Randomly Acquired Information

[Roberta Ann]

Hi Donald;

Does this help.

http://www.scotsfind.org/burgesses_access/burgesses.pdf

Roberta

[Roberta Ann]

1779 Mull Census - Sheabach - Parish # 156

Neil age 40
Angus age 4
Donald age 2
also, Neil's wife, Mother and 4 daughters

The Angus who came to Cape Breton was born 1773. Could this be that Angus?

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Roberta,

Sorry I just noticed that you found this. This looks very interesting. Always exciting to find an old list which might contain information on Livingstons. Certainly there were Livingstons in Edinburgh and nearby towns in the 1700's that I a m curious as to their origins. I look forward to looking though this.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Roberta,

I think that the Angus in the 1779 census for Sheabach,Mull, could be the same Angus who is included in the 1841 census for Jura, address Urigaig, Jura, where he is listed as an army pensioner, age around 60 + years. This is the last time I can find Angus on any UK site, or anywhere else for that matter, see past correspondence from Keith Livingstone in Oz on the same subject.
Also on the 1841 census are his wife Margaret, sons James and Hugh, and daughters Ann and Jean (appears as Jane on occasions ).
There appears to be a bit of a discrepancy on the age of Angus, but, most other info. available, eg. his wife and childrens names, appears to indicate this could possibly be the same Angus who was resident in Jura in the 1841 census,

John Livingstone

[Roberta Ann]

Hi John;

I believe that the Angus, with whom I referenced, is the Angus b. 1773; of Bras d'Or.

1826 Cape Breton # 3120 NSARM MF 15799
Angus Livingstone
Petition to Kempt: Petitioner is a native of Scotland, age 53, is married and has eight children. He received from Gov. Ainslie a lot on Great Bras d'r where he was the first settler. He served in the navy on the Royal George and also in the local Militia. He asks a grant of 100 acres conferred on him and of another 100 acres on the outside of the fishing lots. Note: approved.

1820 Cape Breton # 2394
Angus Livingstone
Petition to Ainslie: Petitioner, a native of Scotland is married and has eight children. He has lived in Cape Breton since September 1819. He served in the Navy. He asks a lot on the west side of Bouladerie. Note: Recommended name "Kilninian"

Consequently, age 53 in 1826 would make b. 1773.

Regards

Roberta

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
I concur with Roberta our Nova Scotia Livingston expert on those old document details regarding the Angus Livingston who took up settlement at Boularderie, Bras d'or Cape Breton.
Also the Angus Livingston born abt. 1773 that settled in Boulardie, Bras d'or, Cape Breton and is the ancestor of Livingstons of families from area and possibly one or two Livingston family groups in Australia. Most importantly we have information from his Nova Scotia land petition from the early 1800's that served in the Royal Navy not inthe army and was at some time during the Napoleonic Wars serving aboard the Royal George a ship which a flag ship of Channel fleet during that time. Angus named his property in Cape Breton "Kilninian" presumingly because he originated from Kilninian Parish where a significant number of Livingstons that settled in Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island Canada, orignated.

I am actually trying to locate Keith because we seem to possibly share a highland Livingston ancestor at some point in time possibly connected to a Mull or Morvern family. I have not been in touch for some time, but would like to let him know about our possible ancestral connection in Western Argyllshire. We have been contacted at the forum by descendants of old Angus whose family are still connected to his original property in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and who are familiar with his family and the local cemetery where they are buried which I found quite interesting. I am hoping at some point to determine if my Livingston ancestor is distantly related to this family and also at the same time if we can verify without doubt there connection to Keith. INterestingly I have been contacted a year or more ago by a lady from Australia who had detailed documentation proving that Angus Livingstons grandson left Cape Breton, Nova Scotia in the 1840's and settled in Australia. I wish I had got her to send me copies of that information for our Clan society genealogy research as it should prove helpful when we are contacted by other Aussie Livingstons with a possible connection to old ANgus.

I was also hoping to take another look at Keith's Livingston family research in light of the possible connection to my Livingston ancestors and others in our so called Parker Livingston group. Anyways hope to hear from him soon.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Roberta/Donald,
The info posted below, has mainly been verified by Brian Thomson at http://www.scotsfamily, I am not 100% sure if this is the correct Angus/Margaret, although, it appears correct.
From this info, Keith is descended from Gavin, born 1834, my side from John, born 1832, parents John Livingstone and Agnes Edmiston, then resident in West Lothian, of this I am certain, I have a papertrail from John and Agnes to the present.
There are still major gaps in the families descended from John and Agnes, I am waiting for additional research from http://www.scotsfamily, which will hopefully fill in the gaps I have been unable to sort out.
Hopefully this info will be of use to someone,

John


Angus Livingstone-Margaret Hall ( or McPhail).

