Been a long. long time since I was here-James Livingston (1798 NY -1879 Iowa) who was once thought to be from James Livingston and Catherina Kuhn but learned through DNA is from the Parker/Livingston group.
I wanted to let you all know that today I have ordered the Big Y for my cousin Clifton who was the one who tested with FTDNA (kit number 859653). Posting this under new topic so I can readily find it away from the James Livingston and Catherina Kuhn topic.
HIs closest match at 111 markers is a descendant of Chauncey Livingston (d. 1822 Pennsylvania, kit # 454563, Haplogroup R-FT88468 ) at 3 steps.
I'll post results when they come in.
Thanks,
Roberta Gilbert
Parker/Livingston
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Parker/Livingston
Hi Roberta,
Welcome back to the forum. It has been quiet here and sorry I missed your message.
Look forward to learning more regarding the Y DNA and BiG Y results of your cousin Clifton Livingston. ancestral origins. Your best guide to understanding Clifton's Y DNA results is the log in the results page. There seems to be a Parker Livingstone match listed beside the marker results of a descendant of James Livingston b.1798 New York Stated died 1879 Iowa on a public access colourized familytreedna Match group page with a Misc. Livingston match group on that site, but if you do a relatively simple marker by marker comparison of the Parker Livingstone's 67 marker results with the descendant of James Livingston b.1798 of New York State or any other Livingston matching with the Parker Livingstone group the marker results are quite noticeable different unfortunately. Takes a few minutes but if you get a piece of paper and just compare the marker results of the descendant of James Livingston b. 1798 in that misc. Livingston match group with the Parker Livingstone listed beside his results with the kit number 359959. This person is no longer living but I know his relative from the Forum over the years whom I understand encouraged him to do the test. He is however should not be I think listed in that misc listing as he is actually listed with another cousin of his also descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 as well as my own Livingston cousin also no longer living who I had tested via Famllytreedna years ago and was a close match also with the two descendants of Colin Livingston b. 1818-1867 though my Livingston ancestor and that of my cousin I had tested are not of Mull ancestry but of neighbouring Morvern Argyll ancestry. I don't wish to simplify YDNA testing because I am aware of the complexities but taking a few minutes with a piece of paper to compare marker by marker test results is one quick and easy way of quickly detecting significant genetic differences and I think if you did a marker by marker comparison with Clifton's results with any of the Parker Livignstone's 67 or 111 marker results with a pen and paper and the highlight the marker number differences it reveals how different Clifton's results are with all of the Parker Livingstones including the two Livingstons that were tested who were descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 who was born in Mull, Argyllshire settled with parents firstly in the Mull River and later nearby Whycocomagh area of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and later Colin located on a farm in neighbouring Prince Edward Island, Canada where he died in 1867. I have been in touch in the past with Colin's descendant who for many years was a participant of this Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum and like myself for fortunate to be able to find relatives who we were able to get tested to enable us to get some sense of our Livingstone family origins in Argyllshire, Scotland. My Livingston cousin although matching relatively close with Livingstons of known Mull Livingston family was a closer match with Livingstons matching with the Parker Livingston group that had were known to be of neighbouring Morvern Parish Argyll ancestry which made sense to me given that my great great great grandfather Livingston's 1812 marriage record stated that he and his wife were both "natives of Morvern". The closest match of my cousins was a genetic distance of 1 with 67 markers tested and this livingston's ancestor was according to his eldest child's birth record of Killudine, Morvern Parish. Another of Livingston of Morvern Argyll ancestry descended from a Hugh Livingston of Savary, Morvern brother of the old Jacobite soldier from Savary, Morvern Donald Livingstone was a match with my Livingston cousin at a genetic distance of 3 with 67 markers tested which indicated that great-great great grandfather's Miles Livingston's family must have linked to old Donald's Savary, Morvern Maclea Livingston ancestors who according to old Donald Livingstone's elderly nieces who settled in America, located in Savary, Morvern by about 1600. It is said that they were originally Macleas who resided in nearby Achnacree. The Achnacree Maclea had been years earlier nearly wiped out by their Campbell enemies in the 1500's which may motivated them later to relocate to Morvern where friendlier clans like the Camerons and Macleans and others were located.
