Poropotank Creek Livingston

[KJ7FMK]

Hello,

My name is Robin Livingston looking for a connection between the Poropotank Creek group and Scotland. I have completed Y-DNA (FTDNA) and autosomal testing (FTDNA & Ancestry), Big Y-700, and termainal haplogroup. I am a biologic White. Many cousin matches take my Livingston line through NC and VA to at least John "the Vestryman" Livingston (Abt 1688-1762) King and Queen Co, VA. I have cousin matches to PA, NY and Canadian Livingstons. I am hoping this group could help take/confirm a few matches to Scotland. The following Ancestry.com users have trees into Canada connecting to surname Livingston:

rbschock: > Myles Livingston May 1855 Ontario, Canada married to Emma Worden d. Dec 1923 Saginaw, MI > John Livingstone 1828 Canada - 12 Jul 1918 Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Robert Hatch: Daniel Donald Livingston Apr 1731 Argyll, Scotland - 1793 Augusta, Greenville, Ontario, Canada married to Margaet McIntyre 1730 Scotland? - 1788

C E Wortman: > Andrew Davidson 1790 Renfrewshire, Scotland - 12 Jan 1842 York, New Brunswick, Canada married to Jean Jane Livingston 1792 Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland - 4 Jan 1886 Stanley, York, New Brunswick, Canada.

Martin Swinton: > Daniel Donald Livingston 4 Apr 1731 Argyll, Scotland - 1793 Augugta, Greenville, Ontario, Canada married to Margaret McIntyre 1730-1788

aljordan128: > Donald Livingston 1751 Scotland - 1840 Queens County, Prince Edward Island, Canada married to Mary McQueen? (1756 - ?)

logandonna: > John Greenshutter Graham 1758 Argyll, Scotalnd - Aug 1844 Ontario, Canada married to Nancy Livingstone 1782 Argyll, Scotland - 1867 Ontario, Canada

thank you for your consideraton, RLL

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Robin,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum.
My best hunch is that you may be descended from a lowland Scottish Livingston who settled in 17th century Virginia possibly linked to a branch of the old Stirlingshire Livingston family.
I don't know any of those folks mentioned who did genealogy with ancestry.com but I know that some of their Livingston ancestors are of Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone ancestry. Miles Livingston mentioned was a grandson of my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston a native of Morvern Parish, highland Western Argyllshire. Some Livingston males related to the Livingston family groups mentioned on your list have done the familytreedna but they are of Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone origin. They originate from a Western Argyllshire Mconlea (Mclea) clan who only relatively recently (mid 1700's) completely changed their clan name to Livingstone. Your Poropotank Livingston ancestors and other Livingstons connected to this Livingston family group have a different origin as I mentioned to you cousin how contacted us here earlier. And as a result Y chromosome DNA testing has found that you and other Livngstons who have a family history linking themselves to the early Colonial Livingston settlers who settled in Virginia have much different DNA results than those Livingstons who have been done Y Chromosome Testing who are of documented highland Western Argyllshire. The Propotank Livingston history also seems to indicate their origins are not in the highlands but as far as is known possibly are connected with Livingstons that resided in lowland Stirlingshire. (See my earlier discussion with your cousin regarding the Propotank LIvingstons here at the forum).
If I understood correctly you DNA results indicate your are a SNP U106 Livingston. Many of the highland Western Argyllshire Maclea LIvingstons that have done the familytreedna Y chromosome are actually P-312 which is another SNP of M 269 and those with P312 would also have substantial marker by marker differences with your results and are not to your Livingston family group. Some have other Celtic family related results but none so far are U106 at least amongst those descendants of Livingston families that resided in the 1700's and 1800's in the parishes of Highland Western Argyllshire which include most of the Livingston families those people you listed from ancestry.com are descended from. There are other Livingstons who believe they are of Poropotank Livingston ancestry who have been tested via familytreedna and who have done the Y chromosome test who also are apparently U 106.

I wish I could shed more light on your Poropotank Livingston origins but I am quite sure that when your Livingston ancestor arrived in Virginia in the 1600's that your Livingstons descended from an old lowland Livingston family with its own unique history possibly linked with an old Stirlingshire Livingston family. But without definite proof then that is just speculation on my part.All I have seen regarding the original Propotank Livingston settler is that story about his connection the old Stirlingshire family. I would assume but don't know with 100 percent certainty your descended from the 17th century Scottish Livingston settler thought to be perhaps of Stirlingshire, Scottish origin , but I think that it is certainly a possibility.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society.

See earlier response to Catharine's message of May 6, 2019 regarding Poropotank LIvingstons
Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons
Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 06, 2019 1:00 pm

Hi Catharine,
I am exploring the notion that your Livingston ancestors in Virginia and later South Carolina are connected to a John Livingston 1613-1704 the 6th titled Livingston of Dunipace of DUnipace, Stirlingshire, Scotland who may be the John Livingston who is recorded as having arrived with some other settlers in Virginia around 1650. The challenge however seems to be able prove somehow that John Orrell Livingston is for certain the son of John Livingston 1716-1752 and Frances Moscoe. One possible clue would be to establish for a fact that the Orrell family resided in King and Queen County, Virginia as one researcher has mentioned. I dont know why John's middle name was Orrell but I would think it quite likely there is some earlier family connection. Orrells I found out definitely were an old Virginia family and they well have lived in that part of Virginia at the same time.

