Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ontario

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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:25 am

I too saw a Thomas Doig born 1796 inKilmadock, Perthshire, Scotland - ancestry.ca gave me 8 hints on other family trees. But when I looked at the details, every one of them listed him as dying in Kincardine, Perthshire, , Scotland in 1880 so I'm also thinking this is a different Thomas.
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:34 pm

HI David,
Your ancestor Thomas Doag very likely was born in Kilmadock,Perthshire, Scotland like this other family or families from Kilmadock that settled in St. Jerusalem and Lachute along a tributary of the Ottawa River. Regarding the Thomas Doag mentioned in their research, I found out that there is one other Thomas Doag born May 17,1796 elsewhere in Kilmadock,Perthshire Scotland that was a son of a Charles Doag and Susan Menzies not mentioned I dont think in the two family trees that I saw online. At least I saw no reference to Charles Doag and Susan Menzies. I think there might have been some attempt to link Susan Doag who married Archibald Livingston to these other Doag families but they dont seem to have been successful. FOr that matter I have no way of knowing if your ancestor Thomas Doag is the Thomas Doag that I found son of Charles Doag and Susan Menzies. I understand that Susan Livingston;s death record only mentions her father Thomas and does not mention the name of her mother regretably. So we dont have too many clues in the Canadian records to the Scottish origin of your Doigs. I do think that is likely they are of the Kilmadock, Perthshire Doags.

It looks like the the Lachute and St. Jerusalem parish Argenteuil/Quebec Doags are a distant relation at best and probably your ancestor Thomas Doag whether or not he lived for a time in Quebec before settling in Simcoe County , I am going to try to focus on him. My last chance may be the land records for Con. 7 Lot 19 North half Innisfil Township. I can probably figure out from them when he first acquired this land and if i was very lucky the deed might tell me where he lived before coming to Innisfil Township. Then again if he was already living in Innisfil Township at the time of his land purchase then it will tell me only when he bought this lot and little else. I have often used this process to determine where a settler /land grantee originally lived but unfortunately it not always tells me what I want to know. When I get a chance to search for the deed I will do so possibly later next week. Thomas Doag at Concession 7 Lot 19 north half is listed as one of the Innisfil pioneer settlers and may have been in included in an 1837 list of residents but I am not certain as yet he in Innisfil Township that early. Will be checking that out though.

Regardless of Thomas Doag's origins, it is certain that Archibald Livingston was born in Lower Canada/Quebec in the 1830's with a connection to the Presbyterian and possibly Church of England in Quebec which is yet another clue which points to the Argenteiul Livingstons with interesting connection to both churches in the records. Most the 18th century Livingston families I have researched generally clearly state themselves as being either Presbyterian or CHurch of ENgland (Espiscopalian). The fact that both your Archibald in ONtario and that Livingston family in Grenville,QUebec seem to have a dual connection to both churches in the records is not odd enough to make we wonder that if this is indeed the same family, not to mention the fact that the 1836 birth date is suggested in at least two of the Ontario records. Also of course the fact that we know that the Grenville Archibald Livingston did not die and did indeed leave Quebec as stated in that Argenteuil history book and as indicated in the QUebec Census records and would either have gone to Ontario or the States. Despite the Wyoming info, there is no evidence that Archibald Livingston born in the 1830's from Quebec or Canada ever settled in Wyoming or any other State in the 1800's.

Your ancestor Thomas Doag I could not find in the 1871 Ontario Census and may have died sometime between 1861 and 1871 in Innifil Township. Again the land records may indicate what happened to his land at the time of his death and they may be a will of sorts. A will might also name any of his other children which might prove helpful. Perhaps Susan Doag and her husband Archibald Livingston took care of sellling his farm. THen again they were involved in land transactions that might have involved their own land in Innisfil Township. I will let you know when I find out what happened to Thomas Doag of Innisfil Township.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:30 am

Hi David,

Important update. It would appear that your ancestor Thomas Doag Concession 7 Lot 19 north half was included in the Waltons directory of residents located in Innisfil Township, Simcoe County residing there circa 1837. So it likes he was residing in Innisfil for sometime before his daughter married Archibald Livingston of Quebec in the mid 1850's. Interesting. I am really curious if I can find anything as to his origins in his deed or in the township papers. If he is an original grantee or patentee of the lot he might be included in the Innisfil Township Township papers collection which might include some rare old documents from his initial land transactions way back when. IF the Innifil info I am seeing is correct he was a resident in Innisfil Township as far back as the 1830's at least which I did not realize. Anyways I will find out what type of land transaction was involved in his getting his lot and when he did that. WOnt solve the mystery of Archibald Livingston but might resolve whether there was any possible Quebec connection between Archibald Livingston and his father in law Thomas Doag. That of course is probably hoping for too much. I will also find out if the Free Church marriage records for the Innisfil congregation circa 1850-1856 survives. That would have been almost certainly the church that Thomas Doag and his children attended in Innisfil attended according to the 1861 Innisfil Township Census info. The children of Susan Doag and Archibald Livingston were listed in the census as Free Church members as well so I think that is where to look for a marriage record.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Donald, I came across this at the Simcoe County Branch of the OGS:

http://www.simcoebogs.com/database/sett ... chFor=doig

The first record returned in the 1861 census you've already found. The second I believe is of more interest at the moment - there's a Simcoe County probate record available for Thomas Doig, died 1863. This explains why he was not on the 1871 census as you mentioned. But the page # listed is the page in the index records I believe, and not the actual document. Good to know at least that it is available.
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:42 pm

