Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

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Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby glivingstone08 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:00 pm

Hi all after many years research i have traced my ancestors back to Ireland and i then draw a blank I'm unable to draw any lineage to Scotland other than my name itself my question is being that clan Livingstone is so very modern with limited historical records available could it not be that I and others could be from the small village in Scotland named Livingstone the predecessor of the modern town Livingstone without records How could i or anyone with my surname be sure of their roots any help greatly appreciated
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Re: Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:25 am

hi glivingstone,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone forum. Some Livingstones or Livingstons are fortunate enough to have passed down family histories or knowledge of ancestral roots in Scotland or Ireland and even the County and Parish were they lived, but i come across quite a few that have little information beyond the fact that their family originated in Scotland or Ireland. For most the family in lowland Scotland likely South Western Scotland remains a mystery. Later in the 19th century some highland Livingstons may have migrated to Ulster looking for work but the older Livingston families of Ulster seem to be rooted with families that arrived in Ulster in the early 1600's or thereabouts likely from lowland Scotland presumingly South Western Scotland where many of the other Presbyterian lowland Scots that settled in Ulster in early 1600's are known to have originated.

The earliest Livingston families in Ireland are known to have arrived there probably in the early 1600's amongst the many Presbyterian Scottish families from South western lowland Scotland encouraged to settle in the Counties of Ulster in the North of Ireland. If as i suspect from what you saying that you have not had much luck locating information on your family origins in Ireland I would suggest you consider a genealogy DNA test a Y chromosome test with familytreedna. A significant number of Livingston with ancestral roots in Ireland have taken familytreedna 37 or 67 marker test which may connect your results if you take this test with some Livingston matches and therefore perhaps give you some sense from these matches your Irish Livingston roots. At the very least if other Livingstons of known Ulster Ireland Livingston ancestry are a match with your results, you may find Livingstons with a shared Ulster Ireland ancestry and lowland Scotland before that. The problem of course remains that for many LIvingstons of Ulster Ireland origin that most of them have little details on their family in Ireland in part because most of Ulster area census and other records were lost in a fire in the Dublin Public Records Office. Even fewer have any information on where their Ulster Livingston ancestors lived before the early 1600's in lowland Scotland. There was a lot of settlement in Ulster in the early 1600's by those Scots who lived in Ayrshire in South western lowland Scotland but no doubt they originated from other Counties in Southwestern Scotland. None of the few Livingstons of Ulster origin that has been in touch with me seems to have any information on their ancestors before the 1800's and no info on their Livingston family that centuries past at one time likely resided in South Western Scotland. Most of them are unfortunately struggling with the frustrations of the lack of records and information available to them in Northern Ireland regarding their Livingston ancestors who lived in Ulster in the 19th century and a few centuries before that.

I really think that the familytreedna 37 or 67 marker DNA test may be of some help if it matches you with other Livingstons of similar ancestry to you. It won't necessarily help to answer your many family history questions right away, but it could eventually link you with other Livingstons like yourself of Ireland Livingston ancestry.

Do you have any idea around what year or century your Livingston ancestor from Ireland left Ireland? Do you know what County they lived in Ireland? Have you checked to see if anyone else perhaps a distant cousin is also doing research on your Livingston family perhaps on ancestry.com or elsewhere.

Ultimately, precisely where your Livingstons from Ireland came from in Scotland will prove to be quite likely impossible. There seems to be a number of Livingston families not related to one another who have roots in Ulster Ireland. A number of them however have done the familytreedna Y Chromosome test and there is a chance one of them might be a match with you. I don't have any idea how long your Livingston family has lived in Ireland but I am only assuming that they may be one of the Livingston families that settled in the early 1600's that originated in South Western Scotland. Beyond that I really can't say where your Livingstons lived in Scotland prior to settling in Ireland if your family was one of the original Presbyterian Livingston families that settled in Ulster Ireland in the early 1600's. Your not likely descended from the old Aristocratic Livngstons of Stirlingshire, Scotland and those old Livingstons from whom the town Livingston was named after. This DNA test will help to rule out all the Livingston families out there that aren't a match with you as well which would also be helpful. The best case scenario ( not guaranteed) would be that you are a match with other Livngstons who have more info that you on their ancestry roots in Ireland. But it not likely they have any detailed on their earlier likely lowland Livingston ancestry. None that I have encountered of " Scotch Irish" Ulster Livingston ancestry( if that is your origin)seems to have any detailed information on their Livingston family when they lived in Scotland prior to the 1600's. So I don't suspect you will have any luck with that to be honest, but as I say this DNA test i mentioned would be worth it just to see if any other LIvingstons with a connection likely to Ulster in North of Ireland might be able to help you in some way with your Livingston family research. But beyond that I suspect it may be very difficult for you to discover your ancestral roots in Scotland, though there is probably no doubt that your ancestors originated in Scotland possibly prior to the 1600's. I am sorry that I can not be of more help but I have done Ulster family research with my other family in the past and I know quite well the challenges in finding the info you are seeking.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum
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Re: Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby Greg Livingston » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:13 am

