New Very Close Match To My Family

[Livingstone_PEI]

Hi All

I just wanted to let everyone know I have had an email with a very close match to my Family DNA. I would say this is my closest match so far. The only problem is their family name is not Livingston but is Warren. Would anyone like to comment on this. The close match is Mr. Milton Harry Warren and the match is a genetic distance of 2 which is the same as Alexander Livingston born in 1814.

Barry

[jmlivingstone]

Barry,

Just noticed your post regarding Mr. Warren,I've got the same Milton Harry Warren person, at 25 he has a difference of 2, by 67 the difference is 7.

John.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Barry and John,
Hope your all having a good summer. There are a couple of matches that are a challenge for the moment to explain except for the possiblity of adoption either during a more ancient Maclea period or sometime beyond Western Argyllshire in more recent times. It is very difficult to be certain of a connection particularly when it may likely not be documented in a family history or in some cases happen a very long time ago. I cant give you an definite explanation for the Warren family connection, but the Parker North Carolina connection I have checked with the person involved with that testing and it seems there is some possibility that a Parker ancestor who resided in close proximity to a family of North Carolina Livingstons of Highland origin may have been born of this Livingston family and subsequently adopted and took on the name Parker. My Livingston cousin also is 67-2 in comparison with the Warren you mention. I have not checked with Kyle or Andrew on this and have no genealogy info on this Warren family but it would be interesting to see if their ancestor lived in Western Argyllshire or more recently in an area populated in North America or elsewhere by highland Livingstons. That would probably be my first question. Presumingly at some point in time a highland Maclea Livingstone became a Warren. Thats my best guess anyways.

What I find very interesting with the group results or specifically my Livingston cousins results within the group is that their are a number of Livingstons whose results place them at 67-5 and even 67-6. Some at 67-4 a couple at 67-2 and one Livingston at 67-2. I am no expert in this genealogy dna thing but if I understand what is happening here is that there are maclea Livingstons whose maclea Livingston ancestors are much more closely related to my Livingstone and my cousin Livingston ancestors that other maclea lviingston participants within our dna group. Futhermore i suspect in the case of my cousins results those "Livingstons" whose results match with my cousins results with a genetic distance of 67-5 and 67-6 must be from a maclea Livingstone family connection that is in all likelihood a significantly long time ago. WIth a 67-5 or a 67-6 Livingston I would suspect a Maclea family connection perhaps before the clan adopted the lowland name Livingstone or Livingston. I think there is no question that my Livingston cousin is related to the Livingstons who match with him but at a genetic distance of 67-5 and 67-6 but they are without doubt distant cousins. I wonder if it also points to the notion that our Maclea Livingstone ancestors were a family group in western Argyllshire for a significantly long time.

Regarding the results of the other family matches I think there is a definite ancient connection with two old western Argyllshire families that of Clan Fergusson and Clan Morrison. THere is of course more than one Fergusson family group in Scotland but it would seem that the one that the Fergussons whom are a match to our dna group are those whose ancestors had a ancestral connection with Fergusons connected to highland Argyllshire. A check of old parish records and 19th century parish records shows old Fergusson families resided in Western Argyllshire at the same time as Maclea Livingstones. There are now a number of Fergussons who have best tested that are showing up as being some sort of match to our dna test participants suggesting that there is some ancestral connection between the families. My theory is that is relatively ancient but I can say whether it was 500 or 1000 years ago. The history of the ancient Ferguson ancestors clearly indicates the possibility some of the members of what is today Clan Maclea Livingstone share similar ancient Ireland origins and that these families later ended up in Western Argyllshire.

