My Livingston(e) Line

[beadmom]

He's enjoying it a lot... My Dad too.

Now Grandma has got me working on her McCarter line. I warned her that some McCaters married Livingstons..so she and grandpa could be related way way back .
THey both thought that was pretty funny!

Ginger

[beadmom]

Dear Ginger:

We do have a Donald Livingston in our archives that belonged to our Minnehaha Lodge No. 5
He was initiated an Entered Apprentice on 03-14-1887; passed to a Fellowcraft on 05-18-1887 and was Raised a Master Mason on 05-24-1887. He Demitted from Minnehaha Lodge No. 5 on 03-14-1895 and held no offices in that Lodge.
I hope this will help you .

Larry D. Carlson
Grand Lodge of South Dakota

[Kyle MacLea]

Yet another find! I need to find me some of these super-helpful people out there!

Kyle=

[beadmom]

I am going to look for a marriage record in South Dakota instead of Georgia.

Ginger

[Kyle MacLea]

Hi All,

John Livingston of Australia asked me to pass this on. He may comment more later!

Hi Folks

Sorry I have not had a chance to respond/add to this discussion before now, but I rarely get the opportunity to review it. I am the “Australian” Livingston mentioned earlier. I have been unable to progress my research much beyond where things were about 4 years ago, but though it might be timely to update what I do know – hope this helps.

As Donald and Kyle have mentioned, my great, great grandfather was James Livingston (born approximately 1805 – not sure of the exact date – his death certificate suggest this would be the date). He was married to Isabella (Bell) Clark (DOB around 1806). James and Isabella were married in Lismore, Appin or Duror (the marriage certificate does not specify beyond this), on the 30th of April 1837. James and Isabella had five children, John, Duncan, Anne, James (my great grandfather) and Mary. Their christening information is recorded at St John’s Church in Ballachulish (I believe). James was a quarrier at the Ballachulish Slate Quarry and appears in the 1841 and 1851 census with his children (listed above). James and Isabella emigrated to Australia in 1852 on the Marco Polo with a number of other families from Glencoe/Ballachulish, including my great, great grandparents and grandmother (Annie McInnes, whose parent’s emigrated to Australia in 1852 as well – Duncan and Anne Stewart). Anne’s (Stewart) mother (Mary Stewart) also emigrated to Australia on the same boat. Anne’s Father, Duncan, Glencoe and both the Stewart and McInnes sides are buried on Eilean Munde. Duncan also worked at the slate quarry, and I am assuming the families would have know each other prior to emigrating, and subsequently got together when in Australia, with their children later marrying.

James’ parents are John Livingston and Mary nee Fraser. John and Mary were married in Lismore, Duror or Appin (again – the records do not show which specifically) on the 11th of November 1798. It is believed that John was either a farmer or crofter. James’ death certificate shows John as being a farmer? I have been unable to establish a date of birth or locate a death certificate for John or Mary.

It is believed that James had a brother John. When visiting six years back I was able to view a newspaper article at the Glencoe Museum that reported James’ and Isabella’s immigration – the report stated that James’ name was James ban Livingston and that he was leaving his brother John ban Livingston in Ballachulish? The newspaper reported that he (James) was married to Isabella and that they were departing on the Marco Polo, so I am assuming this to be the same person. There was no other James and Isaballa Livingston (as a couple) on the ship’s manifest for 1852 so I am thinking this is accurate.

Otherwise – I am at a loss. My father always used to say that his father used to say that we were related to Dr Livingston – but I guess that is probably what every Livingston says – who knows?

I have no idea what happened to John and Mary, or James’ brother John. I have scanned the records but have had very little luck unfortunately. I am also not sure if there were any other siblings. My DNA search has arrived at a number of other Livingston’s, but unfortunately, to-date, I have been unable to progress things with these folk.

Anyhows – hope this might be of assistance, and any information or insight that can been gleaned from the above is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

John

Just wanted to pass this on for any additional comments!

