McLay family

[dougmayes]

Hello from Australia,

I hope you know somebody on Bute or nearby & help me with my quest!
I have emailed John McLay at mclayglass -at- btconnect.com but maybe you can help by forwarding on this to maybe a local family history group or society.
My Great Grandmother was Isabella McLay daughter of John McLay born abt 1833 Aidrie Lanakshire New Monkland & Mary Love born abt 1828
Isabella married Dugald Rankine (father Daniel Rankine)b: 6 July 1846 in New Monkland, m: 21 June 1871 & d: 9 December 1925 in Scotland.
I note that there is many spellings for McLay/ McLoy/Maclae/McClay.
Some of my research has the family in Rothesay Bute in 1881.
Do you have any ties to this family?
I have pasted in below info passed on to me which may nail down the families.
I have also attached our Work in Progress "Mayes Family Tree."
I can send you more info on the Rankins if you wish?

Thanks Cheers Doug Mayes



Mary Love Birth 16 MAR 1828 in Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Death
Marriage
Marriage Information
Date
Jun 1845
Location
New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland to John McLay

Residence Residence Information
Date 1851
Location Carnock, Fife, Scotland
Residence Residence Information
Date 1861
Location New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Residence
Residence Information
Date 1881
Location Rothesay, Bute, Scotland

1861 Scotland Census about John Mclay
Name: John Mclay
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Where born: Stirligh, Polmont
Registration Number: 651/1
Registration district: Airdrie
Civil Parish: New Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 128 Graham St
Occupation: Coal Mine Coachaster
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1861_117
Household Members: Name Age
John Mclay 35
Mary Mclay 33
Robt Mclay 16
John Mclay 13
Mary Mclay 9
Isabela Mclay 7
Janet L Mclay 4
Christine Gibson 15


1891 Scotland Census about John McLay
Name: John McLay
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary McLay
Gender: Male
Registration Number: 558
Registration district: Rothesay
Civil Parish: Rothesay
Town: Rothesay
County: Bute
Address: 32 Mount Stuart Road
Occupation: Retired Coalmaster
ED: 20
Household schedule number: 140
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_175
Household Members: Name Age
John McLay 65
Mary McLay 63
Margaret McLay 29
Mary Rankine 13

1871 Scotland Census about John Mclay
Name: John Mclay
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Where born: Redding, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 651/2
Registration district: New Monkland Landward
Civil Parish: New Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Grahamshill Cottage
Occupation: Contractor Visitor Employing (60 Men 20 Boys & 7 Women)
ED: 12
Household schedule number: 10
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1871_147
Household Members: Name Age
John Mclay 45
Mary Mclay 43
Isabella Mclay 19
Janet L Mclay 14
Margaret Mclay 9
Robert Mclay 4

1881 Scotland Census about John McLay
Name: John McLay
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Love
Gender: Male
Where born: Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 558
Registration district: Rothesay
Civil Parish: Rothesay
County: Bute
Address: Wellpark House
Occupation: Coalmaster
ED: 23
Household schedule number: 8
Line: 19
Roll: cssct1881_160
Household Members: Name Age
John McLay 55
Mary Love 53
Maggie McLay 19
Robert McLay 14
Mary Love Rankine 3

1861 Scotland Census about John Mclay
Name: John Mclay
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Where born: Stirligh, Polmont
Registration Number: 651/1
Registration district: Airdrie
Civil Parish: New Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 128 Graham St
Occupation: Coal Mine Coachaster
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1861_117
Household Members: Name Age
John Mclay 35
Mary Mclay 33
Robt Mclay 16
John Mclay 13
Mary Mclay 9
Isabela Mclay 7
Janet L Mclay 4
Christine Gibson 15

1891 Scotland Census about John McLay
Name: John McLay
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary McLay
Gender: Male
Registration Number: 558
Registration district: Rothesay
Civil Parish: Rothesay
Town: Rothesay
County: Bute
Address: 32 Mount Stuart Road
Occupation: Retired Coalmaster
ED: 20
Household schedule number: 140
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_175
Household Members: Name Age
John McLay 65
Mary McLay 63
Margaret McLay 29
Mary Rankine 13

1891 Scotland Census about John McLay
Name: John McLay
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary McLay
Gender: Male
Registration Number: 558
Registration district: Rothesay
Civil Parish: Rothesay
Town: Rothesay
County: Bute
Address: 32 Mount Stuart Road
Occupation: Retired Coalmaster
ED: 20
Household schedule number: 140
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_175
Household Members: Name Age
John McLay 65
Mary McLay 63
Margaret McLay 29
Mary Rankine 13