I am quite familiar with the Parker Livingstone Group having had years ago a Livingston cousin also tested with Familytreedna and he was a match with this Livingston Y DNA Match group mainly of Livingstons of Highland Western Argyllshire ancestry Maclea-Livingstones. Are you certain that Familytreedna is stating on a match page that Clifton is a match with Livingstones of Argyllshire origin matching with the Parker Livingstone Group?
There is one Parker Livingston match I am very worried may confuse things I have noticed and it listed beside Clifton's marker results on that online Livingstone/Maclea Y DNA colourized Chart under a Misc. Livingston match group part of FamilyTreeDNA colourized chart easily accessible online. Clifton's marker results as you know fall under Misc. group of Livingstons on that colourized chart. No. 359959 on that colourized online FamilyTreeDNA chart however descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 should not be listed I don't think with that Misc. Livingston group with Clifton but with hid other cousin also descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 who was also tested and others included my own Livingston cousin included on the FamilyTreeDNA login match page. He should not have been listed beside Clifton's results on that colourize page but as probably know he is not listed with Clifton's results on his log in match page by Family tree because he is closely matched with the Parker Livingstone group and not with those matching with Clifton I am sorry to say. The Parker Livingstone match group results that are included on that colourlized online access match group chart only includes a small number of over 25 Livingstons matching with the Parker Livingstone Group which includes my own Livingston cousin I had tested years ago. I know the gentleman who encouraged his two Livingston cousins descendants of Colin Livingston 1818-1867 of Mull, Argyll to be tested one of which whose marker results are listed beside Clifton's marker results on the easy access family tree colourized online chart. I am happy to help sort this all out next time you post on this forum.
From what you mentioned early on about Clifton Livington's matches I think there were some clues pointing to another Livingston origin scenario. Scotch Irish. I know quite a bit about the Scotch Irish. Livingstons were likely among the Ayrshire families in the early 1600's who settled in County Down and other counties in Ulster during the Plantation Period. Later many of the descendants of some of these families ended up settling in Pennsylvania and elsewhere in Colonial America in the 18th century prior to the American Revolution. An American researcher David Dobson notes that records indicate there were Livingstons residing in Ayrshire in the 1600's. I am not certain that your ancestors were connected to those Ulster Ireland Scotch Irish who settled in America prior to the American Revolution or from a lowland Livingston family of lowland South western Scotland who like shares the same Y DNA as one of the Livingston families that settled in Ulster, Ireland in the 1600's. As I get older and have been at this Livingstone research over these many years a better understanding of the little understood Livingston family or families of lowland South Western Scotland Ayrshire for example is my last major and most difficult research goal. David Dobson a published researcher located a number of Livingstons in Ayrshire in the 1600's records and I am pretty certain there were likely Livingstons in Ayrshire and elsewhere in South Western Scotland before that. The one Ayrshire Livingstone I am searching fro however does not seem to be a match with your Livingston family but with another LIvignston family who has done the familytreedna test. Any close results that appear on Clifton's log in familytreedna match page are the most reliable source to work with. Work with his matches and compare Clifton's SNP results with those in his Famllytreedna Log in match group when you they are completed. I have studied the 3 main Livingston YDNA match groups in particular of Livingston known Highland Argyllshire origin and have seen some SNP results from each group and it easily shows just how unrelated they are actually. SNP testing has actually helped to show how unrelated certain Livingston families which in the past we presumed might be closely related were not. Contrary to what some may think when the SNP results are so strikingly different you don't have to be a qualified genetics expert to detect the significant genetic differences.
It has been a while. I have been trying to refresh may memory regarding your ancestors, past research and realize you have moved away from the earlier theories regarding a family connection with James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn. I am therefore focusing on James Livingston and Roby Martin and your connection to them through their son Giles Livingston.
