Hi John,
You made an important point that Uragaig is actually in Colonsay. I noticed that a Macmillan family that settled in Canada came from Uragaig,Colonsay so Uragaig may turn out to be where Mary McMillan's colonsay family came from or near there. DOnt understand why the Urasaig census records for Angus and James at Uragaig ended up as in Jura unless it is a mistake in the data base I have or in the census record collection itself. In any event you have discovered this important fact. We should focusing on Uragaig, Colonsay and not Jura I should think in understanding these Livingstons and McMillans. There were as I can tell alot of McMillans in Colonsay in the early 1800's and only a small number of Livingstons as least as far as the suviving Presbyterian parish records indicate. Most interesting in the early 1840's the only marriages on Colonsay involving a Livingston was Christy Livingston marrying Malcolm McMillan in 1840 and James Livingston marrying Mary Mcmillan in 1843. Since according to Mary McMillan's obituary (Mrs James Livingston) in 1910 in Canada her brother was Malcolm McMillan I would assume that what we have here is two Colonsay McMillan family members marrying two Livingstons James and Christy (Christina).
Anyways figuring out the focal point for your Livingstons (and probably these McMillans) is Uragaig, Colonsay and not Jura is big.
regards,
Donald
James Livingston
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi ROberta,
Thanks for that. There were a few Livingstons before the early 1840's marriage records we were looking with Debbies relatives at Colonsay at but not as many as thought there would be. Perhaps that indicates as in the case of John and Debbie's livingstons that a number of them migrated from Mull to Colonsay and are rooted in Mull as John and Debbie have suggested in their family information. INteresting that Mull seems to be the origin point for alot of our highland Livngston family including yours.
regards,
Donald
Thanks for that. There were a few Livingstons before the early 1840's marriage records we were looking with Debbies relatives at Colonsay at but not as many as thought there would be. Perhaps that indicates as in the case of John and Debbie's livingstons that a number of them migrated from Mull to Colonsay and are rooted in Mull as John and Debbie have suggested in their family information. INteresting that Mull seems to be the origin point for alot of our highland Livngston family including yours.
regards,
Donald
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: James Livingston
Donald,
This could explain why we had concentrated on Jura, & the names listed below, are just names I picked up from Uragaig over the years, which probably help to show how few Livingstones ever lived in the area. Even stranger, I can find no Livingstone deaths listed for the isand.
I could be wrong about this, but all the Livingstones on Colonsay, appear to have lived at Uragaig, it would not stretch the imagination too much, to assume that possibly the older Livingstones resident there were relations of Angus.
Note: Colonsay was part of a wider parish, which included Jura. The same minister
therefore kept more than one Register and unfortunately he sometimes made errors.
To compound the difficulty, certain resource centres do not distinguish between the
islands of Jura and Colonsay, since the Registers are all recorded on the same
microfilm, entitled Jura Parish. Thus researchers overseas may have been led to
believe that an event took place in the Island of Jura which actually occurred in
Colonsay; to avoid doubt, please note that the marriages listed here are all extracted
from the correct, Colonsay Register.
1816
Donald Livingstone & Mary Graham
1842
Apr 14 Donald McMillan & Anne Smith
Apr 15 James Livingston & Mary McMillan
1797
Archd. Livingstone & Mary Blue Mary
Archd. Livingston & Mary Blue ????
John
This could explain why we had concentrated on Jura, & the names listed below, are just names I picked up from Uragaig over the years, which probably help to show how few Livingstones ever lived in the area. Even stranger, I can find no Livingstone deaths listed for the isand.
I could be wrong about this, but all the Livingstones on Colonsay, appear to have lived at Uragaig, it would not stretch the imagination too much, to assume that possibly the older Livingstones resident there were relations of Angus.
Note: Colonsay was part of a wider parish, which included Jura. The same minister
therefore kept more than one Register and unfortunately he sometimes made errors.
To compound the difficulty, certain resource centres do not distinguish between the
islands of Jura and Colonsay, since the Registers are all recorded on the same
microfilm, entitled Jura Parish. Thus researchers overseas may have been led to
believe that an event took place in the Island of Jura which actually occurred in
Colonsay; to avoid doubt, please note that the marriages listed here are all extracted
from the correct, Colonsay Register.
