Thank you for the welcome and the information. I do have a copy of the gravestone photo thanks to The Iowa Historical web site. Actually, I have only known about my ancestors on my dad's side for a few years. He died when I was 3 years old and left precious little information on his family. I did have some names of his half siblings though, and when the internet came along my ex-wife though I should see if I could find out anything about them. Well, I somehow found my way to a Carroll forum very similar to this and WOW! In a couple weeks I found more about my ancestors than I had in 50 years! I still have mostly names and dates, not too much for family stories. I can deduce from birth dates though when and where they moved. The Carroll's came from Ontario, Niagara Falls area between 1852 and 1857. Why they went to Iowa is a mystery. John Lovejoy probably moved there because of the establishment of the Presbyterian Church as he came from a very strong Presbyterian family. Elijah Parish Lovejoy was his older brother. I remembered my older brothers saying that our Uncle Cy Carroll (he was actually my dad's uncle but they were close to the same age)had said that we were decendent from Livingstons and possibly related to the famous Dr David Livingston. I only realized how close they were to being right 40 years later with that episode on the Carroll Forum. As far as any information on the Livingstons, you probably have all that I do and much more. But if you have questions, just post them and I'll be checking in. Thanks again for your help. John

Anette Brigham · Post by **Anette Brigham** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:22 am

Make sure any hyperlinks have a fullstop after them or a space

edith · Post by **edith** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:27 pm

Thank you so much for this information. I have been working on the McBeth/Lovejoy families, and wondered (a) what happened to Mary McBeth (and also her sister Margaret), and (b) who the Fletts were who lived nearby. Now I know part of the answers! I have learned quite a bit about both of John Lovejoy's families, also about Joanna's three brothers and sister Ann. I am the great-great granddaughter of James Livingston, Donald's brother. James and his wife and younger children came to Delaware County, Iowa, in 1838 (contrary to what the histories say, which is 1837), and his oldest daughter, Isabella, and her husband Angus Matheson and first two sons followed in 1840. My grandfather John was born in 1847, the seventh of their eleven children. If you wish to contact me directly, my e-mail address is edith97062(at)yahoo.com. I'd love to know more.

Canadian Livingstone · Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:59 pm

Hi Edith, Speaking of Donald Livingston Have you seen the excellent photo that Jerry has of old Donald Livingstone's 1876 tombstone in Iowa? It is remarkable condition considering the age of the stone. regards, Donald

Canadian Livingstone · Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:55 pm

Hi Anette, Welcome. Your interest in the forum is appreciated and we are pleased to hear that find the discussions informative and helpful to your family research. It has been my experience that many of the folks that visit the forum are in the process of researching their Livingston ancestry. Forum participants include Livingstons, McLeas and related kin world wide in particular, USA, Canada, Great Britain and Australia. As you might have gathered I am a descendant of Miles Livingston b.1775 also a native of Morven who lived for a time on the Isle of Islay with family and kin and who seems to have been a cousin of sorts to your ancestor Donald Livingston also a native of Morven who lived for a time on the Isle of Islay. I did some research on the Red River Livingston last year assessing some more records at the Manitoba Archives. Based upon my latest research it is my understanding that my ancestor Miles Livingston his second wife Janet nicked name Jessie, Livingston, his teenage son Donald Livingston from his first marriage and your ancestor Donald Livingston 1785-1876, a boatbuilder like Miles left the Isle of Islay at port of Bowmore around the 20th of June 1812 by the schooner Staffa and arrived at the port of Sligo Ireland a few days later. At Sligo they met Lord Selkirk and boarded the Hudsons Bay Company vessel, the Robert Taylor which Selkirk had chartered to take them to Hudsons Bay in British North America before they journied by smaller boat to the Red River Settlement. Miles and your ancestor Donald were both skilled boatbuilders and Miles teenage son Donald found work at the settlement as a general laborer according to Red River Settlement records. Miles only worked for about a year for the settlement according to settlement records, opting instead to focus on becoming a settler and establishing a small farm and family along the shores of the Red River. Due to the conflict between the Lord Selkirk's antagonistic settlement representative Miles McDonnell the settlers soon found themselve in conflict with the North west Company and the local Metis and circumstances at the settlement deteriorated to point that Miles, his wife Janet and their two infant children left the settlement in June of 1815. His teenage son Donald remained in the area for a time and continued as a laborer at the Red River Settlement for another year or so until he also after being unable to return to Scotland by ship he decided to go to Montreal. The other Donald your ancestor returned for a brief period at the rebuilt settlement that had been destroyed by the North West Company in 1815 and again in 1816, met Lord Selkirk upon his subsequent arrival and became a loyal and longstanding participant of the settlement known as the principal boatbuilder of the settlement and also served as a constable for the settlement. In 1819 after corresponding with his father and brother, he was joined by his father Neal, his mother, brothers Hugh, James and the rest of the family apparently. At one time I stated that Miles travelled to the Red River Settlement with an older brother Donald in 1812, but after studying the Red River documents I noticed that it does clearly state that one of the two Donald Livingtons that travelled with Miles to the settlement was infact a son of Miles Livingston, so I was wrong on that one. As you probably know your ancestor left the Red River Settlement around 1840 and joined other family members and other Red River Settlers who had previously settled in Iowa a few years earlier. Donald died in 1876 and his tombstone is remarkably in mint condition. Please drop by more frequently and keep us posted as to your Livingston research. We are in the process of building the clan society so we will hopefully have more information on clan membership. We are also in the process of discussing making some changes and improvements to the website and forum. So stay tunes for future developments. regards, Donald

edith · Post by **edith** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:37 am

Yes, I've seen the picture. It does look good. Other stones in that cemetery are broken and unreadable, according to the pictures on the internet.

Roberta Ann · Post by **Roberta Ann** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:28 pm

Hi Edith; You mentioned John Carroll and wrote about his ancestor being an "envoy" to Peru. John Ellingwood Lovejoy, born October 13, 1817 in Albion, Kennebec, Maine.