Angus Livingstone, born about 1775, possibly at Siaba (sp?), Isle of Mull. Married Margaret Hall or McPhail.
Angus father possibly Neil, mother possibly Katherine ??.
Address in 1841 census, Urigaig, Isle of Jura.

Angus/Margarets family:

1.John, born Mull 24th. July. 1832, died Kilmeny, Islay, 6th. July 1858.
Married Agnes Edmiston at Livingstone, West Lothian on 27th.Oct. 1827, Agnes was born abt. 1797 at Blackburn, West Lothian.
Agnes died at Stirling in 1868, her son Andrew registered the death. Andrew appears to have been a customs officer of some sort.

2.Betty, born abt.25th. April 1807 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeonl. Married Robert McLachlan, mariner from Lochaline27th.Feb. 1843.
Daughter Margaret born 30th.Nov. 1849 at Morvern.
Son William born 28th.July 1855 at Morvern.
Daughter Ann born 08th.Sept. 1857 at Morvern.
Son Donald born 14th.Dec. 1862 at Morvern.????
Assuming the above is correct, Betty would have been around 54 years old when her last child was born.

4.Cirsty, born abt.29th. Oct. 1809 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon, married Peter McArthur 18th.Dec. 1827 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon.
Son John born 18th.Sept. 1831, at either Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon or Morvern??.
Daughter Ann born 08th.Sept.1857.

5.Duncan, born abt.30th. Sept. 1814 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon, possibly married ???? Cameron on 25th.Dec.1843.

6.Name unknown, possibly James

7.Hugh, born abt.06th. June 1819 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon, last known at 23, James Street, Calton, Glasgow, employed as a weaving utensil maker. Married to Jane Shannon??, born abt. 1820, at Fortuilham, Invernesshire??, they had three children in 1861 census. They also a son Hugh, who died 13.09.1859 age 13 years.
Cannot find Hugh on any further UK/Scotland census.
1861 Scotland Census,address as above, has the following;
Hugh, 40 years old, weaving utensil maker.
Jean, 41 years old.
Margaret, 17 years old.
Robert, 12 years old.
Duncan, 3 years old.

8.Ann, born abt. 1824, married John McPhail,on 02nd. Feb. 1841, at Kilmore and Kilbride. He appears to have been a boat builders labourer.
Ann died 08th.July 1860 in the Govan Poorhouse, her death was registered by her brother Hugh.
Her normal place of residence was Orchard Place, Govan, Glasgow, she is buried at Eastern Necropolis,Glasgow, which is located at 1264 Gallowgate, Glasgow.

9.Jane, born abt.18th. Jan. 1829 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon..

John/Agnes family.

1.James Angus, born abt. 1830, married Flora McDougall at Kilmeny abt. 1852.
Twin sons born 18th.Jan. 1855 at Kilmeny, one appears to have
died at birth, Andrew survived.
Unknown, born abt. 1858.
Daughter Agnes, born abt. 1860.
Son Hugh born abt. 1864.
Daughter Isabella born abt. 1872.
Son James born abt. 1874.

2.John, born abt. 26th.Aug. 1832 at Blackburn, West Lothian, died 27th.April 1915 at Caol ila, Kilmeny.
Married Mary McKellar on 27th.Jan. 1871 at Klichoman, Kilmeny. Mary died at 87 years old at Caol Ila, Kilmeny.
1891 census shows John and Mary residing at Killarrow and Kilmeny.

3.Andrew Mitchell, born 11th.Jan. 1829 at Livingstone, West Lothian, married Margaret Young at Stirling on 01st.Feb. 1860.

4.Gavin(e), born 30th.Dec. 1834. Married Catherine McLean at Campbeltown.
Son Andrew Mitchell born abt. 1865, Andrew married Jeanie Ritchie Hendry at Camlachie, Glasgow. He died at 18, New Street, Glasgow of a fractured skull on 11th.Dec. 1903. Occupation lodging house superintendent. Andrews/Jeanies son Gavin born 24th.March 1896 at Calton, Glasgow.
Son Neil born abt. 1864-65.
Neil married Elizabeth Cooper, 06th. Sept. 1886 in Glasgow.
Their daughter Elizabeth, dob unknown, Elizabeth married John McGibbon,a 27 year old ships stoker of 86, McLellan St., Glasgow. Elizabeth, a 21 year old thread mill worker, of 15, West Campbell St., Paisley. Neil died 1941.
Their son James Cooper born 21st. April 1895 at 2, Baird Place, Newington, Edinburgh
Their son Neil McLean born 16th. Sept. 1899 at 1, Lochview Terrace,St. Georges, Edinburgh.
Daughter Catherine born abt. 1871.
Daughter Mary born abt. 1873.
1881 census has Gavin working as an insurance agent in Stirling.
1891 census has Gavin residing at 24 and 26, James St., Calton, Glasgow, occupation lodging house keeper.