Hi David,

Thanks thats great to know. Knowing that there is a probated will and the year will make it very easy to locate for Simcoe County, next time I drop by the archives. I dont research non Livingstons generally speaking but in the case where the relatives info is critical to establishing the origins of a Livingston where we are having some challenges in the research like this I think it justified. THere is an Innisfil Historical Society who might have some further info on your ancestor Thomas Doig who seems to have been included in that Walton Directory of settlers from 1837 in Innisfil Township. I this think list was also included in Andrew Hunters history of Simcoe County. If correct then your ancestor Thomas Doig must have acquired his 100 acres or whatever it was on the North half of Concession 7 Lot 19 prior to 1837. He may have been one of the early Scottish settlers in the Innisfil Township area. I dont know if we will be able to establish that Thomas Doig resided in Quebec or settled in Upper Canada directly from Scotland in the early 1800's. I am hoping that he is the original grantee of Con. 7 lot 19 north half and there is some info in the old Innisfil Township Papers at the archives. The Township Papers are a bit hit and miss depending on whether or not the settler is an original grantee from the Crown and did not purchase the land from a later owner. As to why Archibald Livingston ended up in Innisfil Township,Simcoe County we may never know. Suffice to say Simcoe County was a major area for Scottish settlement in Upper Canada in the early 1800's and Archibald was not the only Scot from QUebec to later settle in Simcoe County. Likely by word of mouth, letters etc. Scots in Scotland, Scots in Quebec, Scots arriving in Upper Canada were encouraged to settle or join friends and relatives in one of the Townships in Simcoe County. At this point thats about all i can say about young Archibald Livingstons motivations from leaving Quebec for Simcoe County, Ontario. Dont see anything that point that he knew the Doigs before his arrival in the 1850's to Simcoe County despite my attempts to make a connection.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:53 am

Hi David,

Further update. I believe one of Archibald and Susan (Doig) Livingston's children is buried in the old Sixth Line pioneer Cemetery in the Township of Innisfil, Simcoe County before Archibald Sr. and his wife moved on to Lobo Township,Middlesex County, Ontario. This cemetery I understand was connected to an old Presbyterian Church established in the 1840's. I understand this was their son ALexander who died on October 1 1861 as a infant. The 1861 census indicates Alexander is two at the time of th census but the cemetery stone indicates he was only about a month when he died. Young ALexander is mentioned in the 1861 Census and noticed that he was not in the 1871 Census with the family so assumed he had died. The stone refers to Alexander Livingston as the son of Archibald and Susannah Livingston so I know it is the right family. The cemetery is apparently located on the fifth concession, Concession 5 Lot 15 sixth line road if that is any help. Hope to find out more about the congregation and church associated with this cemetery. I am wondering if it was the old Free Church or another Presbyterian church congregation? I am wondering if the former church here was where Archibald Livingston Sr. and Susan Doig were married?

It is my theory that their eldest son Thomas born 1856 was named after susannahs father Thomas Doag and the next son ALexander named after Archibalds father Alexander. Yet another interesting coincidence if true that supports the notion that your Archibald Livingston born in Quebec was the Archibald Livingston born in Quebec son of Alexander Livingston of Grenville, Argenteuil,Quebec.

regards

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:28 am

Hi David,

Im not sure but I think that they and the Ontario Cemetery index recorded the names of the parents Archibald and Susanah as well as son ALexander and someone ended up getting mixed up. There could be three children named Alexander Archibald and SUssanah buried there but I suspect it is just ALexander and that is why there only one stone included in the photographs that of ALexander who died in 1861. Regarding Presbyterian churches. This old sixth line cemetery is the oldest PResbyterian cemetery in the area and was apparently used by both Presbyterians and the breakaway Presbyterian Free church congregation. THis was at Concession 5 lot 15 north half. Now there was another Presbyterian church and cemetery where presently there is the Churchill United Church Con.4 lot 15 6306 Yonge Street. The history is bit confusing but if I understand correctly before the present church built in the 1880's there was a Churchill Presbyterian congregation of the Free Church variety. I would have thought then that this was the site of the Free Church that Archibald and Sussanah attended in the 1860's but clearly they used the other Presbyterian church cemetery up the road to bury their son Alexander in 1861. Anyways one of the ministers from one of these local congregations then may of married your Archibald Livingston and Sussanah in the mid 1850's I would think. So we just need to find out from the Innisfil Historical Society if marriage record for Archibald Livingston and Susannah Doig exists from either of the two Presbyterian congregations Presbyterian or breakaway Free Church.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:08 pm

Hi David,

If Archibald Livingston and Susannah Doig's marriage entry exists it may be included in a collection of Home District Marriage Registers 1848-1857 Volume 12 which includes some records of ministers from Simcoe County. This is located on MS 248 Reel 2 on microfilm at the archives. Apparently it has an index of names at the end of the microfilm, so that perhaps makes things easier. This early marriage entry if it still exists at all will unfortunately not list the name of Archibald Livingston's parents, but at least it would give you some idea of what church they were married in for certain and what precise year and date.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:18 am

That's good to know - I'll track that down and look to see if it's there. With any lookups/etc I'd like to help wherever possible. I've been thinking of traveling to the Simcoe County Archives but I've never been to any archives before, so I'm reading on what is involved, putting together a list of what I'd look for.
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:24 am

Donald - I've reached out to the Innisfil Historical Society via email to see if they can point me in the right direction with regard to the marriage record. Also, I've put in a request with my local library to borrow some film from the Archives of Ontario, but apparently that process can take weeks. I'll let you know what I find.
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