Dr. David Livingstone's grandparents

[Jane M Livingstone]

Family lore says we are related by marriage to Dr Livingstone, so the DNA would show that we are not related directly. I should have realised that the Lettermore John Livingstone could not have been related since he was related to Dr L. I did want to point out though that the Reudle Livingstones were my family and not worth pursuing in relation to Dr L.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jane,

I very much appreciate the fact that you contacted us as I am among other things researching the origins of those highland Livingstons that lived at Mull . Your brothers test results are a perplexing piece in the puzzle that is the Kilninian and Kilmore highland Livingstons. The same can be said about Dr. Livingston's kin's results. Others on the other hand seem to share certain characteristic of a defined highland maclea (Livingstone) group with a possible shared origin. Yes as far as we can tell from comparing your brother's results you and your Livingston family are not a blood relation of Dr. Livingston.

Andrew Lancaster and Kyle Maclea have put alot of effort into the Maclea Livingstone DNA Project over the last couple of years and among some of the Livingstons some clearly defined highland livingston groups are emerging while others are a bit more mysterious to us as to their origins.
Though I am only the historian, natural curiosity and sense to solve an intruiging mystery has encouraged me to in conjunction with the DNA project results study just how many Maclea Livingstones living within Kilninian and Kilmore Parish in Mull were connected to one another in a family sense distant or otherwise. Since a significant number of Livingstons from this Kilninian and Kilmore Parish settled in Nova Scotia. Canada for example in the early 1800's I am also interested in any test results for these Livingstons. Originally my focus was Mull and neighbouring Morvern where my Livingston family originated but recently I realized that a study of significant number of various Livingston families who in the 1700's and 1800's resided in the small parish of Kilninian and Kilmore might also prove very useful to the Society so I thought I would like to focus on those within that relatively small parish within in Mull. My sense so far is that the results are proving to be some of what I expected but with a few surprises for those who origins were Kilninian and Kilmore Parish. I have a theory which I am working on which might explain some of the results but it too early to be certain and it would any event require the assistance of some of the other highland clans that lived amongst the Maclea Livingstones. For now all we can do is wait as more results come in from Kilninian and Kilmore LIvingstons tested and see where that takes us.

So it is greatly appreciated that you and your brother have taken an active interest in trying to learn the origin of your Kilninian and Kilmore Livingston family through historical research and through the DNA testing process. I think the two can both be of great help in learing about one's highland Livingston origins ultimately. Somewhere further down the road hopefully we will now more and be able to make sense of all this. We hope to contact more Kilninian and Kilmore Livingstons in the future which may ultimately help to increase our knowledge of this interesting group of highland Livingstons.

I could not find your grandfather's birth record but the census records seem to indicate he was born at Kilninian near Reudle in the late 1880's prior the family living in Tobermory sometime prior to the 1891 Census. I would think then that your grandfather's family moved to Tobermory sometime between 1888 and 1891 but I could be wrong. In the 1881 Census they were still at Reudle or Kilninian werent they?

regards,

Donald

[Jane M Livingstone]

I like the idea of piecing together bits of a puzzle, but it is frustrating at times. I have a lot of information but I seem to go round in circles with it.

My grandfather, Donald, was the youngest child. He was born in Tobermory in 1887. Three of his siblings were also born in Tobermory, so they must have moved there before Alex was born in 1879. They moved to Glasgow when Grandpa was about 6.

Apparently, Grandpa used to talk about the cemetery at Morvern as being the burial place of Livingstones (as though those Livingstones were related????), but a family tree I was given by my aunt is titled The Livingstones from Appin. Another place mentioned in documents I have is Achnacree. When our forefather arrived in Mull in the late 1700s, they had been on Coll, but perhaps that was just to get married (he married into the McLeans of Coll, apparently).

My brother's DNA results are intriguing. I would have thought there would be obvious connections. We are definitely Highland Livingstones - my grandfather's family were all gaelic speakers - and our forefather was supposedly at Culloden.

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Jane,

Do not be discouraged regarding the progress of your research. There are more than a few Livingstones who have contacted us in the past who have not got as far as you with locating your highland Livingstone ancestor. Most of us think you have done quite well with your research actually. We all run into dead ends and difficulties at one time or another in family research. One major obstacle we all face is that the parish records in Argyllshire do not go as far back as we would like. In the case of my own Morvern Livingston family research the surviving Morvern Parish records do not commence until the early 1800's. At least in your case you have been able to access the Kilninian and Kilmore Parish records that cover some births and marriages prior to 1800.

