Hi John;
Yes, this is the Angus whom I referenced; earlier.
Livingstone, Archibald------------1825
Petition to Wallace: Petitioner is a native of Scotland, age 21, single; asks a lot on the North side of Bouladerie, near the entrance of the Bras d'Or. The lot formerly located to petitioner's brother, Lachlan, who resigned it and gone to Europe. Note: a fisher's lot. 100 acres. approved.
Livingstone, Lachlan --------------1820
Petition to Ainslie: Petitioner, a native of Scotland, is married and has one child. Has lived in Cape Breton about four months. He asks a lot on the south side of Great Bras d"Or. Note: recommended. Name "Frackit Hill".
In addition, I have a written document that says ---son of Alexander, Shipbuilder 1808-1890---Angus, Master Mariner disappeared in Australia about 1860. The veracity of this ducument has yet to be determined. It was written in the late 30's, early 40's by the husband of a relative who visited Scotland.
Regards;
Roberta
Randomly Acquired Information
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Roberta,
That is more or less the story I think I got from this lady from Australia. That is that a son of Angus Livingston's son Alexander departed for Australia in the mid 1800's. I dont recall the precise date in the mid 1800's. It may have been 1860. I think this is the extent of the Australian connection regarding old Angus Livingston's Cape Breton family. A grandson settled there apparently around 1860. I think a descendant of the grandson from Australia contacted me via the old forum a few years ago.
As for old Angus who settled in Cape Breton and later shows up with the above mentioned son ALexander and Archibald in the 1838-1841 Census of Cape Breton, I would suspect he did not end up in Australia in 1841. I think Ann Capstick would back me on that. The Angus Livingston at Jura in the 1841 is the ancestor of Gavin Livingston, Keith Livingston and Jim Livingston but has no Cape Breton, Nova Scotia in my oppinion.
regards,
Donald
That is more or less the story I think I got from this lady from Australia. That is that a son of Angus Livingston's son Alexander departed for Australia in the mid 1800's. I dont recall the precise date in the mid 1800's. It may have been 1860. I think this is the extent of the Australian connection regarding old Angus Livingston's Cape Breton family. A grandson settled there apparently around 1860. I think a descendant of the grandson from Australia contacted me via the old forum a few years ago.
As for old Angus who settled in Cape Breton and later shows up with the above mentioned son ALexander and Archibald in the 1838-1841 Census of Cape Breton, I would suspect he did not end up in Australia in 1841. I think Ann Capstick would back me on that. The Angus Livingston at Jura in the 1841 is the ancestor of Gavin Livingston, Keith Livingston and Jim Livingston but has no Cape Breton, Nova Scotia in my oppinion.
regards,
Donald
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Jim,
Yes thats the Cape Breton,Nova Scotia Angus Livingston Roberta and I have been talking about. Known sons that came to Cape Breton were Laughlin, Alexander, Archibald and Roderick. They were a family of boatbuilders and sailors I think.Son Roderick went back to Scotland early on. Some of descendants of Angus Livingston;s son Alexander have made contact with us in recently. A significant number of highland Argyllshire Livingstons settled what are today the Canadian provinces of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island.
regards,
Donald
Yes thats the Cape Breton,Nova Scotia Angus Livingston Roberta and I have been talking about. Known sons that came to Cape Breton were Laughlin, Alexander, Archibald and Roderick. They were a family of boatbuilders and sailors I think.Son Roderick went back to Scotland early on. Some of descendants of Angus Livingston;s son Alexander have made contact with us in recently. A significant number of highland Argyllshire Livingstons settled what are today the Canadian provinces of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island.
regards,
Donald
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Jim,
Indeed you are a part of Parker Livingston Group. As more Livingstons whose ancestors originated from Mull and Morvern are tested it is my theory that we are likely to see many more tend to gravitate to our DNA group.
I am hoping that we hear from more of our Australian Livingstons as they research their family history and genealogy. I actually spent some time going through Gavin Livingston's family line tracking his ancestors through the Scottish census records. That family really got around I must say throughout Scotland but I did find his family line to be well researched and accurate as far as the Scottish census info goes. Now I just have find my posting where I commented on Gavins family line back to Angus Livingston of Jura. Ocassionally I need to refresh my memory.
regards,
Donald
Indeed you are a part of Parker Livingston Group. As more Livingstons whose ancestors originated from Mull and Morvern are tested it is my theory that we are likely to see many more tend to gravitate to our DNA group.
