67 Marker test results

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Canadian Livingstone
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67 Marker test results

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Roberta and Jewel,

Based upon the 67 marker results of my Livingston cousin we very likely share an ancestor not a Livingston ancestor in recent times but more than likely a Maclea ancestor a few hundred or more years in Argyllshire before we adopted the name Livingston in the 18th century. Roger's ancestor is also clearly connected to us according to the 67 marker results The others of our ancient Maclea/dunslea group are a more distant connection but are apparently share the same the Dunslea ancestor possibly but are not likely more recent Maclea or Livingston connected with the three of us. The fact that these six or more people are connected to us at the 25 and 37 marker levels indicates to me that they share perhaps a common ancestor in an early Dunlea/Maclea and that our shared ancestor was from some unknown branch of the Macleas whose descendants made a home in Mull, neighbouring Morvern and some of the islands in Western Argyll. As we are not matching up with Bachuil Livingstones of Baron Livingstones family group we presumingly the combined group of eight or more of us must be some other unknown Clan Maclea ancient family group of undetermined origin that clearly lived in close proximity with the those Macleas and Livingstones who are of or related to the Bachuil Maclea Livingstones and were under the leadership of the Bachuil Maclea later Livingstone Chief for a great many years. The Maclea Livingstone website includes what is known about the Macleas and there was a history written in the 1740's by a Reverend Maclea which makes some mention of the early history of the highland Macleas but there is unfortunately much that we dont know.

regards,

Donald
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Canadian Livingstone wrote:The fact that these six or more people are connected to us at the 25 and 37 marker levels indicates to me that they share perhaps a common ancestor in an early Dunlea/Maclea and that our shared ancestor was from some unknown branch of the Macleas whose descendants made a home in Mull, neighbouring Morvern and some of the islands in Western Argyll. As we are not matching up with Bachuil Livingstones of Baron Livingstones family group we presumingly the combined group of eight or more of us must be some other unknown Clan Maclea ancient family group of undetermined origin that clearly lived in close proximity with the those Macleas and Livingstones who are of or related to the Bachuil Maclea Livingstones and were under the leadership of the Bachuil Maclea later Livingstone Chief for a great many years.
No doubt you form a solid cluster of families descended from a common ancestor. I think this is indisputable. Also, given the wide separation,it seems likely this was some time ago, and in Argyll.

I think our Clan DNA study has very conclusively laid out the fact that a Clan, despite romantic notions, is not a single paternal line. Many men in the clan were undoubtedly 'adopted' by marriage or alliance in its early years and so have different Y-chromosomal lines. This does not make them any less clansmen! And your group is no exception--clearly men of the ancient Clan MacLea who all adopted the Livingston(e) name and so clearly were within the Baron's sphere of influence. Looks pretty solid to me!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kyle,

The Mull-Morvern and related islands Maclea Livingstone group if i can call them that is very old group and the we know that from surviving Mull records that before they were Livingstones they were Macleas and given that we have a Mull resident in the 1779 records by the name Dunslea Livingstone born around 1700 that he had been a Maclea and without doubt his forefathers whether from mull, achnacree or elswhere in Argyll where connected to a "Dunslea". Given the clue that old Dunslea Livingstone of mull provides us that places at least some of the Mull famlilies connected to those that went by the name Dunslea. What the ultimate original origins of this group is impossible to say one way or another. It is not likely I can ever identify origins of the group beyond Mull Movern and other Island in Western Argyll. I will not likely be able to prove what branch of the Macleas they Achnacree or something else?

I think I have put forth a theory that is looking somewhat promising given the early results now the next step is to see if in the next few years with other Livingstones from Cape Breton, PEI , Ontario, Australia continue link up with this group. That remains to be seen and will be both interesting and exciting.

And while I am not suprised to be apparently linked with some famlilies with Mull origins given that my ancestor Miles Livingston was born at neighbouring Morvern, I have no quick and easy explanation to offer you why Dr. Livingstone's kin do not match up with this Mull group given Dr. Livingstone's assertion that the family lived for generations at Mull/Ulva. Only more testing of Livingstones with Kilninian and Kilmore Parish, Mull origins will we have any chance to understand the the Mull Livingstones.

