Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mull

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
Here is your earlier posting regarding Angus Livingston and the Chelsea Pensioners information /Kilmainham hospital Dublin circa 1801

Hi Donald,

Here's a possibility for Angus, I just came across, far from definite, but the nearest I've got so far, dob is in right timescale, a new clue to investigate if nothing else.

It's a pity no more info is readily available, I've had a quick look in a couple of other Mull sites, & this is the only Angus close to the correct dates.

I suppose by 24 years old, he could have had 12 years in the army, at that time they were not too fussy about boy soldiers ages.

The dob of Angus & Margarets first born, 1802 in Glasgow, would also tie in with his discharge date, but, as usual, it will probably never be proven if this is the correct Angus or not.

Royal Hospital Kilmainham, Dublin, was basically a sister hospital to Chelsea, so this Angus was definitely a soldier, not a navyman, a navy pensioner would have been Greenwich Hospital, which narrows things down a bit,

ANGUS LEVINGSTONE alias ANGUS LIVINGSTON; ANGUS LIVINGSTONE.
Born MULL, Argyllshire.
Served in Argyllshire Fencibles.
Discharged aged 24.
Discharged from Royal Hospital Kilmainham, Dublin 1801.

John

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
This was an earlier contribution of mine regarding information I found on the Argyll Fencibles during the period in which ANgus Livingston served with them.

Hi John,

Regarding your ancestor Angus Livingston's military service in the late 1700's early 1800's with the Argyll Fencibles. More info on the Argyl Fencibles from an 1898 book by John N. Macleod "Memorials of Rev. Norman Macleod"
" The threat of French invasion aroused patriotic feeling of the nation in a most wonderful manner, and nearly every man capable of bearing arms was enrolled in volunteer corps for the defence of the country. A most loyal and martial spirit existed in Argyllshire and over the Highlands generally. Three Regiments of 'Fencibles' were at the time raised in the county. ... When the volunteers were enrolled there was a company in every parish in Argyllshire. There were eight companies in Mull and Morven under the command of Major Maxwell, a strict disaplinarian."

In terms of a time frame a book by Major General David Stewart intitled " Sketches of the character and present state of the Highlands of Scotland with details of the Miltary Service" states that regarding the Argyll Fencibles that following the declaration of 1793 the Marquis of Lorne raised the a regiment of Argyll Fencibles and in 1794 a second regiment was raised under the command of Colonel Henry Clavering with service extended in Ireland until the the peace of 1802.

Also apparently in 1799 a decision was made apparently to eventually disband Fencible Regiments that were defending Great Britain and Ireland except for men who had volunteered to serve in EUrope. For the remaining men the pay was increased and those who qualified received a disability pension. i dont know exactly how Angus Livingston fit into this but is clear he was deed elible in 1801 or around that time to start receiving an disability pension and around this time or a short time later he left the Army in Ireland to return to Scotland where he married, started a family and eventually returned with them to his ancestral homeland of Ross of Mull.

The French were giving assistance to the Irish Rebellion of 1798 and some of the Argyll Fencibles served on Garrison duty in Ireland during the 1798 Rebellion to defend against both rebel attacks and any attacks by the French so again we a have a good time frame for when Angus might have actually arrived and served in Ireland.

regards,

Donald

regards,
Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
More info regarding the Argyll Fencibles found by you.

Hi Donald,

The link below has some info on Fencible regiments, & might explain why Angus was in Kilmainham Royal Hospital, Dublin, as you said, the Argyleshire Fencibles were in Ireland during the Irish rebellion which started 1798,

John

http://www.scribd.com/doc/68100606/The- ... s1793-1820

[jmlivingstone]

Ref. Angus & Margaret Livingstone, I have now spent a lot of time researching what Margaret’s maiden surname actually was, in the past, it has been suggested as being Hall, Hale, Kale or McPhail.
After researching every available document, I am of the opinion, her surname was actually Hall, my reasoning is as follows;

1. Only one document in 1858, her son John’s death certificate, uses McPhail as Margaret’s maiden surname. To the best of my knowledge, it has appeared as McPhail no where else, if it has I have not found any sign of it so far.

2. The only other time the name Margaret McPhail appears, is Margaret Livingstone McPhail, daughter of Ann Livingstone & Gilbert McPhail, & g/daughter of Angus & Margaret.
I can only guess that somehow her name was recorded on John’s death certificate, instead of her g/mother’s name.

3. On the subject of Hale, Kale or Hall, again I would suggest Hall is the actual surname, Hale & Kale being either poor writing, or misunderstanding of non- highland/Irish accents when informed of Margaret’s surname.

I suggest that possibly Margaret did not have Western Isles/Scottish accent, due to her being listed in the census returns, as born in a foreign place.

As far as where Angus & Margaret died, despite searching through thousands of records, I still have no clue, although I suspect probably Islay.

The only verifiable info I found, was that both had died, probably before 1858, neither appear in the 1861 census.

I suspect, it will be pure luck if any further info comes to light on this subject, still, I’ll keep trying, & hopefully, some day, some one will come up with an answer, any further info will be gratefully received,

John

[jmlivingstone]

A few more additions to the family of Angus & Margaret,

Andrew Mitchell Livingstone, 1829-1887 -m- Isabella Smith, b. 1850'

Family of Andrew & Isabella;

Mary b. 1880, Coatbridge, Lanarkshire.

Margaret b. 1882, Coatbridge.

Robert b. 1884, Coatbridge.

