Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:45 pm

It is too early to be entirely certain but preliminary results from DNA testing suggests that the Maclea ancestors of highland Livingstones that resided for a few hundred years or more in the Mull and neighbouring Morvern area in Western Argyllshire are a distinct closely related group. Three possible scenarios regarding the Mull/Morvern Maclea/Livingstones presented themselves to me and this certainly was one of them and perhaps the most logical when I think of it. It is also clear that other local families several centuries like Mull/Morvern McLeans, McGillverarys and others did not adopt themselves into this distinct Mull/Morvern McLeas group or some of these other old families would show up a close match to the Mull/Morvern McLeas. They dont at least with this particular group. In next few weeks I will be able to know for certain if what I am seeing in the initial test results hold true in the more exacting tests for this specific Mull/Morvern group of Maclea/Livingstone descendants. More DNA testing of Mull and Morvern Maclea-Livingstone descendants will help to define this Mull/Morvern group
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:09 pm

Now is important to consider when looking at ones Mull/Morvern Maclea Livingstone roots that Mull and Morvern are the ancestral homeland of Mcleans and Macgillverays and that in all likelihood our ancient Maclea ancestors may not have lived at Mull or Movern for more than a few centuries. One Morvern Livingstone family related to the famous Donald Livingstone (1728-1816)hero of Battle of Culloden stated that their Movern Livingstones arrived there in the 1600's from Benderloch. Apart from this I have not found any historic information as when our people took up settlement in Mull and Morvern. Certainly it is known Macleas had lived for centuries in the nearby ancestral areas of Appin , Lismore and the adjacent vicinity. There is however no way of knowing when other Maclea ancestors of the Mull/Morvern Livingstones first made their home at Mull and Morvern. regards, Donald
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Roberta Ann » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:55 am

Hi Donald; Re:
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:39 am

Hi Roberta, McGillverarys are a very old family in the Morvern and Mull area. The point I was making about the old local families is the DNA test seem to confirm a very old Maclea Livingston family group that is Maclea to be sure and not an adopted family from the area. Just because a Maclea is named Maclea doesnt mean the ancestor was a Maclea or just because a Campbell is named Campbell doesnt mean that their ancestor was Campbell. There is always the possibility of ancient adoption would royally mess up the whole process. Fortunately this does not appear to be the case with your ancestor and mine. By this I am refering to your ancestor and mine the results from the DNA test of Mull Livingstons including yours and my Morvern Livingston cousin. Just thought you would be interested in the latest exciting DNA results regarding Mull and Morvern Maclea Livingstons. Once we get more of the Mull and Morvern Livingstons this will become more clear but this is definitely a good start. IT seems quite likely that a number of the Cape BReton Livingstones with Mull origin will match up with you and in addition possibly my Livingston family from Morvern. regards, Donald
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Jewel Brown1 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:42 am

Hello Donald,
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:44 pm

Hi Jewel, There may be spelling variations in some of the old record however I am a bad speller. We Livingstones of Western Argyll are indeed related through marriage with a number of the a local families, MacGilverarys, McColls, McNicols, Carmichaels, McLeans, Campbells etc. Actually McGillverays are one of the oldest families in the Mull or Movern area, but the point I was making had nothing to do with this family but with the potential problem to DNA research if one's clan ancestor was adopted into the clan in the middle ages for example and was not a McLea. I am not saying this has happened but in any clan doing DNA it is always a possibility. The most important point I was making was that initial DNA tests seem to be indicating that your ancestor and some other Cape Breton Mull settlers and some Aussies all seem to be closely related to my ancestor Miles Livingston a native of Morvern according to a recent DNA test. At this stage what this may mean is that you, Roberta and a number of other Cape Breton Mull Livingstones shared a common ancestor possibly a few hundred years to several hundred years in Western Argyll. This should not be too surprising that a Morvern Livingstone family should be possibly descended from the same ancient Maclea ancestor as some Northern Mull Livingstones. As I am trying to locate decendants of the famous Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary Mull who rescued the Stewart of APpin banner at the Battle of CUlloden or his brohter Hugh (Ewen) it will be helpful to have at least one Morvern area family tested and have a sense of how this one Morvern Livingstone family (mine) connects with some of the neighbouring Mull Livingstones. To my way of thinking whenever we come close to match in the project it is a good thing. And of course I would happy to find out I was a long lost cousin of you and Roberta.
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:53 pm