Another interesting thing regarding other family connections is that there are no two MOrrisons matching up with our maclea livingstone group. This connection may be more easily explained. THere were a number of Morrisons who resided for example in the Mull and neighbouring area of Western Argyllshire. Dr. Livingstone's grandmother was Mary Morrison of one these families. You are probably aware of the Morrison relative of Mary Morrison who settled in PEI in the early 1800's when you were looking at Belfast, PEI genealogy. THe connection of Morrisons with our Livingstone family group is however just coincidence due to some more ancient western argyllshire connection i presume that is likely never been documented. It is not likely that a connection therefore can be found.

regards,

Don

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Barry and John,

The closest matches for my cousin's test results are 67-2 and I am hoping that someday there will more 67-2 and even 67-1. THe one Livingston at 67-2 has apparent Mull origins as do many of the others more distant. A few also have neighbouring Morvern origins. Some simply arent aware of their Mull origins or tracing their origins to the point of departure from Scotland rather than the likely birth place of their ancestor. That being said I soon realized that the fact that there are some Livingstons whose results are 67-5 and a few at 67-6 is perhaps a valuable clue in the process of determining just how distantly connected these Livingston cousins and their ancestors might be with my Livingston family. So every Livingston result that matches with our Livingston cousins is worth checking out. Your ancestor John appears to be a distant 67-5 to my Livingston cousin's results which I presume suggests that are shared Maclea-Livingstone ancestor in Western Argyllshire goes back a number of generations. What is interesting is that there are a couple of Livingstons at 67-6 the apparent most distant maclea Livingstone cousins in the dna project and within our dna group. The fact that there are number of Livingstons with a significant genetic distance from my Livingston cousins results as no doubt you do I really think is significant in understanding our particular Maclea Livngstone highland group identified by the dna tests.

regards,

Don

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Barry and John,
Regarding the Morrison family connection to our Maclea Livingstone dna group it would be interesting to find out if Dr. Livingstone's grandmother's family (Morrisons that lived in Morvern and Mull are Morrisons who are a match to our Maclea Livingstones in our dna project group.

Dr. Livingstone's grandmother as mentioned Mary Morrison of Morvern married Neil Livingston in the 1770's in Kilninian Parish, Mull. By the 1780's they residing on the adjacent Isle of Ulva and by 1792 the family departs their croft of the Island of Ulva for Blantyre, Lanarkshire where Dr. Livingstone's grandfathter found work in a mill run by the Monteith family. The same mill which Dr. Livingstone and his brothers John and Charles later worked at. By the early 1800's Dr. Livingstone's Uncle Hector Morrison who his grandmother Mary Morrison's brother settled in the Belfast, Prince Edward Island area in present day Prince Edward Island, Canada. THere may well be some direct Morrison descendants of Hector Morrison still residing in PRince Edward Island. Undoubtingly they and their family before them were well aware of their family connection with Dr. David Livingstone. At least one Morrison in the 1800's of this PEI Morrison family was named after their relative Dr. Livingstone.
His connection to Dr. Livingstone would be as follows:
Hector Morrison b.abt. 1759 brother of Mary morrison who married Neil Livingston Sr. Dr. Livingstone's grandfather
Laughlin Morrison and Margaret McKenzie or Elizabeth
John Morrison and Elizabeth Mckinnon
David Livingstone Morrison b. July 23, 1875 Prince Edward Island



regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

As you mentioned a Ferguson connection, for what it's worth, I just thought I would mention, I've got a Robert Ferguson, 4 or 5 x g/grandfather, born around 1750'ish, probably on Islay, don't know for sure, but his daughter Ann was born abt. 1777 at Kilmodan, Islay, Robert died 1830 at Kelsay, Islay.

Robert was married to a Margaret McLugas, daughter Ann married Donald McGilvray on Islay.

So, at least I know where some of the Ferguson connection on my side of the clan comes from, at least in the past 300 or so years.

I've also got a Duncan Ferguson 1796-1875, Islay, who apparently is relatively close at 67 & 111 on FTDNA, someone else told me of this, I have not checked it myself as yet,

John.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Barry,
Check your 67 marker results those of the ones that are most significant in terms of any close matches or reasonably close matches. I have a lot of people matching my cousin at 25 a distance of 2 and if those same persons have done a 67 marker test I suspect their results are a significantly more distant at the 67 marker level. Andrew and Kyle can probably explain why this is the case but I have noticed this.My closest match at the 67 match level was I think 25 markers at a distance of 1 or something like that. I thinkthis is why Andrew and Kyle have encouraged us to go with the 67 marker test or higher if we can because it gives a better sense of actually how close a match someone who seems close at the initial 25 marker test actually is.