The one thing we have learned to expect from the results of the DNA research is the unexpected. There are no easy answers to any of this. A bid to make sense of it I have zeroed on the one group that my ancestor seems to share a Maclea or Dunslea ancestor with undoubtingly in Western Argyllshire. The Bachuil Maclea history is well known and established; that of this group is still unclear. Clearly the ancestors of this group were clansmen of a Bachuil Maclea chief as they were later under the leadership of Bachuil Livingstone chief. As I have maintained before that fact that the name change to Livingston was embraced by Macleas in all of the Parishes in Argyll indicates that all Macleas regardless of their origins were one in highly unified clan. While I dont know the origin of our Macleas with any certainty I do know that they were later to become proud highland Livingstons like all the rest. That I do know for certain.

regards,

Donald
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Canadian Livingstone wrote:What the ultimate original origins of this group is impossible to say one way or another. It is not likely I can ever identify origins of the group beyond Mull Movern and other Island in Western Argyll. I will not likely be able to prove what branch of the Macleas they Achnacree or something else?
It may just be possible to link up this group with another cadet or branch of the Clan if we get more testees with a proven connection to one of these branches. At the moment, we can't do that, but it would be nice if, in the future, with more testees, we can indeed do that.

Of course, I am also hopeful that my branch will link up with Achnacree or one of the other branches so as to identify the origin of my MacLeas of Bute, but only time will tell!

We're in for a ride. We just need to continue our push to get more testees so we can answer these questions even better!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
Roberta Ann
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Roberta Ann »

Hi Donald;

Did Jeane Parker send you the records re: Hugh et al? I noticed, somewhere on the Forum, a mention of Patrick Livingston b. c. 1750.

the info. Jeane sent me shows Patrick died about 1832 in Robeson City, N.C.

Children:

Margaret b.c. 1780
Duncan b.c. 1785
Peter b. 1788 d. May 29, 1862 and buried in Raeford Cemetery, N.C.
Neil b.c. 1800
Mary b.c. 1802

Note: the information provided, re: Duncan 1785, by Walter R. Livingston age 79, grandson of John 1843; son of Duncan. Walter lives in Hamlet, N.C.

Regards;

Roberta Ann
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Roberta,

There was discussion of a Patrick Livingston with David and Jeanne but I think that Jeanne has ruled out Patrick Livingston as having any direct ancestral connection with David's family. All of info we have since discovered bears out David's principal ancestor as being Richmond County highland pioneer Duncan D. Livingston from Argyll County, Scotland who may or may not be from one of the parishes of Mull.

I am however curious about the origins of this Patrick Livingston as he does not seem to be connected with Duncan's family. There are quite likely more than one Livingston family group that settled in North Carolina to be sure. Duncan was said to have settled in North Carolina in the 1790's but a some brothers came with us.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kyle,

As David's test sponsor I am hoping to have you, Andrew and the Baron take a look at the matches if that is ok and get some feedback from the three of you how the matches connection to David's families published history. I am struggling to make a connection with the matches so far with the known history of the family in Western Argyll. I would really appreciate this.

regards,

Donald
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Canadian Livingstone wrote:As David's test sponsor I am hoping to have you, Andrew and the Baron take a look at the matches if that is ok and get some feedback from the three of you how the matches connection to David's families published history. I am struggling to make a connection with the matches so far with the known history of the family in Western Argyll. I would really appreciate this.
Hi Donald,

Remind me of this again soon? I've got an enormous genealogy and DNA backlog to get through and I want to try to dig through some of the other stuff first. I will be happy to do so soon, though!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
Roberta Ann
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Re: 67 Marker test results

Post by Roberta Ann »

Hi Donald;

Yes, I believe we are looking at more than one Livingston family in the Carolina's. For instance:

Index to Cumberland Co. Estate Records - N.C. State Archives in Raleigh.

Alexander b. 1822
Catherine b. 1827

Joseph b. 1762
Robert b. 1791

There are 18 Livingston's listed in the Estate Records 1772-1933, Richmond Co., N.C. Book 2

While I was printing the Canada West Census of 1851 I noticed one comment by a census taker noted that - a Livingston - changed his birth place from Canada to the U.S. I wonder if any of the Livingston Loyalists in the Carolina's, who had their lands confiscated, had their lands confiscated in Scotland as well.

Roberta
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