North Carolina Livingstons

[Alan Livingston]

Donald,

it sounds like you are right on the money in that the Duncan in Richmond County (the eastern portion is now Scotland County since 1899) is my great, great, great grandfather. i saw on a North Carolina land grant database that Duncan received land grants in 1801, 1825, and 1827, all of which describe the location as "east of Crooked Creek". Then his son, Hugh, received a land grant in 1835, also "east of Crooked Creek". that is a very small creek, whose location is very near where i have always heard that Hugh was originally buried. his son, Peter Livingston, bought land roughly 5 miles away, and established the "new" family cemetery. he had his father, Hugh, exumed and moved there. in my mind, this very specific location seems definitive in making Duncan the father of Hugh.

my lineage you asked for is:

3 great grandfather: Duncan Livingston born ? died ?

2 great grandfather: Hugh Livingston born 1805, died 1873 (per his headsstone)

great grandfather: Peter Hanna Livingston born 5/4/1855, died 11/21/1935 (per headstone)

grandfather: Major F Livingston born 12/28/1884, died Aug ?, 1959 (per headstone)

father: Paul Hanna Livingston born 10/26/1916, died 3/8/1981 (per headstone)

me: Alan S Livingston, born 4/5/1953 (no headstone as of yet)

yes, i do now appreciate our family cemetery. it has been well kept up, with my generation of cousins all contributing to maintenance. each generation of my ancestors occupies a new row, with my direct ancestors all neatly lined up in a single column. we still own about 200 acres adjoining the cemetery, with no intentions of it ever leaving the family.

i would love to know more about Duncan (of Richmond County). surely he came from Scotland. virtually all of the Scottish families here in Scotland County are from Argyll. one of my favorite clients, a McDougald, keeps reminding me that we Livingstons are a sept of his clan. we have even established a "sister city" relationship with Oban, swapping a dozen or so visiting high school students every year. i feel certain Duncan was from the region, and would love to know more.

so, how do i go about joining the DNA project? i read some online, but i wasn't clear who to contact.

thanks very much for the kind reply,

Alan

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,

I have left a message with Andrew Lancaster who has been the major person involved with DNA project for a number of years now as well as Kyle Maclea our former North American Clan Commissioner. I asked one of them to contact you about the Clan's dna project. The actual testing is done through familytreedna. You can check out their website. I would advise their 67 marker test as it I have found it helps to better identify more precisely those Livingstons most closely connected to your family group and those who share a more distant Maclea Livingston ancestor than the 25 or 37 marker tests. The more markers tested the better. As Duncan David Livingston is descended from Hugh and Mary's youngest son Charles and you are descended from their son Peter then you definitely should theoretically share a close match in terms of dna results unless either Charles or his brother Peter were adopted into this Livingston family which probably is not the case. Y chromosome dna testing of a Livingston that the Clan Society is doing through the familytreedna people requires dna from a male Livingston descendant which you are. In my case as I am not a Livingston, actually descended from a daughter of one, I fortunately found a 3rd cousin who was a related Livingston who kindly offered to take the test.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,

I had to make some changes. It has been stated that your ancestor Duncan Livingston may have been married twice. The first wife was Ann McLean and the second is said to have been Mary McInnis. I have no proof that the other Duncan Livingston of Anson County was married to a Mary McInnis. I only noticed that a Mary Livington died at the age 0f 78 a year after Duncan of Anson County in Lillesville, Anson County in 1861, but no indication that was his wife. And Duncan Livingston of Anson County has a will from 1860 which I was told stated that his wife was actually named " Martha" so it seems unlikely that his wife's name was Mary. Anyways we know your great-great-great grandfather was Duncan Livingston of Richmond County, your great-great grandfather Hugh Livingston and your great-grandfather was Hugh's son Peter of the Richmond County family so all is well with the world. And Duncan David Livingston's ancestor was Charles Hannah Livingston born 1865, brother of Pete and son of Hugh and Mary Livingston of Williamson Township, RIchmond County, North Carolina.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,
Hugh Livingston and family lived in the Laurel Hill vicinity in Williamson Township, Richmond County, NC
Your great-grandfather

Peter Hanna Livingston b. May 4, 1855 Richmond County, North Carolina Parents: Hugh Livingston and Mary Gibson
married 1878 Annie Gibson

Death: Nov. 21, 1935 Laurel Hill

Charles Hannah Livingston b. June 7, 1865 Gibson,Richmond County North Carolina
Parents: Hugh Livingston and Mary Gibson
married Martha Jane Parks
Marriage: June 27, 1907 Robeson, North Carolina
Died December 28, 1937 Houston, ALabama or December 14, 1937 Malone, Jackson Florida ?

1930 Census Charles livingston Grangburg and Crosby, Houston, Alabama

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,

Kyle McLea contacted me and suggested you go to our Clan's dna project site the Livingstone Maclea Group Project with the familytreedna company that the Clan is working with as you then are able to get the benefit of a 20 dollar discount from the regular rate. The rates listed there at that site are the discounted rates that Kyle and familytreedna mentioned to me. Here is the link:

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-joi ... Livingston

I would suggest going either with the 37 marker test or the 67 marker test.

regards,

Donald

[Alan Livingston]

Donald,

Great. I will get right on the dna participation.