Still not clear why the descendant of Alexander Livingston of PEI does not have results a bit closer to yours. It was never clear they were one family from Mull that settled in the Mabou and nearby area but it just made sense from the info that Dr. St. Clair provided me with from old sources that it was likely that your ancestor was a brother of Alexander and his nearby John livingston Jr. husband of legendary old Kate Livingstone of Mull RIver/Mabou. Clearly they likely share the same Western Argyllshire Maclea ancestry as my Livingstones do to yours and other LIvingstons in the parker livingstone group but more closely related. As to why the match is not as close as we anticipated I cant say but I guess we cant rule out that we are looking at two Livingstons families that settled in close proximity but were not as closely related as I assumed from the information I had gathered. I think a dna test of a decendant of John Livingston Jr. husband of old Kate of the mountain who died about 1860 or before would be interesting in terms of how close they are match with the descendnant of ALexander Livingston born 1814 in Mull and your yourself or your Livingston cousin I think it was.

I know it is frustrating when it seemed we were that close on making a close family connection to the Alexander Livingston family line but there but on a positive note as result of all those Livingstons who have been tested over the last few years. there are now 15 or 16 Livingstons I think it is at last count that all share some sort of common Maclea Livingstone ancestry and have been identified as part of what has been referred to as the Parker Livingston group. A group of Livingstons whose by their numbers and their family history were likely part of a significant group of Maclea Livingstones that resided for centuries in Western Argyll and apparently Mull and likely neighbouring Movern Parish. And I suspect if more Nova Scotia and PEI Livingstones did the dna test many of them would also have results which are very close to your Livingston cousin and mine. I should come back to this message in another 10 yrs or more and see if I was correct in my assumption.

regards,

Donald

[livingstoneancestry]

Very interesting all. I need to come on more to read more of the updates.... just rechecked my brothers testing... the same Warren shows up for us as 67-5. I had 3 others with the same 67-5 distance including Dr Keith James Livingstone, Lloyd V Livingston and John Lloyd Livingstone Esq. I have one that is at 67-3 though Roger Alexander Livingstone

Unfortunately for me, at 111 my closest match is a distance of 7. I really wish more families would consider taking the additional testing.


Suzanne

[jmlivingstone]

Suzanne,

The 111 marker match you have is me, a pity more folk don't upgrade,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Suzanne and John,

My Cousin is Lloyd V Livingston, but I am the one who sponsored his test. DId not do the 111 test as yet though. I agree the 111 test upgrade is probably a good idea for those participants in the our Parker Livingstone group which has been identified as most common highland Livingstone group with most of these families having a known ancestral connection to Western Argyllshire for example Mull and Morvern. That being the case Suzanne I suspect that your Perthshire ancestors are quite likely descended from Maclea Livingstones from the ancestral homeland of Western Argyllshire. Following the 1745 rebellion, Maclea Livingstons and withthe subsequent industrial revolution emerging in lowland Scotland in the latter part of the 1700's, our people starting migrating in the search for new opportunities for themselves and their family beyond their tenant farms in Argyllshire.

You may have noticed that we have something like 16 Livingstons I think it was who have gone as far the 67 marker test and a found one who is up to 37 markers whom would probably benefit by upgrading to 67 markers or the 111 marker test. So I think at last count I noticed a total of 17 Livingstons. I should check the list again. And of course a significant number of Fergussons, some MOrrisons, families found in Argyllshire and some other families that I am not certain of their highland connection. One family of Parkers from the Southern USA have apparently a Livingston connection sometime in the past that may explain their test results being highland Livingstone like.

regards,

Donald