Welcome to the Clan MacLea (Livingstone) Forum, glivingstone. I, too, am struggling with older details in my research. I have traced back to 1786 but don't have any information on where James David was born or who his parents were. All I have is information on his wedding in Western Pennsylvania. His wife I have traced back to Londonderry and on back to Invernessshire. Last year I did the FamilyTreeDNA 111 marker test and found out that I am related to Dr. David Livingstone. I only have one hit at 111 markers but there are several more at lower numbers. If you do the DNA test, please for as many markers as you feel comfortable with, the more the better your results will be.

If you fill Donald in on the results that you have, he might be able to help get you over a rough spot in your research. He has helped me.

Once again, welcome and good luck on your research.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
Greg Livingston
 
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Location: Northglenn, CO, USA

Re: Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby glivingstone08 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Thank you for the warm welcome and helpfull replies i think I may go down the DNA route i wonder about cost and interpretation of the test but worthwhile none the less i suppose I'm more frustrated at the lack of activity with the Livingstone clan through history we don't seem to of made much of a impression no clan warfare or involvement in those defining moments in Scottish history IE Robert the Bruce banackburn it would be great to see who we sided with and where aleagencies lied kind regards
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Re: Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:25 pm

Hi glivingstone,

Here is the link below to familytreedna which gives you three basic choices regarding Y chromosome marker testing if your a male, your name is Livingstone and your father, grandfather etc. was a Livingstone. This test identifies your Y chromosome markers unique to the Male Livingstones in your family group. Depending on whether there are other Livingstons out there in the world who either distantly or more closely related to your Livingston family when your test is completed by familytreedna when checking the list of your matches you find you have some Livingston and other families out there are have similar results. The 37 marker test provides some clues as to your probable matches but the 67 marker test better identifies how close your matches actually are. I would myself only go with the 111 marker test as upgrade after the 67 marker test established that I had a number a matches and wanted to get an even better sense of how close or how distant they were. I generally suggest Livingstons go with the 67 marker test at a starting point and at the moment the 67 marker test is on sale at the familytreedna website I noticed.

https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna
The first question for anyone wanting to understand their Livingston family connection with other Livingstons out there is which Livingston family ancestrally I am connected to. Those Livingstons known as highland Clan Maclea Livingstone who originated in Western Argyllshire, Scotland are but one source of present day Livingstons and not everyone DNA testing tells us is descended from these highland Argyllshire Livingstons known as Clan Maclea Livingstone. If one does not have ancestral records such as Scottish parish and census records linking their Livingston ancestors to old Argyllshire Livingston families or Ulster Ireland Livingston families or other lesser known lowland Livingston families that lived elsewhere in lowland Scotland or have no clue what there Livingston family origins are then as mentioned the familytreenda Y chromosome test may possibly be helpful in linking one to other Livingstons who are a relatively close or distant match with you and possibly from that get some clues regarding your possible Livingston origins.

DNA testing has proven that not all Livingstons or Livingstone share the same ancestral origins or are of the same family. There was an old highland Clan by the name of Maclea or Maconlea who resided in Western Argyllshire and by the mid 1700's had adopted the lowland name of a old aristocratic lowland Livingston family. There is a story that these lowland Stirlingshire Livingstons and the highland Maclea Livingstones were related, but DNA Testing is indicating so far that this is not like the case at least not blood relatives and that there are a number of distinct Livingston family group out there identified through DNA tests. If as is often the case that a Livingston researching their family has no knowledge or proof which Livingston family group they are connected ancestrally to this Y Chromosome DNA is really the best way to go. A good number of Livingstons of a number of Livingston family origins beyond just the highland Maclea Livingstones of Western Argyllshire have taken the familytreedna test including a number of Livingstons who are descended from Lowland Livingston families probably from South Western Scotland whose ancestors settled in Ulster Ireland in the early 1600's and whose Ulster Livingston descendants often settled in Scotch Irish settlements in North Carolina, Pennsylvania in the USA in the 1700's and in the 1800's in Canada.