1816
Donald Livingstone & Mary Graham
1842
Apr 14 Donald McMillan & Anne Smith
Apr 15 James Livingston & Mary McMillan
1797
Archd. Livingstone & Mary Blue Mary
Archd. Livingston & Mary Blue ????
John
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
HI John,
Angus could very easily be related to that Donald Livingston who married Mary Graham in the early 1800's. Again I find it interesting that there were so few Livingstones in the records. Certainly we now know that at least two of them James Livingston and Christy Livingston (later Christina McMillan) were living together with old Angus and his wife Margaret Livingston in 1841 at Uragaig, Colonsay and are almost certainly relatives of old Angus Livingston of some form be it his own offspring or that of a unknown brother. I think we are pretty safe to assume that.
Dont forget to include in your above listing, Christy Livingston and husband Malcolm McMillan where married in 1840 in the Colonsay records as well and who appear at Uragaig with James, Hugh and old ANgus Livingston and his wife Margaret in 1841 in the census records. Their marriage date I probably mentioned in one my earlier posting regarding James Livingston and his wife Margaret McMillan.
Not many Livingstons in the early Colonsay records are there? This leads me to definitely assume your Livingstons were from Mull as our we suspect. THen there is the fact that Debbie also had info that her Livingstons had their roots in Mull although at least some oldtimers thought their was an Islay connection for some reason. We have not come across that in the records however and the Uragaig, Colonsay connection seems with documentation the most tangible lead we have on this family prior to its despersal from the highlands into lowland Scotland and to Canada and Australia.
In the 1840's the clearances were happening in Argyllshire and we should look into the possbility old Angus, Hugh, James and the McMillans were given the boot out of their small tenant holding in Uragaig by their landlord. When did the clearances take place on Colonsay? Does anyone know? Ok I did find out interesting enough that the first clearance took place as early as the 1790's and another one in 1806 cleared out so many for Prince Edward Edward Island that the landlord was forced to look for replacement tenants from Ross of Mull. Bingo. It could be then that the old veteran Angus Livingston and Margaret Hale or Mcphail and that Donald Livingston and Mary Graham were a couple of Livingston settlers from Mull origin brought to Colonsay from Mull by the landlord after his Colonsay native tenants had been left their tenant holding to go to the colonies apparently many going to Prince Edward Island, Canada. Why old Angus and the others left sometime after 1841 is of course still a mystery but at least I think I know when old Angus might have come to Colonsay. Perhaps his Livingston kin were here before 1806 as there is one livingston which Roberta found located in Colonsay from the late 1700's but it would be interesting to know if Angus was one of the Mull residents brought in after 1806. Now given that ANgus was in the military he might not have married or been ready to settle outside of Mull until after the Napoleonic war was over which was several years after 1806. So who knows for sure. But clearly the Colonsay info does clearly acknowled the fact that Mull residents were at one time or another brought to Colonsay to settle its tenant holdings which is an important detail to know.
Angus Livingston and family whenever they left Mull for Colonsay apparently lived in what known as the Uragaig Crofting District on Colonsay. This is not in Jura as Jura was included in what was known the western divsion of Colonsay Parish. Next time you are in the area, perhaps when the weather is more favourable you could take some photos and share them with our the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society of the ruins of these crofts at Uragaig if indeed the ruins still exist.
regards,
Donald
regards,
Donald
Angus could very easily be related to that Donald Livingston who married Mary Graham in the early 1800's. Again I find it interesting that there were so few Livingstones in the records. Certainly we now know that at least two of them James Livingston and Christy Livingston (later Christina McMillan) were living together with old Angus and his wife Margaret Livingston in 1841 at Uragaig, Colonsay and are almost certainly relatives of old Angus Livingston of some form be it his own offspring or that of a unknown brother. I think we are pretty safe to assume that.
Dont forget to include in your above listing, Christy Livingston and husband Malcolm McMillan where married in 1840 in the Colonsay records as well and who appear at Uragaig with James, Hugh and old ANgus Livingston and his wife Margaret in 1841 in the census records. Their marriage date I probably mentioned in one my earlier posting regarding James Livingston and his wife Margaret McMillan.