"James Livingston (jr) born 1796 Columbia Co., NY died in Iowa; married Roby Martin born abt 1801 Massachusettes
Giles R. Livingston born 18 Sep 1834 Courtland County NY died 18 Mar 1909 Sioux City, Nebraska buried Floyd Cemetary, Sioux City, Nebraska; married 6 Jul 1857 Cyrena Nancy LaForce born 20 Oct 1841 Coldwater, Branch County, MI died 3 Aug 1920 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS buried Mount Hope, Kansas City, KS
Evalyn Ida Livingston born 27 Aug 1872 West Union, Fayette County, IA died 13 Jan 1937 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS; married 19 Jul 1890 Danbury, Woodbury County, IA to Ulysses Grant Hackathorn born 11 Apr 1870 New Matamoras, OH died 31 Jan 1914"
Some info no doubt you are already familiar with.
1850 U.S. Census McHenry County, Illinois Between 1842 and 1850 Gile's parents, James born New York State and Ruby (Roby?) Livingston b. Massachusetts, Giles and rest of the family arrive in Hebron, McHenry County, Illinois from New York State
1860 U.S. Census James Livingston born Connecticut? and his wife Ruba "Ruby"? born New York State are residing in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa
Giles Livingston, his wife Serena are also residing in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa
1870 U.S. Census James Livingston and his wife "Roby""? said to be both born in Massachusetts?
1900 U.S. Census states that Gile's Livingston's Father was born in New York State and Mother in Rhode Island rather than Massachusetts
James Livingston and his wife Roby Martin of Cortland County, New York State settled in Hebron, McHenry County, Illinois sometime between 1842 and 1850. In 1851 they relocated with their family in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa where James and Roby Livingston died sometime after the 1870 Census was taken I assume. Their children were definitely born in Cortland County, New York State. There is 19th century Iowa Obituary confirmation of that.
Glad to see you have not given up your research efforts.
regards,
Donald
Welcome back to the forum. It has been quiet here and sorry I missed your message.
Look forward to learning more regarding the Y DNA and BiG Y results of your cousin Clifton Livingston. ancestral origins. Your best guide to understanding Clifton's Y DNA results is the log in the results page. There seems to be a Parker Livingstone match listed beside the marker results of a descendant of James Livingston b.1798 New York Stated died 1879 Iowa on a public access colourized familytreedna Match group page with a Misc. Livingston match group on that site, but if you do a relatively simple marker by marker comparison of the Parker Livingstone's 67 marker results with the descendant of James Livingston b.1798 of New York State or any other Livingston matching with the Parker Livingstone group the marker results are quite noticeable different unfortunately. Takes a few minutes but if you get a piece of paper and just compare the marker results of the descendant of James Livingston b. 1798 in that misc. Livingston match group with the Parker Livingstone listed beside his results with the kit number 359959. This person is no longer living but I know his relative from the Forum over the years whom I understand encouraged him to do the test. He is however should not be I think listed in that misc listing as he is actually listed with another cousin of his also descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 as well as my own Livingston cousin also no longer living who I had tested via Famllytreedna years ago and was a close match also with the two descendants of Colin Livingston b. 1818-1867 though my Livingston ancestor and that of my cousin I had tested are not of Mull ancestry but of neighbouring Morvern Argyll ancestry. I don't wish to simplify YDNA testing because I am aware of the complexities but taking a few minutes with a piece of paper to compare marker by marker test results is one quick and easy way of quickly detecting significant genetic differences and I think if you did a marker by marker comparison with Clifton's results with any of the Parker Livignstone's 67 or 111 marker results with a pen and paper and the highlight the marker number differences it reveals how different Clifton's results are with all of the Parker Livingstones including the two Livingstons that were tested who were descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 who was born in Mull, Argyllshire settled with parents firstly in the Mull River and later nearby Whycocomagh area of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and later Colin located on a farm in neighbouring Prince Edward Island, Canada where he died in 1867. I have been in touch in the past with Colin's descendant who for many years was a participant of this Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum and like myself for fortunate to be able to find relatives who we were able to get tested to enable us to get some sense of our Livingstone family origins in Argyllshire, Scotland. My Livingston cousin although matching relatively close with Livingstons of known Mull Livingston family was a closer match with Livingstons matching with the Parker Livingston group that had were known to be of neighbouring Morvern Parish Argyll ancestry which made sense to me given that my great great great grandfather Livingston's 1812 marriage record stated that he and his wife were both "natives of Morvern". The closest match of my cousins was a genetic distance of 1 with 67 markers tested and this livingston's ancestor was according to his eldest child's birth record of Killudine, Morvern Parish. Another of Livingston of Morvern Argyll ancestry descended from a Hugh Livingston of Savary, Morvern brother of the old Jacobite soldier from Savary, Morvern Donald Livingstone was a match with my Livingston cousin at a genetic distance of 3 with 67 markers tested which indicated that great-great great grandfather's Miles Livingston's family must have linked to old Donald's Savary, Morvern Maclea Livingston ancestors who according to old Donald Livingstone's elderly nieces who settled in America, located in Savary, Morvern by about 1600. It is said that they were originally Macleas who resided in nearby Achnacree. The Achnacree Maclea had been years earlier nearly wiped out by their Campbell enemies in the 1500's which may motivated them later to relocate to Morvern where friendlier clans like the Camerons and Macleans and others were located.