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John and Kyle,

I suspect that James Livingston's parents were the John and Mary Livingston residing at a tenant holding at North Cuil near Duror a few miles from Ballachuilish. John was born in 1774 and his wife Mary was born in 1781 according to the 1841 and 1851 Scottish census. I think this is John's ancestors John Livingston and Mary Fraser he mentioned. They are the only old John and Mary Livingston that lived in the Cuil=Duror-Ballachullish vicinity in the 1841-1851 period before James left for Australia in these census records. This John and Mary Livingston in the 1841 and 1851 census lived at North Cuil in the Cuil Bay area near Duror about five miles or so from slate quarry I would guess so it seems possible that a son or sons were at Laroch, Ballachulish. Regarding Mary Livingston b.1781 being born at Kilmallie, Inverness a quick of the 1851 records indicates that if this Mary Livingston was indeed a Fraser before her marriage, Inverness is likely place for a Fraser to have originated given there were tons of them in Inverness according to the 1851 census. So this Mary Livingston who lived about five miles from the quarry where James Livingston worked was born in Inverness in 1781 in the heartland of Fraser country as Inverness is known to be. Is this John and Mary Livingston the parents of James Livingston of Laroch, Ballachulish born in 1805. Quite possibly.

They apparently had a large family over the years the youngest being Jean b.1824, Mary b. 1827 and Rachel b.1829. according to the 1841 census. The 1851 census indicates that daughter Mary was born in Appin Parish not Duror Parish, though North Cuil where the family is living is in Duror Parish. John Livingston b. 1774 was born in Duror Parish but his daughter Mary and probably most of other children were likely born in Appin parish perhaps indicating that the family lived in Appin Parish in the 1820's and possibly before that and later moved to North Cuil in Duror Parish.



regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

I could be wrong but I think the original parish book on microfilm will give you the village where your ancestor James Livingston and Isabel Clarke in 1837 were married if we take the trouble to find a copy of the original parish book information. The original parish records books from Western Argyllshire I have had access to almost always give the name of obscure village where various Livingstons lived at the time of their marriage or the christening. I suspect we might be able to pinpoint the village where they lived unless for some odd reason it was not recorded which from my experience is unusual. Sometimes I cant make out the gaelic or spelling but usually there is some sort of information regarding the specific village of origin. Did you try Scotland's People. You can access a copy of the original parish book page for a fee from them. I would of thought the original 1837 entry for their marriage would have the name of the specific village in Duror, Appin or Lismore Parish or wherever their marriage was recorded. As their son Duncan was baptised at the Episcopalian Church at Ballachulish in 1839 and at that time their address recorded was Laroch quarry it seems probable they were at Laroch, Ballachulish at the time of their marriage.

I would like to take a look at the marriage record for John Livingston and Mary Fraser, 11, November 1798. If this were the John and Mary Livington I have located it would explain why their eldest child Rachel was born in 1829 if John was about 25 when he married and wife Mary Fraser b. abt. 1781 was about 17. Of course I need more proof which I hope to find. The fact that the Mary Livingston b.1781 in the census comes from Inverness where Frasers were abundant makes we suspect even more that this is James Livingston's parents.

regards,

Donald

[beadmom]

Last night I came home to find I had received a mailing tube from my father.

I opened it and found two HUGE certificates (Maybe 20 x 24). One a graduation and one a diploma (not sure why they are different) for Katherine Ann Livingstone, Grandpa Jack's sister, who I knew and loved, from the Colorado Women's College dated June 10, 1915.

Originals almost 100 years old.

Ginger

[Kaye Saunders]

Well, I’m finally here – I’m possibly the lost person from New Zealand – although my work email address is on the page that has the baptisms, marriages and burials for St John’s in Ballachulish. I couldn’t wait to join in the discussion, only to discover that I obviously haven’t been here in a while and hadn’t registered – so I had to control my excitement and wait until my membership had been activated.

I do hate to be one to dampen down the spirits, but Ginger, did Donald’s death certificate give his parents names, or have you got his marriage certificate giving parents names? Even, do you know Donald celebrated his birthday on 3 May? The reason I ask is that in the 1900 census there are two Donald Livingstone’s listed – both born May 1863 in Scotland. One is a stonecutter, arrived 1863 and is living in Jefferson, Montana, the other is the one you’ve all been discussing. So I’m looking to see which one had the parents of Dugald Livingstone and Catherine McDonald. I’ve also checked on ScotlandsPeople and there were 2 Donald Livingstone’s born in 1863. The Montana one would fit with the immigration mentioned from “Castle Garden” in dates.