I am hoping that we hear from more of our Australian Livingstons as they research their family history and genealogy. I actually spent some time going through Gavin Livingston's family line tracking his ancestors through the Scottish census records. That family really got around I must say throughout Scotland but I did find his family line to be well researched and accurate as far as the Scottish census info goes. Now I just have find my posting where I commented on Gavins family line back to Angus Livingston of Jura. Ocassionally I need to refresh my memory.
regards,
Donald
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
HI Jim,
The 1841 Scottish Census lists Angus Livingston as age 60 at Jura an Army pensioner as you stated. This census suggests he was born around 1781.
regards,
Donald
The 1841 Scottish Census lists Angus Livingston as age 60 at Jura an Army pensioner as you stated. This census suggests he was born around 1781.
regards,
Donald
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Jim,
From some genealogy information I was sent in the past I also thought that Keith has Mull Livingstone ancestry through a John Livingston b.1796 at Mull a weaver who was married to an Agnes Edmonston. This does not seem to work with Angus Livingston b. 1781 at Jura however so perhaps I was mistaken. I thought I had traced a line through the genealogy info sent to me from a John Livingston b. 1796 from Mull which would connect him to the Parker Livingston group that was married to an Agnes Edmonston, then a Gavin Livingston b. 1835 and then Andrew Mitchell Livingston of Stirling Stirlingshire and then a Gavin Livingston b.. 1896 at Glasgow. This family apparently had some connection to Keith's family or so I thought. Anyone related to this John Livingston b.1796 at Mull might very well be connected to our Parker Livingston group given the Mull Livingston connection but this does not quite work with the Angus Livingston at Jura family line.
Sometimes it is simpler if people send me a basic family ancestral line generation by generation to start with rather than the family tree of the entire family group.
regards,
Donald
From some genealogy information I was sent in the past I also thought that Keith has Mull Livingstone ancestry through a John Livingston b.1796 at Mull a weaver who was married to an Agnes Edmonston. This does not seem to work with Angus Livingston b. 1781 at Jura however so perhaps I was mistaken. I thought I had traced a line through the genealogy info sent to me from a John Livingston b. 1796 from Mull which would connect him to the Parker Livingston group that was married to an Agnes Edmonston, then a Gavin Livingston b. 1835 and then Andrew Mitchell Livingston of Stirling Stirlingshire and then a Gavin Livingston b.. 1896 at Glasgow. This family apparently had some connection to Keith's family or so I thought. Anyone related to this John Livingston b.1796 at Mull might very well be connected to our Parker Livingston group given the Mull Livingston connection but this does not quite work with the Angus Livingston at Jura family line.
Sometimes it is simpler if people send me a basic family ancestral line generation by generation to start with rather than the family tree of the entire family group.
regards,
Donald
-
jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Donald,
I supect we may have came across the worlds worst census taker, at least as far as Jura 1841 is concerned, or possibly, Angus and Margaret supplied inaccurate information to him.
Alternatively, it could be an entirely different Angus and Margaret, there are so many discrepancies in the ages of the family members. Possibly it's a coincidence that the family names are so similar.
I also note,this Margaret is not listed in the 1841 census as having been born in Argyll, the Margaret we are interested in is listed in Mull Genealogy, to the best of my knowledge, they only list natives of Mull.I could be wrong about this fact.
One thing I am sure of, John and Agnes were on Jura in June 1842, their son Neil being born there, and the birth registered at Colonsay. It is always possible they were enroute Islay, and Neil happened to arrive at Jura, who knows. I have no idea how ferry services operated in those days, even in the 1960's, part of the journey to Islay was by bus.
I have a paper trail from Angus & Margaret in Mull, to John & Agnes (nee Edmiston) in West Lothian, Jura & Islay, to John & Mary (nee McKellar) in Islay, to my g/father & g/mother, John & Margaret (nee McGilvray) at Islay & Greenock.
I also have quite a bit of info on other members of Angus and Margarets family, this info convinces me that Keiths side of the family, and my own, are descended from John & Agnes Livingstone through Gavin, born 1834 & John, born 1832.