I am quite familiar with the Parker Livingstone Group having had years ago a Livingston cousin also tested with Familytreedna and he was a match with this Livingston Y DNA Match group mainly of Livingstons of Highland Western Argyllshire ancestry Maclea-Livingstones. Are you certain that Familytreedna is stating on a match page that Clifton is a match with Livingstones of Argyllshire origin matching with the Parker Livingstone Group?
There is one Parker Livingston match I am very worried may confuse things I have noticed and it listed beside Clifton's marker results on that online Livingstone/Maclea Y DNA colourized Chart under a Misc. Livingston match group part of FamilyTreeDNA colourized chart easily accessible online. Clifton's marker results as you know fall under Misc. group of Livingstons on that colourized chart. No. 359959 on that colourized online FamilyTreeDNA chart however descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 should not be listed I don't think with that Misc. Livingston group with Clifton but with hid other cousin also descended from Colin Livingston 1818-1867 who was also tested and others included my own Livingston cousin included on the FamilyTreeDNA login match page. He should not have been listed beside Clifton's results on that colourize page but as probably know he is not listed with Clifton's results on his log in match page by Family tree because he is closely matched with the Parker Livingstone group and not with those matching with Clifton I am sorry to say. The Parker Livingstone match group results that are included on that colourlized online access match group chart only includes a small number of over 25 Livingstons matching with the Parker Livingstone Group which includes my own Livingston cousin I had tested years ago. I know the gentleman who encouraged his two Livingston cousins descendants of Colin Livingston 1818-1867 of Mull, Argyll to be tested one of which whose marker results are listed beside Clifton's marker results on the easy access family tree colourized online chart. I am happy to help sort this all out next time you post on this forum.
From what you mentioned early on about Clifton Livington's matches I think there were some clues pointing to another Livingston origin scenario. Scotch Irish. I know quite a bit about the Scotch Irish. Livingstons were likely among the Ayrshire families in the early 1600's who settled in County Down and other counties in Ulster during the Plantation Period. Later many of the descendants of some of these families ended up settling in Pennsylvania and elsewhere in Colonial America in the 18th century prior to the American Revolution. An American researcher David Dobson notes that records indicate there were Livingstons residing in Ayrshire in the 1600's. I am not certain that your ancestors were connected to those Ulster Ireland Scotch Irish who settled in America prior to the American Revolution or from a lowland Livingston family of lowland South western Scotland who like shares the same Y DNA as one of the Livingston families that settled in Ulster, Ireland in the 1600's. As I get older and have been at this Livingstone research over these many years a better understanding of the little understood Livingston family or families of lowland South Western Scotland Ayrshire for example is my last major and most difficult research goal. David Dobson a published researcher located a number of Livingstons in Ayrshire in the 1600's records and I am pretty certain there were likely Livingstons in Ayrshire and elsewhere in South Western Scotland before that. The one Ayrshire Livingstone I am searching fro however does not seem to be a match with your Livingston family but with another LIvignston family who has done the familytreedna test. Any close results that appear on Clifton's log in familytreedna match page are the most reliable source to work with. Work with his matches and compare Clifton's SNP results with those in his Famllytreedna Log in match group when you they are completed. I have studied the 3 main Livingston YDNA match groups in particular of Livingston known Highland Argyllshire origin and have seen some SNP results from each group and it easily shows just how unrelated they are actually. SNP testing has actually helped to show how unrelated certain Livingston families which in the past we presumed might be closely related were not. Contrary to what some may think when the SNP results are so strikingly different you don't have to be a qualified genetics expert to detect the significant genetic differences.