5.Neil, born 10th. June 1842 at Jura or Colonsay, as far as I know, birth was Jura, registration at Colonsay.

John/Mary family.

1.John, born abt. 23rd.Oct. 1871 at Kilmeny, died 16th.dec. 1928 at 9,Antigua Street, Greenock, Scotland. Married Margaret McGilvray at Port Askaig on 06th.March 1896.

2.Catherine, born abt. 11th.April 1873 at Port Askaig Hotel, Kilmeny. Married Malcolm McEachern at Port Seton, Tranent Parish on 19th.march /1901.

3.Ann, born abt. 17th.Oct. 1874 at Kilmeny.

4.Agnes, born abt.26th.Nov. 1876, married Dugald McIndeor on 29th.Nov. 1904 at Caol Ila.

5.Mary, born abt. 1877.

6.Neil, born abt. 1878-79, died at Caol Ila 05th.Dec. 1887

John/Margaret family.

1.Barbara, born 21st.Nov. 1897 at 11,Regent Street, Greenock, married a police officer, had two daughters, and lived in Greenock all her life.
Barbara appears in the 1901 Islay census, presumably on holiday with her g/father and aunt.

2.Margaret, born 27th.April 1896 at 11, Regent Street, Greenock, Maggie never married, she spent most of her life at Port Askaig, with a few spells in Greenock. Maggie died abt. 1968-70.

3.Catherine, born 10th.Feb. 1899 at 11,Regent street, Greenock, married Archie McGilp on 10th.Nov. 1925, Archie was a gamekeeper, and Kate a shop assistant. They had 3 sons and 1 daughter, and spent most of their married life on the Scottish borders south of Hawick.

4.John, born abt. 1901 at 9, Antigua Street, Greenock, died 16th.June 1945. Married Ellen McLaughlin.

5.Donald, born 18.09.1902 at 9, Antigua Street, Greenock, married Charlotte Martin at St. Columba Gaelic Church, Greenock in 1945. Had two children, myself and my sister.

6. Neil, born 13.08.1904 at 11, Regent St.???, Greenock, never married, was employed by the merchant navy all his life, died at sea abt. 1962-3.

7.Duncan, born abt. 1907 at Regent Street???, Greenock, died 10th.July 1908.

8. Mary, born abt. 1910 at 9, Antigua St., Greenock, married Joe Smith abt. 1931 at the Gaelic Church, Greenock. Had one daughter, Mary died at around 98 years old. Mary was a waitress and Joe a joiner, and later foreman joiner in Scotts Shipbuilding and Engineering Co., Greenock.

Further information

Agnes Edmiston was born abt. 1797 in Blackburn, West Lothian, her parents were John Edmiston and Catherine Mitchell. Agnes died at Stirling on 22nd.Nov. 1868, her death was registered by her son Andrew Mitchell Livingstone.
In the 1851 census, John and Agnes were living at Esknish, Islay, in the parish of Kilmeny. John is listed as a 55 year old hand loom weaver, Agnes is listed as being 54 years old. Two children are residing with them, Gavin(e), at 16 years old, apprenticed to his father, and Neil, who is listed as having been bed ridden for at least a full year. Given the birth[laces of the children, the family spent time in Blackburn, West Lothian, and either Jura or Colonsay, prior to moving to Islay.
John livingstone, woollen and cotton weaver, died in Kilmeny, Islay on 6th.July 1858, death was registered by his son James. Johns age is given as 52 years, and his parents are listed as Angus, who was a Chelsea Pensioner, and Margaret Hall/McPhail. John is buried in Kilmeny burial ground.
Johns place of death was Tirvagan, Kilmeny, his widow Agnes is listed in the 1861 census, at Tirvagan, with her son John, 28 years old, and her grandson Andrew.
There appears to be a discrepancy between Johns birth date on the 18521 census, and on his death certificate, it would appear the death certificate is the more accurate document. Kilfinchen and Kilvickeon parish register has a baptism entry for John on 7th.Feb. 1805, parents Angus Livingstone in Kilpatrick, and Margaret Hall/McPhail.
It appears Hall could be Margarets mothers maiden name, apparently it was quite common to use this instead of the paternal name.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that. I realise that are few people connected to this Angus Livingston that lived at Jura in 1841 as well as this Gavin Livingston or his kin. I think I had another query about Gavin Livingston recently. At that time, I had a chance to trace this family line including Gavin Livingston and the many places this family group lived and indeed it does check out in the census records. The connection with Angus Livington b. 1773 of Bouldelarie, Bras d,or Cape Breton however is unlikely. There is no evidence that Angus returned to Scotland and was in Jura in 1841. One of his sons returned to Scotland in the 1820's but his name was not Angus. From my research of the census records there is no doubt that Keith' s ancestor was the Angus Livingston in the 1841 census you mentioned just not the one that from Kilninian Parish, Mull that settled in 1816 in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia in present day Canada.