By the way, they are there in the 1910 census – but under the name Levingston – but I’m not currently a member of Ancestry so I couldn’t download the census image.

I have just discovered the census records and was looking for my Donald Livingstone, born 3 May 1863 in Glasgow and was doing a google search for his family and after a couple of false starts I came up with this discussion – a whole 23 pages worth to read through – I couldn’t believe it. Do you know how long it takes to read through all those messages, and then to re-read them to make sure you understood them??

If your Donald is the son of Dugald and Catherine, then he is part of my line. Dugald is the brother of my great grandmother Janet/Jessie Saunders (nee Livingstone) who emigrated to New Zealand in 1860. But I’m afraid this is where it differs from what some of the others have said – sorry Donald (Canadian Livingstone). (I have been meaning to get information to you – just never got around to it – I did correspond and swap a lot of stuff with the late Rob Livingston.) Dugald and Jessie’s parents were Donald Livingstone, born about 1811, died before 1846, and Catharine McDonald (yes, another one), born about 1816 and died 27 Jan 1846. There was a further two children in the family but they died young – or at least I can’t find them after 1841. After their parents died they lived with their uncle Charles, and when Charles, his wife and family emigrated to New Zealand Jessie came with them. Dugald was supposed to as well, but stayed behind because he had a girlfriend (well, that’s the story on this side of the ocean). Dugald was born about 1835 and died 14 Apr 1899 in Govan – I have his death certificate if you want a copy of it. Catherine was born about 1843 and died 14 Mar 1890 in Ardchattan – I didn’t find a grave for her there when I visited.

1851 Census
East Laroch, Balachulish
Charles Livingston, head, mar, 33, labourer, Argyle, Lismore and Appin
Dorothey Livingston, wife, mar, 34, labourer’s wife, Argyle, Lismore and Appin
Dugald Livingston, son, 8, scholar, Argyle, Lismore and Appin
Mary Livingston, dau, 3, daughter, Argyle, Lismore and Appin
Dugald Livingston, nephew, 16, labourer, Argyle, Lismore and Appin
Jannet Livingston, niece, 12, Brother’s daughter, Argyle, Lismore and Appin

1841 Census
Laroch
Donald Livingston, 30, quarrier
Cathrine, 25
Dugald, 6
Peter, 4
Janet, 2
Alexr Martin, 15, quarrier

Charles and Donald had another brother John who stayed in Ballachulish and there are descendants of that family still there – I have met them and even went to Church with one of them and sat in the Livingston pew!! There may also be another brother Hugh and a sister, but we’ve never been able to prove it. There are no baptismal records for the 3 brothers – I was told when I visited that it was quite likely they had locum ministers over that period and that if they did record anything then it may be in their own books that may be in whatever parishes they ended up in.

Donald (born 1863) had a brother Charles (born 1868) and he also went to America – for a while. He married a Flora BELL in Sullivan, Maine on 17 Feb 1893. They had a son John Archibald, born 12 Dec 1893 in Sullivan. They then returned to Lanark, Scotland and had another 4 children. Donald and Charles had a further 7 siblings, 2 who died as children and another two who never married. I have lots of certificates for those too.

Ginger, glad you have the family story of the connection to Dr David – it’s in our family story too – but it is so hard to prove. But it is believed that my line comes from one of the brothers mentioned in the story about the 3 Livingstone brothers who cut down the skeleton of Jamie of the Glen – one went to Mull and became Dr David’s ancestor, one went somewhere else, and the third stayed in Ballachulish. The story is recorded in a book called “Tall Tales from an Island” I think – I’d have to check on it as it’s at home. The story was also told to one of the NZ relations when he visited relatives in Scotland during WWII – I have a transcript of the letter he wrote home when visiting them.

And Ginger, I love Diana Gabaldon’s books too – I have them all, and as audiobooks as well so I can listen to them when I’m driving (which I do a great deal!!).

Regards
Kaye

[beadmom]

You guys (and gals are amazing)...Thanks Kaye for caring enough to question and thanks Donald. I would have hated to have to start over....

I did also find a while back the marriage record for Donald and Mary...in Georgia.

The South Dakota Mason's records still have me a little puzzled but I am content with what I have!
I will be happy to go to Ballachulish and meet ANY Livingston(e)s

and Margaret who I adore....

Ginger