I'm still looking at the Angus & Margaret in the 1841 Jura census, so far I have found nothing further of interest, nor have I found anything on Angus & Margaret from Mull, who appear to disappear after 1829. I am also still waiting on further info from www.scotsfamily, on some of the more elusive members of the family,
Regards,
John.
I supect we may have came across the worlds worst census taker, at least as far as Jura 1841 is concerned, or possibly, Angus and Margaret supplied inaccurate information to him.
Alternatively, it could be an entirely different Angus and Margaret, there are so many discrepancies in the ages of the family members. Possibly it's a coincidence that the family names are so similar.
I also note,this Margaret is not listed in the 1841 census as having been born in Argyll, the Margaret we are interested in is listed in Mull Genealogy, to the best of my knowledge, they only list natives of Mull.I could be wrong about this fact.
One thing I am sure of, John and Agnes were on Jura in June 1842, their son Neil being born there, and the birth registered at Colonsay. It is always possible they were enroute Islay, and Neil happened to arrive at Jura, who knows. I have no idea how ferry services operated in those days, even in the 1960's, part of the journey to Islay was by bus.
I have a paper trail from Angus & Margaret in Mull, to John & Agnes (nee Edmiston) in West Lothian, Jura & Islay, to John & Mary (nee McKellar) in Islay, to my g/father & g/mother, John & Margaret (nee McGilvray) at Islay & Greenock.
I also have quite a bit of info on other members of Angus and Margarets family, this info convinces me that Keiths side of the family, and my own, are descended from John & Agnes Livingstone through Gavin, born 1834 & John, born 1832.
I'm still looking at the Angus & Margaret in the 1841 Jura census, so far I have found nothing further of interest, nor have I found anything on Angus & Margaret from Mull, who appear to disappear after 1829. I am also still waiting on further info from www.scotsfamily, on some of the more elusive members of the family,
Regards,
John.
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Jim,
Actually the Cape Breton kin did not know Angus Livingston's wife's name I dont think. It is not in the original records or the research of Ann Capstick whom I believe is a descendant of Angus from Nova Scotia and foremost expert on old ANgus of Cape Breton. My impression is somewhere along the way someone in Canada or Australia has assumed that the Canadian Cape Breton Angus was married to Margaret McPhail but to be honest there is no original evidence of this. Clearly Ann Capstick who seems to have dug up every old record on Angus Livingston b. 1773 of Bras d'or, Boularderie left the name his wife as clearly unknown. I think the Margaret McPhail is from Scottish parish records connected to another Angus LIvingston. The one at Jura I guess. It would be interesting to trace where this notion first got started that that the Angus Livingston b. 1781at Jura Scotland in 1841 is the same Angus Livingston b. 1773 boatbuilder and resident of Boularderie, Bras d'or Cape Breton, Nova Scotia 1841 according to census records at the time.
The only other thing I can suggest is that there is some confusion regarding the actuall Australian connection to this family which is that Angus Livingston's son Alexander had a son the ended up in Australia around 1860 after leaving Cape Breton, Nova Scotia or something like that. A lady in Australia contacted me a couple of years ago with old australian government records said to prove her ancestor was a son of Alexander. We probably have her message somewhere in the forum archives.
Mull Genealogy has a Angus Livingston b. 1775 of Siaba or something like that in Mull married to a Margaret Hall but the family is not that of the Angus Livingston who settled received land in Boularderie, Cape Breton in 1819 and who name his property "Kilninian" after Kilninian parish, Mull. There is little doubt I should think that the ANgus b.1773 that settled in Cape Breton is from Kilninian Parish, in Northern Mull, though we have not found in the existing Kilninian Parish records unfortunately.
regards,
Donald
Actually the Cape Breton kin did not know Angus Livingston's wife's name I dont think. It is not in the original records or the research of Ann Capstick whom I believe is a descendant of Angus from Nova Scotia and foremost expert on old ANgus of Cape Breton. My impression is somewhere along the way someone in Canada or Australia has assumed that the Canadian Cape Breton Angus was married to Margaret McPhail but to be honest there is no original evidence of this. Clearly Ann Capstick who seems to have dug up every old record on Angus Livingston b. 1773 of Bras d'or, Boularderie left the name his wife as clearly unknown. I think the Margaret McPhail is from Scottish parish records connected to another Angus LIvingston. The one at Jura I guess. It would be interesting to trace where this notion first got started that that the Angus Livingston b. 1781at Jura Scotland in 1841 is the same Angus Livingston b. 1773 boatbuilder and resident of Boularderie, Bras d'or Cape Breton, Nova Scotia 1841 according to census records at the time.