It has been a while. I have been trying to refresh may memory regarding your ancestors, past research and realize you have moved away from the earlier theories regarding a family connection with James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn. I am therefore focusing on James Livingston and Roby Martin and your connection to them through their son Giles Livingston.
"James Livingston (jr) born 1796 Columbia Co., NY died in Iowa; married Roby Martin born abt 1801 Massachusettes
Giles R. Livingston born 18 Sep 1834 Courtland County NY died 18 Mar 1909 Sioux City, Nebraska buried Floyd Cemetary, Sioux City, Nebraska; married 6 Jul 1857 Cyrena Nancy LaForce born 20 Oct 1841 Coldwater, Branch County, MI died 3 Aug 1920 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS buried Mount Hope, Kansas City, KS
Evalyn Ida Livingston born 27 Aug 1872 West Union, Fayette County, IA died 13 Jan 1937 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS; married 19 Jul 1890 Danbury, Woodbury County, IA to Ulysses Grant Hackathorn born 11 Apr 1870 New Matamoras, OH died 31 Jan 1914"
Some info no doubt you are already familiar with.
1850 U.S. Census McHenry County, Illinois Between 1842 and 1850 Gile's parents, James born New York State and Ruby (Roby?) Livingston b. Massachusetts, Giles and rest of the family arrive in Hebron, McHenry County, Illinois from New York State
1860 U.S. Census James Livingston born Connecticut? and his wife Ruba "Ruby"? born New York State are residing in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa
Giles Livingston, his wife Serena are also residing in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa
1870 U.S. Census James Livingston and his wife "Roby""? said to be both born in Massachusetts?
1900 U.S. Census states that Gile's Livingston's Father was born in New York State and Mother in Rhode Island rather than Massachusetts
James Livingston and his wife Roby Martin of Cortland County, New York State settled in Hebron, McHenry County, Illinois sometime between 1842 and 1850. In 1851 they relocated with their family in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa where James and Roby Livingston died sometime after the 1870 Census was taken I assume. Their children were definitely born in Cortland County, New York State. There is 19th century Iowa Obituary confirmation of that.
Glad to see you have not given up your research efforts.
regards,
Donald
-
Roberta Gilbert
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:05 pm
Re: Parker/Livingston
Cousin Clifford's Big Y has him in R-FT88468, with two other members: David R. Shue (descendant of Chauncey Livingston d. 1822 Pennsylvania) and Joshua Kubichek (who has listed no ancestor) with 2 private variants. Whatever that means.
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Parker/Livingston
Hi Roberta,
Hope you are keeping well. Nice to have someone back at the forum like the old days. Been a bit quiet here lately I can see.
There is some minor or greater differences to some degree among Parker Livingstone group matches depending on their genetic distance to one another expressed in a variation of the marker results but this is a sample of a typical Parker Livingstone 67 marker result in this case that my Livingstone cousin I had tested yeas ago. This is why I regret to say I am ruling out the possibility that Clifford is a match with the Parker Livingstone Match Group. The marker results are profoundly different for the most part unfortunately as you can see here for Parker Livingstones to be in any real sense related I would think.