1891 Scotland Census about Mary Love
Name: Mary Love
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John Love
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 652/2
Registration district: Coatbridge
Civil Parish: Old Monkland
Town: Coatbridge
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 175 Bucham St
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 113
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1891_318
Household Members: Name Age
John Love 65
Mary Love 65
John Love 30
Arthur Love 28
Annie Love 3


1861 Scotland Census about Mary Love
Name: Mary Love
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John Love
Gender: Female
Where born: Argyleshire
Registration Number: 559/2
Registration district: Abbey Landward
Civil Parish: Abbey Landward
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Hislop Land
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 10
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1861_74
Household Members: Name Age
John Love 29
Mary Love 30
Robert Love 5
Mary Love 2
John Love 11 MO



1861 Scotland Census about Mary Love
Name: Mary Love
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John Love
Gender: Female
Where born: Irvine, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 589
Registration district: Dreghorn
Civil Parish: Dreghorn
County: Ayrshire
Address: Springside Hamlet
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1861_84
Household Members: Name Age
John Love 33
Mary Love 30
Helen Love 6
Catherine Love 3
John Love 1



1861 Scotland Census about Mary Love
Name: Mary Love
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John Love
Gender: Female
Where born: Bailleston, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 622/2
Registration district: Springburn
Civil Parish: Springburn
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 154 Charles St
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 16
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1861_91
Household Members: Name Age
John Love 28
Mary Love 30
Jane Love 4
Agnes Mazzie 3

Hi Doug

I copied your email from the Airdire website you left a link to. I’ve just had a look at the vital records available online via http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and then did a quick look on Ancestry.com for a census check and a look on familysearch.org for the results of a parent search to be sure we had the right folks. It’s quite straightforward to locate the marriage of your Isabella McClay and Dugald Rankine and also the death of Isabella in 1880. These records can be viewed online and downloaded into your computer without needing to order an extract from General Register House Scotland. The system is quite neat and affordable compared to that of some other countries. Actually Scotlandspeople fees are due to increase in the new year at 1 April so if you were inclined to obtain copies of these records you should act before then. From these two vital records you are able to confirm the names of Isabella’s parents and the occupation of her father and whether the parents were alive or deceased at the time of Isabella’s marriage to Dugald and also at the time of her death. Using a combination of this data is how to prove you are linking the correct people together as family. In your case….you know Isabellas father was John McClay and you think her mother was Mary Love. Both Isabella’s marriage and death confirm these names as correct. They also indicate that her parents were both still alive at the time of her death. A further search for the death of a Mary McClay mn Love turns up just one lady who died on Bute in 1913. This record shows she was the widow of John McClay a coalmaster. Ironstone and Coal Conractor is the occupation of Isabella’s father on her marriage and Coalmaster is his occupation on her death certificate. This looks pretty likely to be the right lady to be Isabellas mother. The only thing I then did to wrap it all up was to look on the IGI to see if John McClay and Mary Love had children that included an Isabella born about 1853 (birth year derived from her stated age at marriage). Because statutory recordkeeping began in Scotland in 1855 it’s not always easy to find pre 1855 records. Well this looks like it might be the case with this family. The IGI shows several children to this couple but none born before 1855. They do however have a Janet Love McClay born in 1857. So next I had a look for John McClay with a wife named Mary and a daughter named Isabella and a daughter named Janet on the 1861 census. There is one who nicely fits the bill right there in New Monkland:

Name: John Mclay
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Registration Number: 651/1
Registration district: Airdrie
Civil Parish: New Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 128 Graham St

Household consists of:
John Mclay age 35
Mary Mclay age 33
Robt Mclay age 16
John Mclay age 13
Mary Mclay age 9
Isabela Mclay age 7
Janet L Mclay age 4
Christine Gibson age15

Christine is a domestic servant. All the other children are sons and daughters. Mary is his wife. According to the 1861 census Isabella was born in Torryburn, Fife, Scotland. The presence of a sister named Janet L (for Love?) convinces me this is your Isabella with her parents and siblings in 1861 and the death of Mary McClay in 1913 on Bute is that of Isabella’s mother.

Best wishes
Jean





Hi Doug

Happy New Year to you as well.