The only other thing I can suggest is that there is some confusion regarding the actuall Australian connection to this family which is that Angus Livingston's son Alexander had a son the ended up in Australia around 1860 after leaving Cape Breton, Nova Scotia or something like that. A lady in Australia contacted me a couple of years ago with old australian government records said to prove her ancestor was a son of Alexander. We probably have her message somewhere in the forum archives.
Mull Genealogy has a Angus Livingston b. 1775 of Siaba or something like that in Mull married to a Margaret Hall but the family is not that of the Angus Livingston who settled received land in Boularderie, Cape Breton in 1819 and who name his property "Kilninian" after Kilninian parish, Mull. There is little doubt I should think that the ANgus b.1773 that settled in Cape Breton is from Kilninian Parish, in Northern Mull, though we have not found in the existing Kilninian Parish records unfortunately.
regards,
Donald
-
Roberta Ann
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:56 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Donald;
That Daniel Livingstone who we discussed earlier was the son of John Livingstone b 1704 and Anna MacInnis b 1708. Daniel died in Grenville County, Ontario; 1793-94.
Roberta
That Daniel Livingstone who we discussed earlier was the son of John Livingstone b 1704 and Anna MacInnis b 1708. Daniel died in Grenville County, Ontario; 1793-94.
Roberta
-
Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Hi Roberta,
I am not sure that there is a precise date for old Daniel's birth, but it would have to have been around the 1730's for him to have participated as a young man in Fraser's highland regiment that was at Quebec in 1759. Some of the dates I have seen appear to guesstimates. I wonder how man Livingstons were with the British Army in North America in the 1750's? There was definitely an entry for a Daniel Livingston in the parish records that seemed to fit old Daniel and could be him. That is where the information on those parents came from.I am just not 100% certain but definitely could be him and his parents. His Upper Canada land petition from the 1780's does not state in any detail his scottish origins. Before the American Revolution I think he received land in the then Province of New York after his military service with the British. After the Revolutionary War, Daniel Livingston and several of his sons I noticed on a visit to the Ontario Archives, petitioned the Crown in Upper Canada for a grant of land.
Another Livingston shortly thereafter, James Livingston also from New York State, settled not far from Daniel and his sons in that part of Ontario and may be a nephew. His descendant requested assistance a few years ago from the society and contacted me by e-mail. We have located a large number of documents pertaining to James Livingston. We are of two theories, one being that James is a descendant of a James Livingston of Palentine German origin whose changed his name to Livingston after arriving in the colony of New York in the early 1700's. The other possibility is that the James Livingston that settled in Upper Canada in the 1780's or 1790's early on from New York State is a nephew of the Daniel Livingston you mentioned.
regards,
Donald
I am not sure that there is a precise date for old Daniel's birth, but it would have to have been around the 1730's for him to have participated as a young man in Fraser's highland regiment that was at Quebec in 1759. Some of the dates I have seen appear to guesstimates. I wonder how man Livingstons were with the British Army in North America in the 1750's? There was definitely an entry for a Daniel Livingston in the parish records that seemed to fit old Daniel and could be him. That is where the information on those parents came from.I am just not 100% certain but definitely could be him and his parents. His Upper Canada land petition from the 1780's does not state in any detail his scottish origins. Before the American Revolution I think he received land in the then Province of New York after his military service with the British. After the Revolutionary War, Daniel Livingston and several of his sons I noticed on a visit to the Ontario Archives, petitioned the Crown in Upper Canada for a grant of land.
Another Livingston shortly thereafter, James Livingston also from New York State, settled not far from Daniel and his sons in that part of Ontario and may be a nephew. His descendant requested assistance a few years ago from the society and contacted me by e-mail. We have located a large number of documents pertaining to James Livingston. We are of two theories, one being that James is a descendant of a James Livingston of Palentine German origin whose changed his name to Livingston after arriving in the colony of New York in the early 1700's. The other possibility is that the James Livingston that settled in Upper Canada in the 1780's or 1790's early on from New York State is a nephew of the Daniel Livingston you mentioned.
regards,
Donald