Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ontario

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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:49 am

Hi David,

The historical society may know more about your Doag ancestor than your Livingstones when they resided in Innisfil Township but I was thinking they might be able tell you whether or not presbyterian marriage records from the old Presbyterian Free Church and the other nearby Presbyterian congregation I mentioned in Innisfil Township prior to 1857 survived. Your ancestor and his wife Susanah Doag were very likely married in one of those two Presbyterian churches around 1855 given that their eldest child in Innisfil Township was born apparently in 1856. The children's religion in the 1861 Census and the mothers was Free CHurch so that would be my first guess where the mother and father were married several years earlier. Clearly the Doags had lived in Innisfil Township for a number of years prior to Archibald Livingston's arrival and were members of the Free Church congregation in their vicinity in Innisfil Township which had been established in the 1840's as a breakaway group from the main Presbyterian Church congregation if I understand correctly. Some theological dispute within the Presbyterian Church at the time I suppose.

regards,

DOnald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:33 pm

Donald, it’s been a while and my apologies for not updating much sooner.

Since my last post I’ve been able to discover some additional details that I’d like to share regarding Thomas Doig:

I was able to find his discharge papers from the 78th Regiment of Foot dated 20 December 1824. It states (in part):
These are to certify that Private Thomas Doig born in the parish of Kippen in or near the Town of Stirling in the County of Stirling was enlisted for the aforesaid Regiment at Glasgow in the County of Lanark on the tenth Day of June 1816 at the Age of twenty years for --??-- service. That he hath served in the Army for the space of eight years and 203 Days …


On the back is written:

Private Thomas Doig has laboured under and affection of the liver for the last two years of which ???? he has been under medical treatment at the Regimental Hospital ??? Royal Infirmary about a year and a half without deriving any material benefit, though every measure has been resorted to. He is now very much debilitated, accompanied with a constant pain in the region of the liver, sickness at his stomach, and a loss of appetite. His disease was first contracted at Callan in 1822 from exposure to cold, while employed on reserve duty. I am firmly of the opinion, from the ????? state of his health, he is totally unfit for any service.


This would place his year of birth as 1796 and based on this and his place of birth I believe he is this individual (from http://www.doig.net/DOIGK.htm):

364 M ii. Thomas Doig was born in 1796 in Nether Broich, Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland. He was christened on 10 Jul 1796 in Kippen, Stirling, Scotland.

This is consistent with everything I know of my Thomas Doig so I have a high degree of confidence in this link.

As you mention, it seems there are a LOT of Doig’s in Argenteuil so this could very well assist in connecting Archibald Livingstone from Quebec with my Thomas Doig in Innisfil. Perhaps Thomas Doig had close relatives who lived in Quebec - I have yet to dig into that.

It appears Thomas Doig commuted his pension to reside in the Province of Upper Canada at some point after being discharged after a stay at the Regimental Hospital.

In 1838 a list of commuted pensioners was compiled and Thomas Doig is listed (http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passe ... a.shtml#cp - he’s on line 213). The regiment (78) matches, although the discharge date does not (the site lists 1819 but it is in fact 1824 as per the discharge document I have). Apparently these pensioners were having an extremely hard time making it on their own, and a proposal was put forward to grant them some relief - Thomas appears on that list as well: http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passe ... seab.shtml

It’s possible Thomas came to Canada in 1825 - his name appears in “U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s” on ancestry. Unfortunately I no longer have a subscription there, but this is the link if you have a subscription and are interested: https://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse. ... try&gss=pt

Not sure if this immigration record will establish where he went within Canada...

I viewed the probate records for Thomas Doig as he indeed died intestate on 23 July 1863. There was no additional family information in those - it listed Susannah as his only child and heir and stated that he was a widower. What I found interesting was the list of his worldly possessions - he didn’t die with much.

The land petitions microfilm yielded an entry for Thomas Doig - petition # 36. Looks like his petition for 100 acres of land went before council 5 April 1832 and was recommended.

When I viewed the land records for north ½ Lot 19 7th concession I couldn’t find anything for Thomas Doig. What I found initially confused me.

The first name I see (P1159) is a Thomas Pidd (or Bidd - or other - hard to read). At the bottom it says ‘cancelled’. P1160 is a location ticket and has the name ‘Thomas Pidd’ with a date of 17 November 1830. P1162 has the name James Davis with ‘Cancelled’ written underneath. P1163 is the location ticket with the name James Davis and the year 8 June 1832.

From what I can see there were certain criteria that had to be met to keep the land. I’m guessing these first two individuals lost the land perhaps because they didn’t fulfill those conditions. I’ll have to request the film again and see what follows on the next pages - it was a few years ago now and I cannot recall if there were additional location tickets for the same land… If memory serves, I think I assumed the first Thomas was for Thomas Doig. Either way, including the information I have at the moment.

I realize all the above research is for a non-Livingstone, but as we discussed I believe it was necessary to try and firm up the connection between the Quebec Archibald Livingstone and the one appearing in Innisfil on the 1861 census.