Beyond our Maclea Livingstone Genealogy DNA project there are University researchers also interested in the genetic origins of Scottish families not to mention other clans that are also involved in similar research to what we are doing. I thnk that in the future the mysteries of your Kilninian and Kilmore Parish Livingston origins and that of Dr. Livingston's can be explained. Regarding Dr. Livingston's kin I am wondering if an apparent similarities to some members of Clan MacDougall has any important significance given that Clan MacDougall have such a ancient connection in our Western Argyllshire neighbourhood with our own ancient highland Clan Maclea.

While there are some highland Livingstones that did reside in the Mull and neighbouring Morvern area such as my Livingston family who seem to be either closely or distantly related your Livingstons and that of Dr. Livingston's kin present an interesting challenge to the pattern that I thought was emerging in this area. While I am interested that a defined highland Livingston group has emerged among several families I am also am also intruighed by the fact that both your family and that of Dr. Livingstons who also have connections to this Mull/Morvern area have results which do not match with a number of others in the area. While I more at home with history, I can now see that Science does have an important role here is solving this mystery and I am hoping that in time the mystery regarding your Livingstons and that of Dr. Livingston can be solved.

Regarding the Achnacree Macleas it is said that some of the Achnacree Macleas later known as Livingstones settled in Morvern by the year 1600. This was part of a story apparently told in the 1800's by two elderly neices and other kin of famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern who rescued the banner of the Appin Regiment from Culloden Battlefield in 1746. One can appreciate why some of these Achnacree highland Macleas would consider settling in McLean dominated Morvern around 1600 given that a group of Campbells had nearly wiped them out a generation or so earlier. One suspects that Campbells in the area may well have forced some Achnacree Livingstons off their land around this time or sometime before compelling them seek out settlement in Morvern Parish then still dominated by Clan McLean. Regarding these Maclea Livingstones that lived in Morvern Parish including Donald Livingstone Savary Livngstone's kin I am also interested in seeing what Andrew and Kyle in their DNA Project discover in the future regarding the Morvern Livingstone origins.

regards,

Donald

[Jane M Livingstone]

I'll copy out the entire passage from an old letter that my grandfather's brother wrote from South Africa to his younger brother that explains where we are from. I have no proof of this, just what is written, but I thought you might be interested. I hope no one is offended either by the tone, grammar or accuracy but I am copying it exactly. It mentions information from the Duke of Argyll and in an earlier letter he says that he is going to write to the Duke to ask him about the family.

David Livingstone was descended from a son of the baron of Bachuil who was severely wounded at Culloden but managed to escape and as MacAulay the minister of S. Uist who had attempted to capture the Prince had been placed in Lismore by the Duke of Argyll to close his mouth; it was a Campbell that threatened to cut him in two when he was hot on the Prince's track; young MacDhunleibhe did not deem Lismore too safe and went to Morvern and then to Mull, and finally to Ulva. His son married Catherine micDhunleibhe or Livingstone who father was farming at Bailemor in Kerrara, where Alexander II died and is buried. Catherine's father was of the Achnacree family and was at Culloden also. And my information from the Duke of Argyll is that we are descended from Catherine's uncle who settled in Mull after Culloden and whose son, our great, great grandfather married a sister of the young Laird of Coll who befriended Johnson and Boswell and gave them passage from Skye to Coll and later introduced them to Sir Allan MacLean at Inchkenneth.

It is interesting the he spells the gaelic name differently but I don't think they were too bothered about the spelling of names. It is also interesting that although gaelic was an illegal language, the family were all gaelic speakers, so much so that my grandfather didn't speak English when he started school in Glasgow when they moved there when he was six. Perhaps the remoteness of certain areas of the highlands and islands preserved the language.

I really don't think the information about the Laird of Coll is correct. The dates don't add up and there is no mention of this in the MacLean history, apparently. Sir Allan did have some natural children, however, so perhaps the sister was one of these children and hence not recorded.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jane,

This is very interesting letter. Do you have a rough idea around what year this was written? It was generally believed in the late 19th century in Western Argyllshire that Dr. Livingstone was descended from the Bachuil LIvingstones of Lismore and Argyll historian Alexander Carmichael well acquainted with the Bachuil Livingstones and the history of the families in the area certainly understood this to be the case. And this has been the widely held view by the Clan. DNA testing so far has suggested however that Dr. Livingstone's family were not blood relatives of the Bachuil Livingstones. Regardless of whether every detail is accurate I find it always exciting to discover someone has located an old family letter or manuscript containing an old highland Livingston family history account. We very much appreciate you sharing it with us.