Not many Livingstons in the early Colonsay records are there? This leads me to definitely assume your Livingstons were from Mull as our we suspect. THen there is the fact that Debbie also had info that her Livingstons had their roots in Mull although at least some oldtimers thought their was an Islay connection for some reason. We have not come across that in the records however and the Uragaig, Colonsay connection seems with documentation the most tangible lead we have on this family prior to its despersal from the highlands into lowland Scotland and to Canada and Australia.
In the 1840's the clearances were happening in Argyllshire and we should look into the possbility old Angus, Hugh, James and the McMillans were given the boot out of their small tenant holding in Uragaig by their landlord. When did the clearances take place on Colonsay? Does anyone know? Ok I did find out interesting enough that the first clearance took place as early as the 1790's and another one in 1806 cleared out so many for Prince Edward Edward Island that the landlord was forced to look for replacement tenants from Ross of Mull. Bingo. It could be then that the old veteran Angus Livingston and Margaret Hale or Mcphail and that Donald Livingston and Mary Graham were a couple of Livingston settlers from Mull origin brought to Colonsay from Mull by the landlord after his Colonsay native tenants had been left their tenant holding to go to the colonies apparently many going to Prince Edward Island, Canada. Why old Angus and the others left sometime after 1841 is of course still a mystery but at least I think I know when old Angus might have come to Colonsay. Perhaps his Livingston kin were here before 1806 as there is one livingston which Roberta found located in Colonsay from the late 1700's but it would be interesting to know if Angus was one of the Mull residents brought in after 1806. Now given that ANgus was in the military he might not have married or been ready to settle outside of Mull until after the Napoleonic war was over which was several years after 1806. So who knows for sure. But clearly the Colonsay info does clearly acknowled the fact that Mull residents were at one time or another brought to Colonsay to settle its tenant holdings which is an important detail to know.
Angus Livingston and family whenever they left Mull for Colonsay apparently lived in what known as the Uragaig Crofting District on Colonsay. This is not in Jura as Jura was included in what was known the western divsion of Colonsay Parish. Next time you are in the area, perhaps when the weather is more favourable you could take some photos and share them with our the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society of the ruins of these crofts at Uragaig if indeed the ruins still exist.
regards,
Donald
regards,
Donald
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: James Livingston
Donald,
If you check the 1851 census, all the Livingstones appear to have disappeared from Colonsay completely, now I know my side, John & Agnes went to Islay, we still have relatives there, unfortunately, I don't have any contact with them, I'll work on that one when I get home.
There is a theory that Angus had a brother Donald, & his fathers name was Neil, Dawn Livingstone mentioned this as a possibility somewhere a few years ago.
Christys' relationship I am not absolutely convinced of, obviously another close relative, just not sure who at the moment, I have had correspondence with a lady from Australia, who has a different, but plausible theory on who Cirsty married. Not had time to check the two theories out as yet.
Anyway, I've got to go do some honest work, so I probably will not be back until Thursday/Friday,
John
If you check the 1851 census, all the Livingstones appear to have disappeared from Colonsay completely, now I know my side, John & Agnes went to Islay, we still have relatives there, unfortunately, I don't have any contact with them, I'll work on that one when I get home.
There is a theory that Angus had a brother Donald, & his fathers name was Neil, Dawn Livingstone mentioned this as a possibility somewhere a few years ago.
Christys' relationship I am not absolutely convinced of, obviously another close relative, just not sure who at the moment, I have had correspondence with a lady from Australia, who has a different, but plausible theory on who Cirsty married. Not had time to check the two theories out as yet.
Anyway, I've got to go do some honest work, so I probably will not be back until Thursday/Friday,
John
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi Deb and John,
There are lots of Mcmillan families recorded in the 1841 in the Colonsay/Jura area but
there is only one other family of McMillans recorded at Urigaig or Uragaig in the 1841 Scottish Census at Colonsay/Jura
and that is
Donald McMillan age 50 agricultural laborer
Catharine age 40
Donald age 14
John age 12
Malcolm age 6
Ann age 3
ALthough it is a Donald and Catharine McMillan unfortunately Mary is not living nor does the Ann listed match the birth date given for the sister Ann living years later in Wiarton, Ontario Canada. So another mystery. There is true enough a Malcolm and Ann in this family but this may not be Mary's family. Certainly this Malcolm age 6 is not the same Malcolm born in 1816 age 25 living with Angus and Margaret, James and Hugh Livington at the Livingston farm at Urigaig or Uragaig, (Colonsay) Jura in the 1841 census. Very mystifying I must say. This should have been so simple with everyone located in Colonsay in the 1841 census for me and in the parish records to verify things but it was not to be. I know where they should have been there but luck is not with us on this one.