I’ve not pursued the marriage record of Archibald and Susannah as yet - not sure if that will be helpful in any way. The Doig connection as outlined above may be our best bet.
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:17 am

Hi David,

Nice to hear from you again. Sounds like your still doing your Livingstone-Doig family history. It has been relatively quiet here, but the Livingstone research continues. I think there is good possibility that your ancestor Alexander Livingston born abt 1804 Scotland was of Highland Livington origin as you originally thought and I think likely born in Western, Argyll, Scotland, given that his children were named Christy, Archibald, Margaret, Catharine, Mary,
Donald age 11, Jane age 8, John age 6, Agnes age 5, Euphemia age 2. I come across all of these names very frequently among a good number of Livingston families I have researched over the years whose family is born and connected to parishes in Western Argyllshire, Scotland for sure. I would say that almost all Euphemia and Christy Livingstons I have researched in the last 10 years were from parishes in Western Argyll for instance. But as I may have mentioned our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society is involved with familytreedna and we have a Livingstone DNA Project which as been on going for more than 10 years and this genealogy based DNA test is one way a number of Livingstone/Livingstons have utilized to help identify their Livingstone/Livingston family origins and which other Livingston families in United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and in Scotland today that they share kinship with. In many cases Livingston families are unable to locate information on their families before the 19th century or don't have any surviving family information on where in Scotland their Livingston families may have originated, so there is a chance that the familytreedna test might provide some clues.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:37 pm

Hi David,

Assuming the Quebec census info is correct and Archibald's father Alexander Livingston was born in 1804 in Scotland I have found a few Argyll Livingstons who were born or baptized in 1804.
Some Church of Scotland Parish records from Parishes in Argyllshire
Alexander Livingstone of Ardchattan Parish, Argyll 12/11/1804 Parents: Neil Livingstone and Mary McIlriach

Alexander Livingston of Kilmore and Kilbride Parish, Argyll 25/04/1804 Parents: Duncan Livingston and Mary Graham

Alexander Livingston of Torosay and Kilochspelvie Parish, Argyll 13/05/1804 Parents: Duncan Livingston and Nelly Mcdougal.

No guarantee that your ancestor Alexander Livingston's Scottish birth or baptism record still exists but here are three from 1804 that do exist and there is probably at least a 50 per cent chance one of them is your ancestor.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:29 pm

Not sure why I missed your last post - just seeing it now. thank-you for the information!
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:47 pm

Hi David,
Nice to hear from you again.
Glad to have been of some help. One thing I have found to be very helpful in better identifying the origins of various Livingston families in Scotland is the familytreedna genealogy Y Chromosome test. Our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society and other Livingstones worldwide have been participating with familytreedna for more than a decade with their Y Chromosome test. I knew my ancestor Miles Livingston was born in Argyllshire about 1775 and in Morvern Parish according to his 1812 marriage record, but there also some information that had a Miles Livingston baptized in neighbouring Lismore Parish on the Isle of Lismore, so I was not certain if my Miles Livingston was connected to Morvern or Lismore or both? As my father and I were descended from a Livingston but my father was not a Livingston I found a third cousin a Livingston and direct descendant of my highland Argyll Livingston ancestor Miles Livingston to do the familiytreedna Y chromosome test. My Livingston cousin's DNA results proved to be a close match with other Livingstons of highland Argyllshire origin some from Mull and Morvern and his closest match eventually proved to be clearly closest to 3 other Livingstons in the DNA project who had documented genealogy info proving their ancestors like mine originated in Morvern Parish, Argyllshire. So in this way the familytreedna Y Chromosome test was able to verify which Scottish Livingston general family group I was related to which included a number of Livingston connected family branches of Mull, Morvern, Ardnamurchan etc and as well three Livingston famiies likely also of Western Argyllshire origin that had lived in neighbouring Perthshire County, In Scotland in the 1700's and 1800's.

This genealogy Y Chromosome test offered by familytreedna people comes highly recommended by Clan Maclea Livingstone Society which is the official Clan Society of Clan Maclea Livingstone established by our Clan Chief Baron Niall Livingstone of Bachuil, Lismore, Argyllshire. This test has helped a number of Livingstone/Livingston family researchers to better understand what Livingstone family group from Scotland their family is connected to as there are a number of Livingston families out there. Also it can potentially link you with other related Livingstons who share similar ancestral connections in Scotland or more recently.

At this point in time we are somewhat in the dark as to the precise origins in Scotland of your Livingstone ancestor Alexander Livingstone and this Y Chromosome offered by famiilytreedna I think would probably determine whether your ancestor was of Western Argyllshire Livingstone/Livingston origin which is what I suspect and of which Livingston family group which ultimately could be of some benefit in helping to determine your Livingstone/Livingston family origins. Let me know you have an interest and or questions about our Clan DNA project.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Hi David,

My assumption that your ancestor Alexander Livingston born in Scotland about 1804 and first appearing and recorded in Deux Montagnes County Grenville, Quebec Canada East census of 1842 is originally from a parish in Western Argyllshire was reinforced somewhat when I noticed that his neighbours recorded on pg. 1253 and 1254 of this early Quebec Census included a significant number of Scottish persons with Western Argyllshire names. On page 1253 Donald Cameron, Murdock McPhee, Donald McArthur, Dugald McVicar, Charles McLean, Alexander McPhee, Alexander Livingston, Mrs. McGillveray, Duncan Cameron,

pg. 1254 John McDonald, Angus Livingston, John Cameron, Hugh McVIcar.