This being said I did have some luck determing that there are Livingstons in Australia who are infact related to the old Angus Livingston b.1773 of Boularderie, Cape Breton but through his grandson. This ladyfrom Australia had names that matched up to Angus Livingstons family in Cape Breton. The grandson that went to Australia in the 1840's was a son of Alexander or Archibald Livingston. I forget which one. They were sons of Angus b. 1773 and those oldtimers are buried in a cemetery in Bras d'or, Victoria County, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada. I do think however this lady is related to Keith.

In my view the census information research is flawless regarding Gavin Livingston's family line but I consider it highly unlikely that the Angus Livingston who is no doubt Keith's ancestor in the 1841 Census is the same Angus Livingston b. 1773 from Kilninian Parish, Mull who was granted land at Boularderie, Bras d'or, Cape Breton. There is virtually no information from the family researchers in Nova Scotia of old Angus returning to Scotland. I think it assumed that he died and his buried in an now unmarked grave near two -of his sons Alexander and Archibald in a cemetery in the Bras' d'or, Victoria County, Cape Breton.

I dont know if helps Jim or hinders but I thought I should clarify that I spent some time going through the Gavin Livingston research and all makes sense and look good but I just wanted to clarify that that his Angus Livingston ancestor is unlikely the one that settled in Cape Breton but the Angus Livingston that was mentioned in the 1841 census at Jura in the Gavin Livingston research.

I am hoping that eventuall access to the orignal Chelsea Pension records will confirm that the Angus Livingston in the Chelsea Pension Records is not a sailor who served aboard the Channel Flag Ship Royal George which the Angus Livingstonb. 1773 and settled in Cape Breton Nova Scotia was. Perhaps there were two Angus Livingstons one born 1773 and one born 1775 in Argyllshire that served during the Napoleonic Wars one in the army and one in the Navy. Hopefully the Chelsea records which are being copied for easy online access by the National Archives of Britain by 2011 will shed some light on our Angus Livingston or Angus Livingstons. I have found some record books for the Royal George during the Napoleonic Wars but may only list wages and there is no guarantee that Angus will be found in them. They are not entirely complete I suspect. Also given that he was not an officer aboard the Royal George means their may not be alot to be found in terms of information as he was an ordinary sailor.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jim,

The other important piece in this whole Angus Livingston puzzle is that Angus Livingston of Boularderie, Bras d'or Victoria County, Cape Breton born 1773 in Mull is infact according to an 1838-1841 Cape Breton Census as resdiding at Boularderie at time this other Angus Livingston is residing in Jura according to ANgus Livingston Cape Breton researcher Ann Capstick. This would tend to further reinforce the notion that somehow researchers in the past have mistaken the two Angus Livingstons somehow.

This being said. Keith and anyone related to him of Livingston origin is without doubt of Western Argyllshire Livingston origin though there family lived in the both highlands and lowlands. Without going into details in this message Keith is connected to a group of highland Livingstons of Western Argyllshire Livingston ancestry we refer to as the Parker Livingston Group. Typically the ancestors of this group lived in Mull and neighbouring Morvern or adjacent islands some centuries ago.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,
I am also part of the Parker-Livingstone project, see ID # 127272, I have no doubts about where we originated, my only doubt, was if I had the correct Angus and Margaret.
Going on Johns birth info, I think Angus born 1775 is probably correct.
I have also communicated recently with a lady in Australia, who is researching Cirsty, Angus and Margarets daughter, Cirsty had married a Peter McArthur in Morvern. Cirsty appears to have died quite young, Peter then remarried twice, and emigrated to Australia.

What about this Angus, could he be the one who emigrated to Canada, he is the only other one I can see in the Mull Genealogy site with the correct birth year.

Angus LIVINGSTON

Birth : abt 1773, Argyllshire, Scotland
Baptised :
Died :
Buried :
Father : Unknown LIVINGSTON
Mother :
Marriage : Unknown
Children Lachlan
Archibald
Alexander
Mary
Roderick

Regards,

John