Livingstons were few and far between in the Colonsay area prior to 1800 apparently as we only have a one birth recorded for a child of Archibald Livington and Mary Blue in 1797 but no marriage record for them in Colonsay or Jura.
There are lots of Mcmillan families recorded in the 1841 in the Colonsay/Jura area but
there is only one other family of McMillans recorded at Urigaig or Uragaig in the 1841 Scottish Census at Colonsay/Jura
and that is
Donald McMillan age 50 agricultural laborer
Catharine age 40
Donald age 14
John age 12
Malcolm age 6
Ann age 3
ALthough it is a Donald and Catharine McMillan unfortunately Mary is not living nor does the Ann listed match the birth date given for the sister Ann living years later in Wiarton, Ontario Canada. So another mystery. There is true enough a Malcolm and Ann in this family but this may not be Mary's family. Certainly this Malcolm age 6 is not the same Malcolm born in 1816 age 25 living with Angus and Margaret, James and Hugh Livington at the Livingston farm at Urigaig or Uragaig, (Colonsay) Jura in the 1841 census. Very mystifying I must say. This should have been so simple with everyone located in Colonsay in the 1841 census for me and in the parish records to verify things but it was not to be. I know where they should have been there but luck is not with us on this one.
Livingstons were few and far between in the Colonsay area prior to 1800 apparently as we only have a one birth recorded for a child of Archibald Livington and Mary Blue in 1797 but no marriage record for them in Colonsay or Jura.
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi John,
Just checking but
hopefully old ANgus b. 1775 or 1780 of Colonsay/Jura who probably originated from Mull was not being linked to the Neil Livington of Mull/Ulva who was the grandfather of Dr. Livingstone as a son of Neil Livingston. There is absolutely no evidence of that. According to Dr. Livingstone's eldest brother John Livingstone 1811-1899 in a published letter written in the 1890's his Uncles were John b.1777 the eldest, Charles, Donald and Duncan Livingston. His father was Neil born abt. 1788 was the youngest son of Neil Livington Sr. Neil Livingston and his wife Mary Morrison were married at Lettermore, Mull in 1774. Dr. Livingstone added the e to the family name by the 1850's. In the earlier correspondence of the Doctor and in family parish records if was generally Livingston.
regards,
Donald
Just checking but
hopefully old ANgus b. 1775 or 1780 of Colonsay/Jura who probably originated from Mull was not being linked to the Neil Livington of Mull/Ulva who was the grandfather of Dr. Livingstone as a son of Neil Livingston. There is absolutely no evidence of that. According to Dr. Livingstone's eldest brother John Livingstone 1811-1899 in a published letter written in the 1890's his Uncles were John b.1777 the eldest, Charles, Donald and Duncan Livingston. His father was Neil born abt. 1788 was the youngest son of Neil Livington Sr. Neil Livingston and his wife Mary Morrison were married at Lettermore, Mull in 1774. Dr. Livingstone added the e to the family name by the 1850's. In the earlier correspondence of the Doctor and in family parish records if was generally Livingston.
regards,
Donald
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi John and Debbie,
The 1881 Census for Wellington North,County, Ontario gives weaver James Livingston's age as 66 or a birthdate of around 1815. In 1871 weaver James Livingston's age is 54. In the 1841 Census recorded at Urigaig or Uragaig, Colonsay/Jura James Livingston is recorded as being 25. So his birthdate could be in the 1815/1816/1817 range I suspect.
John there is a Hugh Livingston in the 1881Ontario Census married to a Margaret. What was the name of Hugh's wife in Scotland?
regards,
Donald
The 1881 Census for Wellington North,County, Ontario gives weaver James Livingston's age as 66 or a birthdate of around 1815. In 1871 weaver James Livingston's age is 54. In the 1841 Census recorded at Urigaig or Uragaig, Colonsay/Jura James Livingston is recorded as being 25. So his birthdate could be in the 1815/1816/1817 range I suspect.