Now of interest is that most of the farmers recorded on 1253 including Alexander Livingston are listed as Proprietors of real property I would assume meaning that they are not tenants. And if that is so then you may find there could be a surviving land document in the Quebec Archives which would likely give you the original date when Alexander Livingston prior to 1842 acquired the property his farm was situated in the Grenville area of Deux Montages County, Quebec. Also probably some more detailed information regarding the precise location of where this property was located in the Grenviille area. It probably won't tell you much more than that.There is no guarantee that this land document a bill of sale still exists today but it may. Probably worth checking out sometime, but you might have to contact a Quebec based family researcher who has some experience with old Quebec land records who first of all can do a search and tell you whether this land record possibly from the 1830's or early 1840's exists for Alex and the other Scottish farmers settlers in Grenville area. Also of interest is that fact that there is an Angus Livingston also part of these Scottish born settler group in the Grenville area. Not certain if he related or not, but someone may have done some research on him. I notice he also appears in the subsequent 1851 Census. I will take a look and see if anyone has done any family research on him that can shed some light on his Scottish origins. Regardless my check of the 1842 Census with Alex and Scottish farmer neighbours all with old Western Argyllshire highland Scottish family names makes me suspect even more your ancestral origins lie with a Livingston family from a parish in Western Argyllshire or Western Argyllshire Livingston family that had lived before coming to Quebec in neighbouring Perthshire.

Also with names like Alexander, Archibald, Donald Flora, Christy, and Euphemia in you Livingston family common names with Western Argyllshire Livingstons I think the census info also points to your Livingston family originating from a Western Argyll family of Livingston origin.

What do you know. Alexander Livingston apparently received a patent on his land on Sept. 3, 1835. I assume it was for land granted to him. What may be significant is that all of the other Scottish born residents who I mentioned lived nearby also apparently received land and took out a patent on their land also in the 1830's in 1832, 1833, 1834, and 1836 for example. Angus Livingston took his out in 1840. Angus had one son Charles born abt. 1831in Quebec who settled in Prescott County, Ontario where he married Mary Parke in 1859. Don't know if his father Angus Livingston was related to your Alexander Livington and his family or where this Angus came from.

I wonder if Alexander and these other Scots were granted land from the Quebec Government (Lower Canada) in those days? Someone must know if many of the Scottish settlers in the Grenville area arrived around the same time in Quebec and where in Argyll these other Scottish families came from.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:22 am

Hi David,

It would appear likely that your ancestor Alexander Livingston was connected to these other scottish settlers in his area of Grenville Township, Argenteuil County, Quebec. It is known that Scots with the names like Cameron, McPhee, Livingston settled in the early 1800's around the Scotch Road in Grenville Township and they were apparently as I suspected came from Argyllshire Scotland apparently Mull and Lochaber, Argyll. Looks very likely your Livingston are from Argyllshire. There are some Scotch Road historians a family researchers who likely know some details about Scotch settlement in Grenville Township. I think these Scotch Road people may be able to provide some further clues regarding the Livingston neighbours and where in Argyll Scotland they came from. But it is already clear some of these family have a Mull and Lochaber connection. It appears that some of Alexander Lvingston's neighbours have an Invernesshire connection near the border with Argyllshire. Lochaber district was partly in Argyllshire and partly in Invernesshire and near Fort William in Inverness-shire one of the larger settlements in the area back when these families were residing in the highlands. So Alexander Livingston may have been born in this Lochaber area or he may be a Livingston from Mull. Interestingly I am in my own research with the Clan Society trying to establish which Livingston family group the Ardgour Livingstons are a match with elsewhere in Western Argyllshire and am in the process of studying a Livingston family with roots in that Argyllshire/Inverness-shire border area apparently. So you may be connected to this Ardgour area in the Inverness-shire/Argyllshire border area or with a Mull Livingston family group. At least i know have some clues as to where your Livingston family and some of their neighbours in the Grenville Township area where they lived may have come from.

http://www.scotchroadcemetery.com ( See genealogy info section) Note: Livingstons mentioned with McPhees and others I mentioned as early Argyllshire settlers)

http://qahn.org/fr/awardrecipient/scotc ... ssociation

http://www.scotchroadcemetery.com

Transcription of Scotch Road Cemetery records
http://globalgenealogy.com/countries/ca ... w-7810.htm

Some of the Camerons who settled in the Grenville area in the early 1800's may be connected to Kilmallie parish which was oddly enough situated in both Argyllshire and Inverness-shire being as I was saying close to the border of the two highland Counties.
I have been researching a couple of Livingston families that lived in Kilmallie parish vicinity, but I don't that your Livingstons did not come from Mull or another parish in Western Argyllshire.
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Ki ... _Genealogy

I may eventually start up a new posting with the title Alexander Livingston of Grenville Township, Argenteuil, Quebec to focus more on the Quebec settlement factor.






regards,


Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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