MacIvor Connection?

[Donald Livingstone Clink]

John Molmore Vic Kevir mentioned in the 1544 Charter of Confirmation if I understand correctly is of the MacIvor clan,Duncan Maconlea of Bachuil's ancestor and that of the present Baron. This John McIvor's rights and privileges as keeper of the staff of St Molaug is recognised and confirmed by Achibald Campbell Earl of Argyll and in his position of Lord of Lorne the McIvors of Bachuil him as their superior. As Montcrief notes this McIvor may have had some military position in Argyll's army and the staff may have been carried by McIvor into battles undertaken by the Campbells as a source of protection against their highland enemies. Interestingly enough in more recent times, the staff for a time did end up with the Campbell family, before it was eventually returned to the Livingstones.

[Bachuil]

Donald, There are two major points here. First, the 1544 reference to

[Donald Livingstone Clink]

I had not considered that the Vic Kiver was not a last name. The fact that there is a 1518 record regarding the Isle of Lismore that mentions a Duncan Maconlea and the staff, should have made me realize that it was unlikely that the Mac Ivors could possibly have been Barons of Bachuil. Occasionaly in family research I come up with a wild hunch and sometimes its worth pursuing, but in this case I think not.

[Bachuil]

Donald, Your question is fairly fundamental. You see, there are two options:

[Donald Livingstone Clink]

Obviously the Baron and yourself have pondered the origins of your Maconlea ancestors on the Island for some time and done an extraordinary amount of research on the subject. I also really enjoyed Moncrieff's lengthy coverage of the Livingston family from his clan book, the 1909 Celtic Review articles and the K.W Grant book on Western Argyle from 1925. Of all the accounts I have read on the family origins, yours makes the most sense to me and I do support the notion that there is a Macdhunsleeve or Macdhunliebhe of Ulster origin to your Maconlea's origins. I had not considered a family connection to St. Molaug, but one certainly could have existed. There are some things that to my mind are 100% certain. No doubt Duncan Maconlea's ancestors were at Bachuil for several generations and the 1544 document and other sources tells us that the Maconleas were during the middle ages Baron's of Bachuil and that some of the family had been priests or bishops, perhaps family members had been involved in the construction of the Cathedral in the 1200's as they had been apparently with the Castle where the Argyll bishops evidently resided. I wonder if the the Duncan Maconlea that signed the 1518 document with a Campbell was infact the Baron of Bachuil at the time and his son and successor was this John Molmoire Vic Kivar alias John (Miles) Maconlea. Presumingly the two Miles Livingstones that appear in the 1770's in the Parish records on the Island and for that matter possibly my ancestor Miles Livingstone were given a first name that had some connection to a Miles Livingstone or Miles Livingstones that had been of some prominence on the Island of Lismore during the middle ages or a little later. I have heard rumours that there was a Miles Livingstone in the area in the 1500's from my late cousin William Livingston Clink but have not been able to locate any info on him.

[Rob Livingston2]

[Donald Livingstone Clink]

Lot of possibilities to consider. Niall's explanation about the Maconlea last name not included in the 1544 charter makes alot of sense granted that it was common practice not to include it. I was curious about the Baron at that time being referred to as John Maolmoire Vik Kiver and thought that might suggest he had some family connection to the McKiver (MacIvor) Clan. Niall has pointed out that he and others from the Island do not see that indicating the family has connection to the MacIvor clan. I am not certain how the Henry comes into play there, but neither do I see strong evidence of any McIvor connection. I noted earlier that the McIvors in Argyll in 1685 were compelled by the Campbells to change their name to Campbell and I found that interesting at the time as I looking into the Maconleas changing their name to Livingstone. THe one thing that I have come to realize about the 1544 charter is that the Maconleas on Bachuil weren't in a constant war like footing against the Campbells. Although Maconleas in the area did join up with their ancient allies the MacDougalls from time to time to battle it out with the powerfull Campbells, in the early to mid 1500's anyways we see the Maconleas of Bachuil recognised by the Campbells as the heriditary keepers of the Staff of St. Molaug with ancient land rights and a family of some importance in the area. It would seem that it was Archibald Campbell's desire to recognise Maconleas of Bachuil and have them recognise his authoritity in the region. As well they were the standard bearers Sigifero Nostro of the staff of St. Moluag which was of great importance to the Campbells and probably the Baron was considered to be the standard bearer for the Campbells.

[Grant South1]

Dear Rob, Thank you for your posting. I am particularly interested in your view on the Picts. The Pictish Royal House of Orc [Tribe of the Boar] used the boar as its totemic symbol. The line of Suibhne MacDunslebhe also record the boar in their Armorial Bearings, suggesting a probable descent from this Pictish Royal House. I note that St Moluag, was known as the Preceptor to the Picts and that as mentioned Cnoc Aingael on Lismore is a neolithic sacred site, dedicated to fire/light. 1. Moragh Mac

[Bachuil]

Happy Easter everyone. I am just back from Lismore and communion in Kilmoluag. Names I think it is important to bear in mind the changes taking place in the 1600s on Lismore

[Rob Livingston2]

I have to concede to Niall on this argument - but by doing so, it brings into question most other early references we have to people bearing the epyonym "McDunslave", including "James McDunslaphe", the recipient of lands in Kintyre in 1312.