‘Fraid I’ve no connection to the McLay’s or anyone else so far from Bute. I did have a little look around tonight for further records in your McLay line and you’re quite lucky with that one. Not only can you get back to John McLay and Mary Love but John’s death cert in 1910 gives his parents names as Robert McClay and Mary Bennie and I’ve just now tracked down their deaths which occurred after 1855 in Scotland which means….more parent names!!!!!! Mary McClay mn Bennie died in 1880. Her father was John Bennie and her mother was Janet Ramsay. Robert on the other hand outlived her by a year. His parents were John McClay and Mary Baird. Robert and Mary Bennie had a huge family so you can probably spend the rest of your life just on this line alone!!!!! They were married in 1823 Muiravonside. I’m pasting in 3 of the census indexes of this family below. Not sure what to make of the place of birth of Robert given as England. I haven’t looked any further for earlier generations.

Best wishes
Jean





Here they are in 1861:

Name: Robert Mclay
Age: 61
Estimated birth year: abt 1800
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 651/1
Registration district: Airdrie
Civil Parish: New Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 5 Clark St
Occupation: Ironstone Contractor
ED: 16
Household schedule number: 4

Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1861_117

Household Members:
Name Age

Robert Mclay 61
Mary Mclay 51
Alexander Mclay 22
Mary Mclay 30
Thomas Mclay 17
David Mclay 15



Here they are in 1851:

Name: Robert Mclay
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Mclay
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Parish Number: 414
Civil Parish: Carnock
Town: Forth Iron Works
County: Fife
Address: 8 Store Row
Occupation: Contractor Of Ironstone Mines

ED: 2

Household schedule number: 8
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1851_85

Household Members:
Name Age

Robert Mclay 52
Mary Mclay 48
Robert Mclay 23
Mary Mclay 21
William Mclay 9
James Mclay 7
Margaret Mclay 15
Alexander Mclay 13
George Mclay 11
Thomas Mclay 8
David Mclay 6


And here they are in 1841:
Name: Robert Mclay
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil Parish: Airdrie
County: Lanarkshire
Address: London Street
Occupation: Iron M
Parish Number: 651
Household Members:

Name Age

Robert Mclay 42
Mary Mclay 37
Janet Mclay 15
John Mclay 15 (I’m guessing this fellow is your John who married Mary Love)
Robert Mclay 13
Mary Mclay 11
William Mclay 9
James Mclay 7
Margaret Mclay 5
Alexander Mclay 3
George Mclay 1

[Kyle MacLea]

Hi Doug,

Welcome to the Forum! We hope you're able to get some good information and some important leads for your new year's family research! As another with the old gaelic name, I am always interested to hear about other M'Lea or M'Lay type names!

I've alerted a few others about this thread and hope some knowledgeable folks will drop by and lend their expertise! In the mean time, though, welcome! Even if you don't find the answers you seek right away, come back from time and time and check in--these posts are indexed on the search engines, and people often find their way here from search results--and may have something to add about your line at a future date!

All best,
Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Doug,
A Second Thought on your great-great grandfather's origins.
I noticed that the 1861 Scottish Census entry for a John Mclay b. 1826 coal worker and father of Isabella residing at Airdrie, Monkland, Stirlingshire actually states that he was born at Polmont, Stirlingshire rather than Muiravonside, Stirlingshire where a John Maclay son of Robert Maclay and Mary Bennie was born in 1825, but upon further investigation I did find that Robert Maclay and Margaret Bennie did have a Polmont connection or at least they had a son James born there in 1834 so I am now leaning toward the idea that the 1861 Census entry stating that your ancestor John Mclay was born at Palmont was wrong. I think he perhaps he lived as a child perhaps briefly at Polmont in the 1830's with parents Robert Maclay and Margaret Bennie but probably according to the Scottish parish records was born at Muiravonside, Stirlingshire in 1825. SO I would have to conclude that Jean is right on regarding John's parents likely being Robert Maclay and Mary Bennie and the likely the error lyes with the 1861 Census. Polmont is located near Falkirk Scotland. I am not sure I can make a connection with your Mclays and those Balfron and Killearn Parish though many of the Stirlingshire Mclays likely are related somehow. Although Robert Maclay may have been born and lived in England according to the census info that your researcher found, it is still likely that his family origins were with a Stirlingshire Mclay or Maclay family and that is why he returned to this County. I would suggest continuing your research and focus on Stirlingshire Mclays and their history as my sense is that where your Mclay/Maclay roots are although your great-great grandfather and family did live in Lanarkshire later.