It terms of size Clan Maclea Livingstone of Western Argyllshire has never been a large, powerful, land grabbing clan and perhaps to most not as historically prominent in the sense of the Campbells also of Western Argyllshire but our Clan Chief Baron Niall Livingstone of Bachuil, Lismore is of an old and highly respected Western Argyllshire family that has historically resided on the Isle of Lismore for centuries, possesses one of the oldest titles in the British Isles and who have been for centuries, the hereditary keepers and Coarbs of the sacred staff of St. Moluag, who in the 6th century AD brought Christianity to the Picts residing on the Island of Lismore and established the Celtic Church there. And despite being the more powerful and prominent of the highland Argyllshire families, even the Campbells acknowledged over the centuries the religious and historic significance to Argyllshire of the Bachuil Maclea Livingstones of the Isle of Lismore as keepers and Coarbs of the Staff of St. Moluag and I think even envied them. One of the Dukes of Argyll a Campbell either around 1850 or later in the 1870's admiring the ancient Staff of St. Moluag, one day while the visiting the then Baron, asked to borrow it to which the Baron of Bachuil kindly agreed and oddly enough the staff remained with the Dukes of Argyll until it was years later returned to the our present Clan Chief's father the late Baron of Bachuil Alastair Livingstone a few decades ago.

The highland Livingstones of Argyllshire however are probably best known for Dr. David Livingstone whose grandfather Neil Livingston Sr. and his wife Mary Morrison and his family lived in the Lettermore Mull area and later the Isle of Ulva before in 1792 settling in lowland Blantyre, Lanarkshire where David Livingstone was born in 1813.The highland Clan Maclea Livingstones of Western Argyllshire were ardent Jacobites during the Rebellion of 1745 and supporter of Bonnie Prince Charlie and his exiled Father James Stuart. A distant relative of mine Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern, Argyllshire served as a young man in the Jacobite Appin, Argyll Regiment of the Appin Stewarts who were part of Bonnie Prince Charlies Army from 1745-1746. He became famous in Argyllshire for having rescued the Appin Stewart Regiment banner from the Battlefield after the last standard bearer had fallen at the Battle of Culloden in April of 1746.

The lowland aristocratic Livingston family connected to Stirlingshire, Scotland has definitely more history behind them in lowland Scotland and in the medieval period in Scotland were closely connected to the Royal family of Scotland. They lost their titles some centuries back for supporting the Jacobite Stuarts struggle to regain the throne and have largely died out, though there are still some Livingstons out there who may be connected that old family line that was related to them somehow I suspect including a branch that still exists apparently in New York State descended from Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor of Duchess County, New York.

It is important to note that there were other lesser known Livngstons who were ordinary scottish folk who adopted the name Livingston long ago but have no connection either to the Stirlingshire family or the highland maclea Livingstone family. The DNA testing is probably helping to identify some these lesser known lowland Livingston families. And as I mentioned a number of LIvngstons of Ulster Ireland Livingston origin have been tested and it is possible that one of them might be a match with you given that you have some information or suspect that your Livingston family originated in Ireland. Have you talked to relatives who might also have heard of an Irish connection to your family. I learned in the beginning of my family research from consulting with other relatives who had been working on the my Livingston family research before me and thus were very helpful with sharing what they knew.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Livingstone the village dates back to 12 th century

Postby Greg Livingston » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:29 pm

As Donald says above, our clan has never been a big "showy" clan like the Campbells, Stewarts, and others but we have been involved with quite a bit in the history of Scotland, both Lowland and Highland branches. On the Lowland side do a search on Callendar House which was a Livingston stronghold at one time. Or Mary Queen of Scots, one of her handmaidens while in exile in France was Mary Livingston. I read somewhere that a Livingston was among the guards when she was imprisoned. Don't forget about Dr. David Livingstone who is famous for his exploration of southern African as a cartographer, medical doctor, explorer, and a great foe to the slave trade where he was instrumental in getting various tribal chiefs to stop selling people to the slave traders. There are several stories on the main pages here about our clan and various periods of history. One example is Donald Livingstone at Culloden. There are many more and continue up through the present time. The Livingstons of New York were instrumental in the formation of the United States. Robert was on the committee to draft the Deceleration of Independence, Phillip signed it, and William signed the Constitution. I know of two Livingstons that were awarded the Medal of Honor, one during the Civil War posthumously and one in Viet Nam who went on to become a Major General in the USMC. Mostly our clan is associated with Christianity. After-all, our Chief Niall Livingstone of Bachuil, Baron of the Bachuil, Corab of St. Moluag, Abbot of Lismore, and Chief of Clan MacLea. The Bachuil referred to is the Bachuil Mor or great staff of St. Moluag which has been in his family for centuries. Corab refers to the successor of St. Moluag as the Abbot or religious leader of Lismore. All of this adds up to quite a lot for such a little clan. Oh, and by the way, we are also related to the Bushes of Texas, Nos. 41 and 43 as well.

These are just some of the more well known things about our clan from the early ages. Most of what we have been about has been "behind the scenes" so to speak. More the supporters of those who made history and became well known. So, careful searching will show you that while small we are very well known.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
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