Two questions: tell me anything you know about the Duncan Daniel Livingston b 1774. What is source of his birth year? Any way to learn more of where he came from? Any trace of the names of his children? This interests me about the middle name because there was a Daniel Livingston circa 1850 who had a rather large farm near Wagram, a small town in Scotland County on the Lumber River about 15 miles from our land. I remember seeing this Daniel listed on a slave census (1850 I think) as having around twenty some slaves. My ancestor was listed as having 3 slaves, one young adult female, one elderly female, and one child. I have never established a connection with this Daniel, but now this middle name of Duncan Daniel seems a clue that perhaps Daniel could have been a son of Duncan and a brother of Hugh.

question 2: who is Duncan David, son of Charles? You mention him, but why? Perhaps just because of the given name Duncan appearing in the family tree at a later date?

Thank you very much for your interest and your help. This is fascinating.

Alan

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,

It has been while since we were researching the family tree of the descendant of Charles Hannah Livingston 1865-1937 so I am trying to find the family tree of his descendant Duncan David Livingston. I forget the details but he is the great-grandson I think it was of Hugh's youngest child, Charles Hannah Livingston, so Duncan David would be a second or third cousin of yours I would guess. Duncan David Livingston was a participant in the dna project a few years ago, so either he or someone in his family probably has an interest in the family history like yourself.

I think some of the info I saw several years now was extracted from local histories not sure at the moment from where that mentioned the Duncan D. Livingston or Duncan Daniel Livingston born 1774 as you say. Not a lot on him I recall and I am not certain it was correct. Some confusion i think out there regarding another Duncan Livingston from Lillesville, Anson County but what i do recall is that it was said that the Duncan Livingston born abt. 1774 was married to Annie McLean. Mary McInnis was also mentioned as perhaps a second wife. Anyways I have to reread what we have on the forum on your ancestor Duncan Livingston. I am going to look around and see if I have any thing on file on the Richmond County Livingston. In any event there is a little bit in past forum exchanges perhaps and I will see what I can find from other sources. I think I noticed a Livingstone cemetery in Scotland County. Is that the cemetery where Peter Hanna Livingston was buried in 1935 ?

This is something important to consider. The info that I did see in 2009 I think states that Duncan Daniel Livingston was born in 1774 in Scotland and died in 1860. THe Census info I think however suggests he was born a little before that and died a little earlier than that. Note that the last census that Duncan appears in is actually the 1830 U.S. census where he is listed as residing in Richmond County and being of an age somewhere between 60 and 69. And he is not recorded in the subsequent 1840, 1850 or 1860 census records in Richmond County but his son Hugh is. I presume that Hugh took over his late father's property. The only wlll I know of is the one from 1860 but again that is for Duncan Livingston who died in 1860 in Anson County and that clearly shows the names of his children and that he is not the Duncan Livingston of Richmond County. So I am pretty certain that your Duncan Livingston died before 1860 and where that error originated.

I will see if I find out what the source material was for that info on Duncan Daniel Livingston. I do recall we had the names of some of the sons of Duncan Daniel Livingston besides Hugh. I will see if I can find them again and get back to you on that.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,

There were unfortunately three Duncan Livingstons born before 1800 that resided in the first part of the 1800s in Richmond, ANson and Montgomery Counties and only the Richmond County one was connected to your family unfortunately my suspicion is that over the years information extracted from original record of the three of them have somehow accidently been mixed up and perhaps connected all to your ancestor Duncan Livingston. I have been in contact with an ancestor of the Montgomery County Livingstons and they are not related to your cousin Duncan or you. I am 100 per cent certain of that and I dont believe the Anson County family was either but these old Duncans born in the 18th century I think have been mixed up. MOre to follow in this postings which I show how that confusion may have occured. Off to a Halloween dinner.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,
I will have more time beginning next week to take another look at where some of info on Duncan Daniel Livingston possibly originated and if there is a problem with it. The main thing I have found so far is that I think the potential was always there for people to mix up the info regarding the three Duncan Livingston s or more that in the 19the century resided in Richmond, ANson and Montgomery County and that may have happened. That is one thing I looking into. If this happened it happened some years ago now. More on that possibility next week.

The good news I have for you is thatI found "original documented" evidence that the information that Hugh Livingston died in 1873 is incorrect. He actually died in February of 1872. How do I know that for certain. Heres how. Your ancestor Hugh Livingston died and left no will but a month after his death in March of 1872 a probate process was apparently set into place with his son Duncan as administrator. Then seems to have set in motion a long legal process going into 1873 and 1874 apparently regarding Duncan vs. the rest of the family including Hugh's widow his surviving children including Charles Livingston and your ancestor Peter Livingston are mentioned. There are a mountain of legal papers that went through while watching halloween movies into the early morning. I like to multitask and have not been sleeping well lately. Anyways I had almost given up hope of finding anything beyond the fact these records pertaining to Hugh Livingston deceased began in the Spring of 1872 and not 1873 as later family info seems to have suggested when on a list on one page in these documents found the brief statement that Hugh Livingston died on February of 1872. No complete date just that he died in February of 1872. I then went to sleep.

regards,

Donald

[Alan Livingston]

that sounds like another good example of how facts can get jumbled up. i am sure the legal papers are correct about Hugh's death in 1872, but his headstone says 1873. i always heard he was exhumed and moved to his present resting place, so i suspect he got a new headstone at that time, and they got the year wrong.