Parker Livingstone typical result
13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 29 18 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15-15-17-17 11 11
19-23 16 15 19 17 38-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 17 10 14 12
16 8 14 22 21 14 12 11 13 12 11 12 12
James Livingston Descendant
13 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 14 11 31 15 9-10 11 11 23 14 20 32 12-15-15-16 11 11
19-20 16 17 18 18 35-38 12 11 11 8 17-17 8 12 10 8 11 10 12 22-22 15 11 12 12
13 8 14 23 21 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
Never met a challenge in life I walked away from, but often the Livingston results are not easily understood or explained, particularly with when there are a few or no close matches. And i think after the early tests were done, many of us were surprised at the variety of Livingstone/Livingston Y DNA results. The one thing that the Y DNA testing confirmed early on, what I had early on actually suspected, was that not all Livingstons families are descended from Livingstone families with roots in Highland Argyllshire. It eventually became quite apparent that there were a significant number of the Livingstons who had a family history or Scottish records not linking their Livingston families to Highland Argyllshire like my own Livingston family. Most of these "other Livingstons" seemed to be of Scottish origin with a small number possibly of German origin with their ancestors perhaps anglicizing their family name to Livingston. Some of these "other" Scottish Livingston families settled in nearby Ulster, Ireland in the 1600's.
Andrew spent a lot of time patiently trying to sort and group the Livingstone YDNA matches when possible by their shared and similar Y DNA results but some of those tested were in your situation with very few Livingston matches or no Livingston matches at that time.
As mentioned some of these "other" Livingston do have some family history pointing to the likelihood their Scottish Livingston ancestors living in the lowlands in the 1600's like a large number of other Scottish Presbyterians settled in County Down or one of the other six counties of Ireland back in the 1600's. One family that I know of settled in County Down from lowland Scotland and their family later settled in the 1700's in the Southern States. What North American's sometime refer to as "Scotch Irish". Some of these Scotch Irish families also settled in great numbers in the 1700's prior to the American Revolution in Pennsylvania. Have we figured out if Chancey Livingston's parents were Scotch Irish or Scottish? It was only in the later census record 1850 and later that Country where the person was born or originated was even included in the U.S. Census I think. I don't think I got anywhere determining Chancey Livingston's ethnic origin but I will take another look. I no longer have ancestry.com so that may be easier said than done. In any event I am going look over my earlier research on Chancey Livingston just to refresh my memory if nothing else.
I did in the past do some research regarding the possible shared ancestry with Chancey Livingston of Pennsylvania and that Livingston family group. It is regrettably that there are not more close Livingston matches on his familytreenda login page. I really like your idea of doing the SNP testing. Definitely worth doing to try to better understand the origins of Clifford's Livingston family group and what other Scottish families share with similar origins. Might be of some help. Don't know the significance of that one bit of SNP information you mentioned regarding Cllfford, but it would be helpful it you could trace Cliffords complete SNP information back as far as it goes as I could compare those SNP's with other Scottish families. It would be helpful with had a complete look at all of his SNP information which he probably now has or will be getting soon. With Clifford's complete SNP info going back to earliest SNP one can trace his genetic origins and get perhaps a sense which other families his family in more distant times was linked with whether in Scotland or elsewhere.
! really got into researching and trying to make sense of that Pennsylvania Chancey Livignstones origins for you in the past and wondered if he might be linked to another Livingston family of German origin that resided also in York County, Pennsylvania but I don't think came up with a definite answer on that. I am hoping we can get a more complete picture and some clues with Clifford's complete SNP info and hopefully get clued in to whether he is more likely Scottish or of German ancestry. Chancey Livingstone seems to be only clue so far as to Clifford's families earlier origins and I not certain how they were connected or when. It is difficult to determine when the family connection was precisely or for that matter where. But I don't give us easily as you can see from my all my posting on the forum since 2004. I know well enough what is like when you research road blocks in your family research. It has happened to me with some of my families I have researched in the past and with many of us no doubt. Very frustrating.
If I understand correctly the closest match with 111 markers tested was a descendant of Chancey Livingston and his closest match was a Livingston ?
Donald
Hope you are keeping well. Nice to have someone back at the forum like the old days. Been a bit quiet here lately I can see.
There is some minor or greater differences to some degree among Parker Livingstone group matches depending on their genetic distance to one another expressed in a variation of the marker results but this is a sample of a typical Parker Livingstone 67 marker result in this case that my Livingstone cousin I had tested yeas ago. This is why I regret to say I am ruling out the possibility that Clifford is a match with the Parker Livingstone Match Group. The marker results are profoundly different for the most part unfortunately as you can see here for Parker Livingstones to be in any real sense related I would think.
