My Livingston(e) Line

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Ginger,

I dont know. There must be an explanation why they are not in the 1920 Census but i dont really know what it is. Yes it looks like as of 2007 Jefferson County requires proof of your relationship to the deceased before they hand own a death record. Now that is a bit difficult if that was your great grandfather. In that case do you have to provide birth and marriage records proving a connection? I guess you do. In Ontario we have death records copied and indexed into our archives up to the 1930's on microfilm so I have no problem finding my great-grandfathers 1933 death record. I would check with the State of Colorado and see what death records are available without restriction or if they have copied them for public access and up to what year is available for public viewing without restricting. They must have a public archibes with some death records available for viewing. Surely if your great grandfatther for example was born in 1864 and died in 1925 they arent going to say that record has to be restricted. Thats ridiculous. I thought that was just for people who born after 1910 or something like that. Surely you would think they would have some sort of reasonable cut off point for access to old death records.

Ok update. I checked out the Colorado State Archives. No death records. You could contact a LDS family history centre in your State and try to see if you have on microfilm deaths in the Colorado for the range of years when you think your ancestor died. If so then you can fill out a form and get them to order it for your viewing at their centre. Some libraries which have microfilm viewing facilities will order reels from the LDS for you and you can view the reels at the library. This may be an option. I could not however find them in their catologue.

regards,

Donald

[beadmom]

The Colorado archives guy really was nicely telling me that if I don't have all birth and death records going back to Donald I am....scr...out of luck. He was very helpful in other ways and very very nice and chatty.

I like the LDS idea. I went to their online site and struck out but I will try that route.

Thanks!

Ginger

[beadmom]

In following another discussion I saw that Donald was often interchanged with Daniel. I wonder if that would be true in the US as well as Scotland. There are a bunch of Colorado records for two separate Daniel Livingstons....

Ginger

[beadmom]

Did Donald go by Daniel?

Why did he go straight to Georgia when he got in? (I did get it narrowed down to probably Augusta) Did he already have friends/family there from the Ballachulish quarry? (There are/were slate quarries in GA.) I think the move to Colorado may be tied into the quarry system. He found a better job and/or a quarry for sale in CO via the grapevine in GA?

Where did he and the English girl meet? On the ship? ( Mary A, listed on the CO census is listed as born in England.)

Such a lot of work. Such a lot of fun.

Ginger

[beadmom]

It crossed my mind the other day, were there Livingstons that came from the English Livingstons and were not McLeas that ended up in Scotland?
Are there places I should be looking to find anything back further than 1802 Donald?

Random thoughts.

Ginger

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Ginger,

No your Livingstons are of highland Scottish origin and were originally an ancient gaelic family Mconlea/Mclea family that like others in Western Argyll by the mid 1700's began to change their name to Livingston or Livingstone. I will get back to you on your other question regarding Donald Livingston b. 1802 tomorrow. I am not at home and dont have my info handy.

regrards,

Donald

[beadmom]

Good.. I like being Scottish. It plays well with my Irish/Welch side.

Ginger

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Ginger,

There arent any surviving baptismal or birth records for Donald Livingston b.1802 of West Laroch, Ballachullish unfortunately. Donald and family were likely Episcopalian at this period as they were later on in the records at least at West Laroch and almost certainly attended St James Episcopalian in Ballachulish with the other Episcopalian Livingstons we find in the St. James church records and cemetery stone info from Ballachulish, Argyllshire. Early Episcopalian records in Western Argyll are sparse and the Church of Scotland parish records are of little help in the case of your early Livingston family from Balachulish

Presumingly based on the DNA test results there were at least two Maclea Livingstone family groups living in Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area. If my theory is correct based upon local historic account there was one family of Livingstones descended from an old John Mclea family that had been there for centuries and other Mclea Livingstones who arrived more recently before or during the 1800's I have recently found a third Mclea Livingston family that lived in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area who only arrived in the late 1860's being originally from the Savary-Keil Morvern area. So in viewing the DNA results where Livingston families in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area show marked differences in results this should not be entirely surprising given that I had already found one family in the Lettermore-Ballachulish who have not been yet tested that upon closer inspection were recent arrivals to the Lettermore-Ballachulish area in or around the late 1860's and were acccording to the census records originally from Savary and Keil in Morvern Parish, Argyllshire some miles from Lettermore-Ballachulish. This the present day family did not actually know as they assumed their ancestors had always lived at Ballachulish itself. So these are kind of things we should watch for when studying the Livingston families that lived at Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area and intrepreting the results of the DNA tests of their ancestors.

In the case of your West Laroch/Ballachulish Livingston family tests the results are very different from the one other tested from the Ballachulish-Glencoe area so I would assume that one explanation for that is that one family of Livingstons is of the old Maclea Livingston family that the local history suggested lived in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area for centuries and the other is a Maclea Livingstone family group that arrived in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area in a later century. I just dont know at this point how long your Ballachulish Maclea Livingstons resided at West Laroch and in the Ballachulish area. All I know from the census records is that your ancestor Donald Livingston was born in 1802 in Ballachulish but we know nothing of his parents except that they must have lived in the Balachulish area possibly even at the slate village at West Laroch. That slate mine was in operation for quite a while before your ancestor Donald Livingsotn b.1802 was born. So who knows how far back your family lived in Ballachulish. But I cant prove whether your family or the other Maclea Livingston family tested that lived in the Ballachulish-Glencoe area are descended from the original Mclea family mentioned in the local history of the Ballachulish area. ANotherwards based on the results we have two different Livingston families that lived in the Ballachulish-Glencoe area and I dont know which one is descended from the older Maclea Livingstone family in area and which one is decended from a more recent arrival to the Ballachulish-Glencoe area. All I really know is that both Maclea Livingstone families that were tested in this situation resided in the Ballachulish-Glencoe area and were living in this area almost certainly prior to 1800, but which one is the original Mclea family that lived in the Ballachulish area that is the question in my mind.

Regardless it is wonderful for the Society to have been able to test two Livingstons whose decendants lived within in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area I am myself researching and thank you and the other family for making this possible. There is always the possibility that more descendants of those Mclea Livingstones how lived in the Lettermore-Ballachulish-Glencoe area of Western Argyll will join our DNA project. I am hoping that genealogical research ultimately can be of help to Andrew and Kyle and the Maclea Livingstone Society DNA Project in helping them to unlock the mysteries of our clan in Western Argyll and to better understand the results.

regards,

Donald

[beadmom]

Thanks Donald!

I am planning a trip to go there next year so will find out from all of you what questions to ask. I have found in the past that sometimes being face to face helps a lot. People remember more over a warm fire and a pint.

At present my trip funds took a big hit as I have a donkey at the vet that is about to become a golden donkey. I think he's going to top the $1000 mark *sigh* but he's part of the family. (I wonder how that DNA works out?) Still. I'll get there some how. I might have to ditch most of France. C'est la vie!

I am closely following what I can understand of the threads so I can learn the mechanics of piecing the information together and the history of the whole bunch(es). They make good reading at the vet.

I really appreciate all the time you take for us/me.

Ginger

[Kyle MacLea]

Good work, Donald, and Ginger: Keep on the look out for more potential Ballachulish lines to test. it may be if another family has even better records we could establish which Ballachulish family was which and make further discoveries down the road. For now, it's a waiting game, but our waits have been getting much shorter, and the payoffs much sweeter, of late!

Thanks, all!

Kyle=