Interestingly and complicating this early Virginia Livingston reach may be that more than one old Livingston family possibly two connected to Virginia with different blood lines has information that they are connected to the original John Livingston who settled in Virginia back in the 1650's connected to the Dunipace, Stirlingshire, Scotland Livingston family that was a branch of the old Callendar Livingston family. I am not certain about the second one because I have not found too much detailed ancestral line for them but they also believe they are connected to the early Livingstons that lived in Poropotank, Virginia. Hope to eventually figure out why there is more than one Livingston family line linking themselves to original Poropotank Virginia Livingston settlers. I think the best approach however for the moment is to try to understand as a best I can your and Robin's possible Poropotank LIvingston ancestry based on what the info available seems to be suggesting.


This may be your Livingston family of Dunipace, Stirlingshire, Scotland who later settled and resided in Poropotank Creek Virginia area going back to beginning of the 17th century
1. A Sir John Livingston according to early 17th century records had some early involvement with King James the First and the original London Company involved with the establishment of the Virginia Colony around 1606. I think one assumption is that this earlier John Livingston was the grandfather of John Livingston 6th of Dunipace, Stirlingshire if I have understood this correctly.

2. David Livingston 5th Livingston of Dunipace, Stirlingshire, Scotland went into bankruptcy in the 1730's

3. Sir John Livingston 1613-1704 ( 6th Livingston of Dunipace?) Records indicate that he was unable to pay his creditors being in debt and in consequence of that in 1635 lost his claim to his families Dunipace property. Information from the 1640's indicate that Sir John continued to experience financial problems and in December of 1750 a John Livingston is recorded as arriving in Virginia at this time which could be Sir John formerly of Dunipace. Again I don't know whether there any proof that this John Livingston was the 6th Livingston of Dunipace Sir John Livingston, but it could be. It is also known from a record that by the same year 1650 of his arrival a John Livingston was located on land situated along the Poropotank Creek. In 1653 John Livingston acquired 400 acres on the west side of Poropotank Creek.

4.John L b. 1654 New Kent County later King and Queen County, Virginia d. 1718 King and Queen County, Virginia
5. John Livingston b. 1688 King and Queen County, Virginia d. 1762 King and Queen County Virginia m. Margaret Todd
6. John Livingston b.1716 King and Queen County, Virginia d. 1752 Jamaica coast m. Frances Muscoe

The problem that I am finding connecting your John Livingston b.abt 1745 is that I can't find information proving that John Orrell Livingston is the son of John Livingston and Frances Muscoe. It appears from one source that his sons were Thomas Livingston, Moscoe and a John Livingston but this seems to suggest that this was not your John Livingston ancestor. The son Thomas appears to be according to one source the father of a William Todd Livingston. I can not find as yet definite proof that John Orrell Livingston and William Todd Livingston were first cousins. I think they both ended up same part of South Carolina if I understood correctly and that might indicate they are related in some way.

7. John Orrell Livingston b. 1745 Virginia d. 1825 Wilkes County, North Carolina m. Lucinda Martin (your Livingston ancestor who moved from Virginia to South Carolina)
8. John Livingston m. second wife Mary Dyson
9. Caroline Livingston 1841-1896

How does your cousin Robin's ancestral line differ from yours? I assume as a third cousin that you share the same ancestor John Orrell Livingston b. abt. 1745 in Virginia?

I noticed there is a book by Lucille Barco Coone called Livingstons of Virginia published in 1990. Apparently out of print and not easy to get a copy of.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Robin,

Here is more detailed information on John Livingston of Dunipace, Scotland linking him with the Poropotank Livingstones:

https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-John-Li ... 3523675229

I don't how many of the Poropotank LIvingstons who had done the Y Chromosome DNA test have been further tested to identify their SNP's but there apparently are others who have the SNP U 106. The original Stirlingshire Livingstons were said to descend from a Baron de Leving who is said to have originated from Hungary likely of Germanic origin before arriving in Scotland. The U 106 SNP may be present with men of Scottish ancestry with earlier Germanic or Nordic origins. And the DUnipace Livingstons are said to part of the Stirlingshire Livingstons connected ancestrally to Baron de Leving if the historical information is correct.
The one thing the familytreedna Y chromosome testing has done is to indicate the diverse ancestral origins of Livingston families and for that the diverse origins of people of Scottish origin. The same can be said when looking at the genetic results of families from England. Genetic testing results of those of ancient Scottish and English ancestry would no doubt reflect the Celts, Saxons, Norse and Norman settlement of the British Isles over the years.

With this list below you can see a number of different Livingston family tree DNA Y Chromosome match groups listed reflecting their distinct marker results. Included with these match groups is a Poropotank Livingston group representing several Livingstons like yourself with family history indicating they are ancestrally connected to the Poropotank Livingstons. From this chart which includes a marker by marker breakdown and in some case includes SNP info where a person had an SNP test, you can see at least one person in the Poropotank Livingston Y Chromosome match group is identified with SNP that is U 106 like yourself.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/li ... n=yresults

Looks like there are a good number of well informed Poropotank Livingston descendants some of whom done the family research and others DNA testing out there who if you can consult with them may be answer your questions better than I who has no family connection to the Poropotank Livingstons.

regards,

Donald

[Greg Livingston]

Donald,

You might want to update the link you use to this one. I noticed that my results and a few others weren't on the list using your link.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/li ... ycolorized