Parker Livingstone typical result
13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 29 18 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15-15-17-17 11 11
19-23 16 15 19 17 38-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 17 10 14 12
16 8 14 22 21 14 12 11 13 12 11 12 12
James Livingston Descendant
13 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 14 11 31 15 9-10 11 11 23 14 20 32 12-15-15-16 11 11
19-20 16 17 18 18 35-38 12 11 11 8 17-17 8 12 10 8 11 10 12 22-22 15 11 12 12
13 8 14 23 21 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
Never met a challenge in life I walked away from, but often the Livingston results are not easily understood or explained, particularly with when there are a few or no close matches. And i think after the early tests were done, many of us were surprised at the variety of Livingstone/Livingston Y DNA results. The one thing that the Y DNA testing confirmed early on, what I had early on actually suspected, was that not all Livingstons families are descended from Livingstone families with roots in Highland Argyllshire. It eventually became quite apparent that there were a significant number of the Livingstons who had a family history or Scottish records not linking their Livingston families to Highland Argyllshire like my own Livingston family. Most of these "other Livingstons" seemed to be of Scottish origin with a small number possibly of German origin with their ancestors perhaps anglicizing their family name to Livingston. Some of these "other" Scottish Livingston families settled in nearby Ulster, Ireland in the 1600's.
Andrew spent a lot of time patiently trying to sort and group the Livingstone YDNA matches when possible by their shared and similar Y DNA results but some of those tested were in your situation with very few Livingston matches or no Livingston matches at that time.
As mentioned some of these "other" Livingston do have some family history pointing to the likelihood their Scottish Livingston ancestors living in the lowlands in the 1600's like a large number of other Scottish Presbyterians settled in County Down or one of the other six counties of Ireland back in the 1600's. One family that I know of settled in County Down from lowland Scotland and their family later settled in the 1700's in the Southern States. What North American's sometime refer to as "Scotch Irish". Some of these Scotch Irish families also settled in great numbers in the 1700's prior to the American Revolution in Pennsylvania. Have we figured out if Chancey Livingston's parents were Scotch Irish or Scottish? It was only in the later census record 1850 and later that Country where the person was born or originated was even included in the U.S. Census I think. I don't think I got anywhere determining Chancey Livingston's ethnic origin but I will take another look. I no longer have ancestry.com so that may be easier said than done. In any event I am going look over my earlier research on Chancey Livingston just to refresh my memory if nothing else.
I did in the past do some research regarding the possible shared ancestry with Chancey Livingston of Pennsylvania and that Livingston family group. It is regrettably that there are not more close Livingston matches on his familytreenda login page. I really like your idea of doing the SNP testing. Definitely worth doing to try to better understand the origins of Clifford's Livingston family group and what other Scottish families share with similar origins. Might be of some help. Don't know the significance of that one bit of SNP information you mentioned regarding Cllfford, but it would be helpful it you could trace Cliffords complete SNP information back as far as it goes as I could compare those SNP's with other Scottish families. It would be helpful with had a complete look at all of his SNP information which he probably now has or will be getting soon. With Clifford's complete SNP info going back to earliest SNP one can trace his genetic origins and get perhaps a sense which other families his family in more distant times was linked with whether in Scotland or elsewhere.
! really got into researching and trying to make sense of that Pennsylvania Chancey Livignstones origins for you in the past and wondered if he might be linked to another Livingston family of German origin that resided also in York County, Pennsylvania but I don't think came up with a definite answer on that. I am hoping we can get a more complete picture and some clues with Clifford's complete SNP info and hopefully get clued in to whether he is more likely Scottish or of German ancestry. Chancey Livingstone seems to be only clue so far as to Clifford's families earlier origins and I not certain how they were connected or when. It is difficult to determine when the family connection was precisely or for that matter where. But I don't give us easily as you can see from my all my posting on the forum since 2004. I know well enough what is like when you research road blocks in your family research. It has happened to me with some of my families I have researched in the past and with many of us no doubt. Very frustrating.
If I understand correctly the closest match with 111 markers tested was a descendant of Chancey Livingston and his closest match was a Livingston ?
Donald