The Maclea Livingstone Society is in contact with a number of Maclea/McLay researchers who are being informed of your interest in your Mclay Scottish ancestors.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Maclea Livingstone Society

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Doug,

Regarding Robert Mclay or Maclay born in England according to the Scottish Census records to parents John Mclay or Maclay and Mary Baird abt. 1799 I was not able to find a birth record but interestingly I did find information on some of his brothers and sisters born before and after in Polmont and Muiravonside
These births occured in the County of Stirling
Alexander Mclay b. 06/05/1798 Polmont parents John Mclay and Mary Baird
William Maclay b. 01/03/1801 Muiravonside parents John Maclay and Mary Baird
Agnes Maclay b. 09/05/1802 Muiravonside parents John Maclay and Mary Baird
Janet Mclay b. 18/09/1803 Muiravonside parents John Mclay and Mary Baird
Robert Mclay your ancestor seems to fit nicely within this group with a birthdate trend with his birth around 1799/1800
(The choice of of the spelling may be that of the family or that of the record keeper)
(Also noticed Agnes Maclay married. June 18,1830 to Thomas Baird in Muiravonside Parish)
I think would indicate the close proximity of both McLay and Baird families in this parish. The current Presbyterian Church in Muiravonside Parish apparently still has the original Bell from the original 17th century church.

I could not find a marriage record for John Mclay and Mary Baird. I would have thought they would have been married at Polmont or Muiravonside but could not find any proof of that. I came up with 5 Mary Bairds born between 1770 and 1780 in Stirlingshire and two of them interestingly enough turn out to be born at Muiravonside where three out the five children of your ancestors John Mclay and Mary Baird were born. There was Mary Baird born 08/01/1775 to WIlliam Baird and Janet Tennant and the other Mary Baird born 21/01/1776 to Alexander Baird and Henrietta Thorntown. Cant be sure which one it is. It is interesting to note that your ancestors John Mclay and Mary Baird had two sons named ALexander and William. I could not find a birth record for your great-great-great-great grandfather JOhn Mclay in the Polmont or Muiravonside area though I presume he was born sometime between 1770 and 1780 in Stirlingshire. There were a number of John Mclays born in Balfron and Killearn Parishes in Western Stirlingshire where there an old family of Mclays though I have not been able to link your family to them.

So despite the fact that the census records indicate your ancestor Robert Mclay or Maclay was born in England to my way of thinking your Mclays or Maclays have a likely Polmont and Muiravonside East Stirlingshire connections. Beyond the late 1700's it is somewhat speculative. I suspect your Mclay or Maclay ancestors farther back have their roots in Stirlingshire but I cant offer you any proof of that. I realize I am on shaky ground assuming them to be linked somewhere in time to the Balfron and Killearn Parish Mclays in Western Stirlingshire though it is entirely possible.

Obviously Jean has done a through job of putting together the pieces in your Mclay family puzzle. I am not certain that you can go much farther back than your great-great-great-great grandparents John Maclay and Mary Baird due to the limitations of the available records.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Doug,
Although we dont have a 1820 Scottish census to use, we know a little bit more about your Mclay family in the 1820's just from the family marriage records.
It would seem that most of the children of John Maclay and Mary Baird were married between 1820 and 1830 in
Muiravonside Parish and John and Mary were likely residing there at the time.
Alexander Mclay m. 02/02/1821 Agnes Maxwell
Robert Mclay m. 21/02/1823 Mary Bennie
William Maclay m. 11/09/1824 Janet Bennie
Agnes Maclay m. 18/06/1830 Thomas Baird

And the birth info of John and Mary's children with the exception of your ancestor Robert clearly indicate that your great-great-great-great grandparents were in my oppinion located in Muiravonside Parish and perhaps Polmont Parish Stirlinghisre from at least the late 1790's. I am sure there is an explanation why Robert was born in England as stated in the Scottish census records. That I cant tell you but I am certain based upon the information supplied by Jean and some of the other info I am seen regarding your family that Jean is on the right track regarding the identity of your Mclay or Maclay family line and quite certain of the Muiravonside Parish connection in Eastern Stirlingshire.

Before the late 1790's I am largely in the dark. I am not certain of where your great-great-great-great grandfather John Maclay or Mclay was born but presume he was born sometime in the 1770's in the County of Stirlingshire in Eastern Stirlingshire I would have thought based on Jean's findings. I think that there is very good chance that I have found his wife Mary Baird's birth information and she was born in the 1770's and her family lived in Muiravonside Parish but this just a hunch on my part without 100% proof. I am frustrated that could not find a John Mclay or Maclay that seemed to be a likely candidate for your great-great-great-great grandfather in the existing birth records for Muiravonside Parish. It would have especially nice to have found a marriage record for John Maclay and Mary Baird. I will check again and see if missed it somehow.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Doug,

Our Clan Historian Donald has done a great service by verifying what you have had done from other researchers. It appears that at least up to the known ancestors in Stirlingshire, you are on solid ground. Good news!