Andrew Mitchell Livingstone b. 1881, Stirling -m- Margaret Miller, 1884-1933 Lanarkshire,

Family of Andrew & Margaret;

Andrew Mitchell Livingstone b.1913, Coatbridge.

Marion Paterson Livingstone b. 1915, Coatbridge, d. 1993, Bristol, Gloucestershire -m- Wm. L.F. Read.

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
I don't remember whether or not you had previously mentioned these.

Interestingly there are two death records after the 1861 Calton, Glasgow census info which pertain to the Hugh Livingston family.

Son Robert Livingston died June 24, 1861 age 12 residence 23 James Street, Calton,Glasgow Parents: Hugh Livingston Wood turner and Jean Shinnin or Shinnon

Wife Jean Livingston died May 11, 1863 age 44 residence 5 Union Street, Calton, Glasgow Parents: Robert Shannon occupation Flesher and Mary Cameron (deceased) Jean's family name is definitely recorded as "Shannon" in this final record.
Husband Hugh Livingston Wood turner Master

This may be the last of the family paper trail from Calton, Glasgow before he seemingly disappeared from the Scottish records.


I found a possible cousin of your Hugh Livingston in the 1871 Census from Ontario, Canada but not any sign of your Hugh.
This is Hugh Livingston born abt. 1821 in the 1871 Ontario, Canada Census born in Scotland residing in Grey County, Ontario with wife Margaret but he is the son of Donald Livington and Cirsty Campbell of Mull and he arrived in in Grey County, Ontario about 1845 after leaving Mull. His father Donald Livingston I suspect is a brother of your ancestor Angus Livingston as previously mentioned.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
I agree it is quite likely that your ancestor Angus Livingston of Colonsay and his wife Margaret died at Colonsay. While we don't have information on them beyond 1841, my understanding is that the 1840's was a difficult time for impoverished crofters and tenant farmers on Colonsay and elsewhere in western Argyll and it is possible that old Angus and his wife were victims of disease or famine a few years after the census or simply died of old age. I cant off the top of my head remember the details, but I do remember reading that the crofters on Colonsay suffered badly during this period. Some of them I think in certain areas were also removed from their crofts on Colonsay during the 1840's to further add to their misery. I think those who were able considering going to Canada, Australia or Lanarkshire during this time where there were more opportunities to improve their lives.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

1. Ref. Hugh & family, if you check back to around May/June last year, we spoke about them, I think virtually the whole of the family died quite young, I'm still digging trying to find Hugh, at least I'm back to it now you have reminded me about him.

Hugh also appears in the Glasgow Directory, as supplier/manufacturer of weaving equipment, so I presume he ran his own business.

I'm quite happy that Jean is a Shannon, although it is difficult to read in most cases.

2. Hugh in Ontario is probably a grandson of Neil Livingstone & Christian Boyd from Kilpatrick/Shiaba area of Mull, who are probably the parents of Donald & Angus.

3. I still tend to think Angus & Margaret possibly ended up on Islay, as did their son John & wife Agnes, who also stayed on Colonsay for a time while enroute Islay, I think John & Agnes were there for around a year at least, one of their sons was born on Colonsay if I remember correctly.

4. Donald under the heading Canadian Livingstones, there's a recent enquiry, a new member Robin is trying to track down a Charlotte S. Livingstone, an unmarried mother, who left Scotland/England with her son Douglas F. Livingstone for Canada around 1918, so far we have been unable to find her on ships passenger manifests, either leaving the UK, or entering Canada.

We did find her on a border crossing at Port Huron, with her one year old son, attempting to enter USA, but being refused entry, I believe due to lack of funds, do you have any suggestions,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
Robert died of an ulcer of the bowel or something like that. His mother Jean (Shannon) Livingston died of "chronic diarrhea". Could be Cholera related. In those times in Glasgow diseases such as Cholera, typhoid and dysentary were a constant threat given poor sanitation and contaminated drinking water in populated towns. There were efforts by the 1860's to improve sanitation in Glasgow and during the Cholera epidemic in Glasgow in 1865 there were significantly fewer deaths. Still in the 1860's very few people understood the need to boil their drinking water or take frequent baths and of course sewage treatment was way in the future.There were some pretty nasty bugs floating in their drinking water unfortunately in the mid 19th century and they were totally ignorant about it. When you come to think of it our ancestors were lucky to live as long as they did. It could well be that Hugh died but I did not see any information on that. There was something like 53 persons who died in Glasgow of Cholera a few years after JEan, died in 1865, but dont know if Hugh was one of them. I think he would have listed if so. Lets think positive. Perhaps he remarried and went to Australia.

I saw your discussion regarding Charlotte Livingston and looked for her in 1910 U.S census and 1911 Canadian Census but did not see her there. I need to go back and take a closer look at the info sent.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Another small amount of info.,

1. Agnes Livingstone, 18 years old, daughter of Andrew Livingstone & Maggie McQueen - m - Patrick Duffey, 23 years old, occ. grain storeman, son of James Duffey, farmer & Elizabeth McMenemy, of Co. Londonderry, on 01 Feb. 1904, at St. Patricks RC Church, Glasgow.
Address at marrriage, 44, McIntyre St., Glasgow.

2. Peter Livingstone, also son of Andrew & Maggie, - m - Elizabeth McKinlay, date unknown.
Peter d. 08 Feb. 1961 in Glasgow & Elizabeth died 08 Feb. 1947 in Glasgow, she was b. 19 June 18887 at Balfron, Stirlingshire,

John