Sorry I meant I am looking for descendants of Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary, Morvern. regards, Donald
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:21 pm

If some of these Mull/Morvern Maclea Livingstones are descended from Achnacree/Benderloch Macleas that settled in this area in the late 1500's or early 1600's or earlier it would make sense. In the 1500's as Baron Livingstone observed they were nearly wiped out fighting with their allies the
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Roberta Ann » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:11 am

Hi Donald: I was printing the 1841 Fort William Census today and I noticed so many Livingstons had their grandchildren or nieces and nephews living in the same household.
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Mull and Neighbouring Morvern Maclea/Livingstones related

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:47 am

Hi Roberta, McInnis is an old Movern family also. A large number of McInnis Clan settled in Nova Scotia I noticed. I greatly miss old Donald McInnis past President of the McInnis society who was an expert on all things to do with Donald Livingstone of Savary Morvern. He and his clan was proud of is historic contribution at the Battle of Culloden in 1746 and by the fact that Donald's mother was a McInnis. I also thought his wife was also a McInnis but I am not certain of that. The current leadership of Clan McInnis has been working with us to resolve the Culloden Battlefield marker issue and have been quite helpful in this regard. Ultimately if we get some more Movern Livingston descendants to particpate in the DNA project I may be able to determine whether or not my ancestor was kin to famous Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary, Movern or his brother Hugh (Ewen). Some of Hugh's family apparently settled in Ohio and New York State in the 1800's. Daryll Povey of Australia is descended from Adam Livingston the miller of Savary and as a Savary Livingston is belived to be kin the famous Donald Livingston. INterestingly Miles was a name quite popular with the Savary Movern McInnes family and this with the fact that my Miles Livingston ancestor stated he was born at Morvern in his 1812 marriage record makes we wonder if Miles himself is not decended from this famous Livingstone family and the McInnes from Savary. Presumingly Miles is from Savary or one of the other villages along the Morvern coast. These villages were all put to the torch by the British Navy during the 1745 rebellion as the British believed the local people to be Jacobite rebels. As I mentioned earlier we face the challenge in our study of our ancestors by the fact that from time to time they migrated to other settlement area in Western Argyll so it difficult to say where they lived 500 years. I do have some idea where they lived 200 years ago however and these test results will help to confirm that. The Mull group will however find matches with Livingstones potentially who settled in different parts of Scotland be it Fort William, or Glasgow in the lowlands. Lowland Scotland in the census records of the 1800's is full of highland Scots from highland parishes or whose parents were born in highland parishes. The 1850 census of Scotland verified that when I checked out the birth places listed of the Livingstons throughout the industrialized lowland areas of scotland. I would have thought that the Fort William Livingston would have originated from settlements along the eastern edges of our ancestral locations rather than Mull. But some of the Achnacree Benderloch livingstones or Macleas could have ended up in Fort William and perhaps they match the Mulll Movern livingstones perhaps being ancestrally connected long ago. At the 25 marker level that I just looked at it could be a great number of generations ago where the match is coming from. So I think as Andrew said to me we should follow this interesting possible connection and get more Mull and Movern/ Cape Breton/PEI Livingstones tested to see if we can build something out of the Livingstons that are a close match. I will be watching to see if your brother is still a close match to my cousin at the 37 and 67 level this month. That would be interesting. I am convinced by what you have told me about your ancestor he is from Mull. Almost certain. His connection to Staffa enough for him to name his land grant after a local tourist attraction in Kilninian and Kilmore Parish and the fact that his boat took off from Tobermory in Mull makes believe him to a Mull native. I admit I could be wrong but the strongest evidence so far suggests this to be probably true. A comprehensive study of orgins of Livingtons and related families who left from Tobermory to settle in PEI and Cape Breton I think would show that Mull was a major origin point. I have more info on Barry Judson's ancestor John Livingston Sr. and will add that to what we have learned so far to create a hypothetical family tree of the first Livingston family that settled at Mull River, Inverness County, Cape Breton in the 1820's from Mull. Apparently according to the local history a number of Mull families settled in this area in the 1820's. regards, Donald
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