Going further back, we are always on difficult ground in the 18th century and before. Sometimes you win with records, sometimes you lose.

There is a possibility of a Bute connection, of course, but the Bute McLeas favored that spelling (and earlier, McOnlea) rather than McLay. I am not aware of any McLays or similar spellings on Bute until the 19th century.

Anyway, I have notified a couple of other McLay researchers of your query, and perhaps some of them will respond with further insight. Thanks for coming to our Forum, and do stop by from time to time, we'd love to have you and your family insights!

Kyle=

[janetparkes]

Hi Doug,

I have researched your family fairly thoroughly and have logged the descendants of most of the children of John Mclay and Mary Baird. John was a drover according to his son John's death certificate, so that may be why two of his sons were born in England, probably just across the border, maybe Northumberland where birth records are few and far between for that time. The other children I have as all baptised at Muiravonside, near Polmont. I have John Mclay the drover as the youngest of the 7 children of John Mclay and Janet McNie. The first 4 of their children were baptised at St Ninians, the last 3 at Larbert, both in Stirlingshire. I have also, incidentally, recorded that John Mclay the drover had three wives: Helen Muir, Mary Baird and Isabella Buchan, and children by all three, but most by Mary Baird. I am afraid I cannot remember my thinking and I am slightly prone to guesswork, though always well-educated guesswork I trust!! The lore of Scottish naming patterns is a fairly reliable test in many cases. The senior John Mclay I have recorded as born around 1735 in Dunipace. His wife, Janet McNie (spelled McKnie when their daughter Elizabeth was born) was from Airth.

Families from this part of Stirlingshire tend not to tie in with the Mclays of Drymen/Killearn/Balfron as a rule, certainly at this period of history, but there could be exceptions. As far as Bute goes, it was a very popular holiday destination and place of retirement for the middle classes in the second half of 19th century.... bit like the Isle of Wight in Hampshire (hope that is not too controversial a remark?!).. so, given that John Mclay and his wife Mary Love were relatively wealthy, living there does not necessarily indicate that your family had an historical connection with the island.

I found this a very interesting branch of the Mclays to research. It struck me that the Bennie family may have been rather interesting people. Two of the girls married two Mclay brothers and their many children seemed to have been talented individuals.

All the best,
Janet

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Janet,

Are you the "Jean" the researcher that Doug is refering to his above posted message that did the earlier research his Mclays. If so then a belated job well done. Great bit of research and deductive reasoning. One of things one discovers in the course of Scottish research is that a Janet is sometimes a Jean or Jane. Janet is also Jessie. Very confusing to someone not familiar with this. My Livingston ancestor originally from Morvern and later the Island of Islay in Argyllshire had a second wife named Janet but on the ship to British North America in the Summer of 1812 she was referred to as "Jessie Livingston". It actually puzzled me for a few years who the heck Jessie Livingston was until one helpful Canadian researcher pointed out to me that Jessie was almost certainly Janet Livingston and then I knew for sure it was my ancestor's wife Janet. I knew she was on the ship with him as they were married just few days in June of 1812 before the ship sailed June 24,1812 for British North America.

I also found it interesting that two brothers married a Bennie. Interesting also that their sister married a Baird. Perhaps some relation to John's wife Mary Baird I was thinking. From that I was thinking the Bennie and Baird families were connected to Muiravonside Parish in the early 1800's and before that.
regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Janet,

Are you sure that the John Mclay who was married Mary Baird and had several children from 1798 to 1803 in Polmont, England? and Muiravonside is the John Mclay who had two daughters born 1816 and 1820 to Isabella Buchan in Muiravonside? Also how did tie in the John Mclay- Helen Muir marriage which took place elsewhere in Stirlingshire to the John Mclay that had been the husband of Mary Baird of Muiravonside.? Just curious.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Some great discussion here. Doug--do you have any McLay relatives out there to be a part of our DNA Project? I think we could tease out the relationships between your Mclays and others we have tested with a DNA test quite easily. You would need a male, typically with the Mclay surname, to be tested. Do you have anyone that would be available? Let me know if you have any questions!

Kyle=