John there is a Hugh Livingston in the 1881Ontario Census married to a Margaret. What was the name of Hugh's wife in Scotland?
regards,
Donald
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Roberta Ann
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:56 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi Donald;
Butting-in!
You mentioned James, above, 1881 Census age 66.
Household:
Margaret 57
Margaret 30
Mary 28
Jane 26
Angus 24
Elizabeth 20
Sophia 16
Donald 9
May or Mary 8
Living next to McIntyres.
I noticed the first sons name was Angus. What are your thoughts?
Regards;
Roberta
Butting-in!
You mentioned James, above, 1881 Census age 66.
Household:
Margaret 57
Margaret 30
Mary 28
Jane 26
Angus 24
Elizabeth 20
Sophia 16
Donald 9
May or Mary 8
Living next to McIntyres.
I noticed the first sons name was Angus. What are your thoughts?
Regards;
Roberta
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: James Livingston
Hi Roberta,
Welcome.
In the 1881 Census its actually "Mary" Livingston age 57 rather than Margaret. Mary McMillan according to her descendant Debbie and the 1871 and 1881 census records. THere was as you state a daughter named Margaret.
Arthur Township is in Wellington North County, Ontario and the family resided in the Mount Forest area if you are familiar with that part of Ontario. Quite right there is son named ANgus though the eldest son Duncan according to James and Mary's descendant Debbie Livingstone was Duncan born in ontario in 1848. Certainly the fact that James named one of his sons ANgus however I agree lends some credibility to the notion that James is in fact a son of the ANgus b. 1780 and Margaret in the 1841 Scottish census records at Urigaig, JUra or actually Uragaig, Colonsay. Angus however was not the eldest son.Also there is a daughter is named Margaret and ANgus Livingston's wife was Margaret though the eldest daughter was Ann b. 1843 in Scotland. The rest of James and Mary's children were born in Ontario which gives us a pretty good idea that James and mary left Colonsay for Canada shortly after the birth of Ann in 1843 which was their first child.
John Livingston a descendant of Angus and Margaret Livingston notes that Urigaig or Uragaig is actually at Colonsay but for some reason it is listed in the 1841 census info at nearby Jura. Something we need to make clear if any more descendants of ANgus and Margaret and their children contact the forum in the future. John fortunately spotted that. He is from Scotland so he is also a little more familiar with the area which helps. Also pointed out correct spelling of the croft settlement was Uragaig. I am finding from time to time spelling errors in the old Scottish census records.
regards,
Donald
Welcome.
In the 1881 Census its actually "Mary" Livingston age 57 rather than Margaret. Mary McMillan according to her descendant Debbie and the 1871 and 1881 census records. THere was as you state a daughter named Margaret.
Arthur Township is in Wellington North County, Ontario and the family resided in the Mount Forest area if you are familiar with that part of Ontario. Quite right there is son named ANgus though the eldest son Duncan according to James and Mary's descendant Debbie Livingstone was Duncan born in ontario in 1848. Certainly the fact that James named one of his sons ANgus however I agree lends some credibility to the notion that James is in fact a son of the ANgus b. 1780 and Margaret in the 1841 Scottish census records at Urigaig, JUra or actually Uragaig, Colonsay. Angus however was not the eldest son.Also there is a daughter is named Margaret and ANgus Livingston's wife was Margaret though the eldest daughter was Ann b. 1843 in Scotland. The rest of James and Mary's children were born in Ontario which gives us a pretty good idea that James and mary left Colonsay for Canada shortly after the birth of Ann in 1843 which was their first child.
John Livingston a descendant of Angus and Margaret Livingston notes that Urigaig or Uragaig is actually at Colonsay but for some reason it is listed in the 1841 census info at nearby Jura. Something we need to make clear if any more descendants of ANgus and Margaret and their children contact the forum in the future. John fortunately spotted that. He is from Scotland so he is also a little more familiar with the area which helps. Also pointed out correct spelling of the croft settlement was Uragaig. I am finding from time to time spelling errors in the old Scottish census records.
regards,
Donald