Dr. Livingstone's own brief account of his great-grandfather was that he died at Culloden fighting for the Jacobite cause in 1745 and tells us little else beyond that. According to the Doctor his grandfather (Neil Livingstone) was the family story teller and was well acquainted with the family history for several generations so one would expect that if there was a relatively recent ancestral connection with the Bachuil Livingstones, Dr. Livingstone would have been told about it by his grandfather.

The folks from Ballachulish, Argyllshire apparently had a alternative tradition that Dr. Livingstone's great grandfather killed at Culloden was a John Livingston from the Ballachulish area whose family had lived in that part of Argyllshire for several generations. What I find interesting about this is that there was a John Livingston of Ballachulish Estate who served in the Jacobite Appin Regiment according to Baron Alastair Livingstone's book "No Quarter Given". Also Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John b.1777 was the eldest son of his family and the Doctor's brother John Livingston b.1811 was the eldest son in the next generation. One senses that the family member whom died at Culloden may well have been named John Livingstone or more accurately John Maconlea circa 1745. This is only a theory of mine one of many that cant be proven. Dr. Livingston oddly enough gives no indication that his grandfather and previous Livingstone ancestors lived anywhere else other that Isle of Ulva in Argyllshire prior to his grandfather and family settlling in Blantyre, Lanarkshire in the 1790's.

regards,

Donald

[Jane M Livingstone]

The letters date from about 1936 to about 1950, but this particular letter has lost its date. Some of the letters are typed and some handwritten . The handwritten ones are very difficult to read. The problem, I found, with the information I have from my great uncle Duncan is that he uses a lot of Carmichael's work which has since been found to be incorrect. In fact, Duncan even wrote an article on Dr Livingstone for a commemoration in South Africa (the three eldest of my father's uncles moved there after the Boer War) but it was basically Carmichael's work so I ignore that information now.

What I found interesting with this particular letter in relation to our family is the reference to the Duke of Argyll. Did he have a lot of information about the people on his estates, for example? Or is this the Duke who was an historian so it was just his hobby? I also don't know where Argyll's estates were. Reudle is just up the road from Torloisk and I believe that Reudle was part of the Torloisk estates, so therefore McLeans. Why would Argyll know about our family unless they lived on his estates? I thought there might be a clue there somewhere.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jane,

Argyll historian Alexander Carmichael to his credit contributed greatly to our Clan's understanding of Highland Clan Livingstone and provided some groundbreaking research, but some of his information may not have been entirely correct. I understand that the 10th Duke of Argyll Niall Campbell (1872-1949) was a historian and greatly respected the Bachuil Livingstones of his time and was interested in the history of the highland Maclea Livingstones. Perhaps that is the Duke of Argyll your relative was referring to.

regards,

Donald

[Jane M Livingstone]

I am surmising that the Argyll Duncan is referring to is the historian because the dates would match and he was interested enough to give out information. I hadn't realised that Morvern was McLean territory. Do you know where the Duke of Argyll's estates were? I am wondering if he knew where my family came from just because he researched the main families in the area or if it was because they came from Argyll estates. And where is his research now?

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jane,

Macleans at one time held a significant portion of Morvern. At the time the Achnacree Macleas arrived at Morvern around the year 1600 (if old Donald Livingstone's elderly neices and their kin were correct) they would have found Morvern still largely under the control of the Macleans of Duart I would imagine. Later in the 17th century that all changed when the Campbells managed to take possession of most of Morvern. According to Phillip Gaskell author of Morvern Transformed, "Morvern had been dominated by the Macleans of Duart and their kinsman for the whole of the sixteenth century and for most of the seventh century, but in the 1670's Argyll brought a century of litigation and fighting to a head with an armed invasion of Maclean territory, whereby he fought his way into control of all the Duart estates which included two thirds of Morvern..."

Gaskell's book includes land ownership maps including one from the 1750 period which indicates that the Duke of Argyll at that time, (the Third DUke of Argyll I think?) owned a large proportion of Morvern Parish with Macleans by this point in time only owning a very small portion. A Cameron of Glendessary interestingly is at this time is also in possession of a large piece of property in the Parish but that changes ownership before 1800. By 1850 there is only one small estate at Killundine owned by a Maclean and that is gone before year 1900.



regards,

Donald