Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ontario

Public Forum for anyone interested in tracing their roots.
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.

Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ontario

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:21 am

Canadian Livingstone wrote:Hi David,
An Update

I dont have any detailed birth information on your ancestor Archibald Livingston born in the 1831-1836 period in Quebec or Lower Canada as is was referred to as back then. It is possible there is some but I am not certain what parish in Quebec or Lower Canada he was born in or for that matter whether he was born/baptised Presbyterian or Church of England (Episcopalian). Appart from the fact that we know he was born in the 1831-1836 period in Quebec, we really are so far in the dark regarding his early life in Quebec or where he came from there.

I would assume that Archibald married his wife Susanna/Susan (Doid)(who was born in Ontario in 1838) sometime around 1855 or a little earlier likely in Ontario. Check for them in the Innisfil,Simcoe County Presbyterian church records circa 1855. The Doids attended the Free Church in the area apparently around this time. This was made up of Presbyterians many of whom had broken away from the main church in the 1840's. I think there was one Free Church congregation established in Innisfil and another in Barrie around this time. Susanah Livingston was the daughter of Farmer Thomas Doid who had a 100 acre farm on the North Half of Con 7 Lot 19 Innisfil Township,Simcoe County according to the 1861 Innisfil Township,Simcoe County,Ontario Census. I dont know when he acquired this property as yet but it would have been sometime before 1861. Thomas Doid is listed as farmer householder in this census. His age is recorded as 71 and he is apparently a widower. Most interesting is that residing with Thomas is young Archibald Livingston age recorded as 28 born Lower Canada. Also Thomas Doid's daughther Susan Livingston age recorded as 21 with eldest children Thomas age 2 and an Alexander Livingston age 2. I believe it likely that the son Thomas was name after Susan's father and Alexander after Archibald's father. And I am suspecting his father was possibly by an Alexander Livingston at this point in time.


Archibald and Susan's son Thomas was born May 8,1856 so an 1855/1854 marriage seems probable in Simcoe County likely. I dont know when Archibald Livingston arrived in Simcoe County and was not able to establish that from the existing records in the archives except that he is living with his wife, his two eldest children and widowed Father in law Thomas Dowd since before 1861 sometime. Finding the marriage information of Archibald Livingston and Susan or Susanah Doid in the old Presbyterian church marriage records will prove helpful but it seems reasonbly certain that Archibald was residing in Simcoe County likely in the mid 1850's. Before that I cant say and unfortunately the 1851/1852 Census records for Canada West (ONtari0) and Canada East (Quebec) are partly missing. From what has survived it so far looks like Archibald could have been in Quebec at the time of the 1851/1852 Census which would make sense as he was still a youth more than likely still living with his family in Quebec rather than looking for work or a wife in Ontario at this stage in his life. Still the Archibald I see in the 1851/1852 Quebec Census residing with is parents and sibblings may not be him. I am not sure.

I think you mentioned you were familiar with the 1871 Census Innifil Township,Simcoe County South Div.3 info regarding Archibald. Just to recap for the others we have on Div. 3 Page 24 Archibald "Livinston" age 35 laborer born Quebec, Susanna age 30 born Ontario, Thomas age 14, Rebecca age 7, Archibald Jr. age 5 and Joseph age 2. Their son Alexander born abt. 1859 has apparently died sometime between the 1861 and 1871 Census. Interestingly this census records Archibald as 35 which gives him a birth date about 1836 or 1835 while the 1861 Census states he is 28 at the time which give us a birth date of about 1833 or 1832. The 1871 Census also tells us that Achibald and family are residing at Concession 7 Lot 15 but size of their lot is not clear. I did not do a detailed deed check but it appears they may have been on this lot around 1869. Whether before that I am not certain at this point in time. Clearly in 1861 they were still on the north half of Concession 7 Lot 19 which was Archibalds father in law Thomas Doid's farm.

The 1881 Canadian Census indicates that Archibald was born in Quebec around 1831 and in 1881 was living in the Township of Innisfil, Simcoe South.

Later as you stated by 1891 he is residing in Lobo Township, Middlesex County where he died possibly on April 1st 1907 age 76 his residence at the time of his death Concession 9 Lot 19 Lobo Township. The death record again seems to lead us to think he was born around 1831. The 1901 Census for Lobo township, Middlesex County,Ontario indicates that Archibalds wife Susanna was born Feb. 14,1838. For some odd reason Archibald was not listed in the 1901 Census with his wife as far as I can tell. She seems to be just living with her eldest son Thomas in Lobo Township, Middlesex County, Ontario. But the death record clearly states he died in 1907. I wonder what his tombstone states?

Regarding Archibalds 1907 death record, it was just a very brief entry which as I mentioned told us very little about him and once again suggested an earlier birthdate of about 1831. Death records in Ontario, Canada before World War 1 are extremely short of detailed family info and for generally do not even include the name of the deceased parents. I dont know if you have gone to the archives and accessed Archibald`s death record but chances are slim that it names his parents regretably. As Archibald and his Susanna were married before 1856 possibly in 1855 or a little before likely in Ontario in a Presbyterian Church it is unlikely that the marriage record should you be lucky enough to find it lists the name of Archibald or Susanna's parents.

So the only hope is to somehow find his birth record in the Quebec church records to determine whom his parents might be which will be challenging unless you know where he lived in Quebec prior to coming to Ontario or at the time of his birth. I noticed a Archibald Livingston born abt. 1836 in Canada listed in the 1851/1852 Quebec Census residing at Grenville Deux, Montagnes County, East Quebec but I dont have any further information or whether or not that is your ancestor Archibald. I have taken a look at the 1851/1852 Quebec Census Records and the Archibald born at.b 1836 is the only one that seems to fit. His parents according to the census were Alexander Livingston born abt. 1804 and his wife Catharine born abt. 1822 both in Scotland. Alexander and Catharine circa 1851/1852 had a large family of 10 children; Christy age 16, Archibald age 15, Margaret age 14, Catharine age 13,Mary age 12,
Donald age 11, Jane age 8, John age 6, Agnes age 5, Euphemia age 2. My sense is that Alexander and Catharine Livingston are of highland Livingston origin and settled in Quebec sometime in the 1830's. All of their children were born in Quebec. I am curious if their son Archibald shows up in later Quebec census records if not then he is quite possibly your ancestor Archibald that ended up firstly in Innisfil,Simcoe County and then Lobo township, Middlesex County, Ontario. If it were this Archibald then he would at least according to the QUebec records abt. 15 years of age in 1851/1852 and not much more than 19 or so when he married Susanna. So this may or may not be the Archibald Livingston that shows up in the Ontario records as being born about 1831.
There is only one other Archibald Livingston in the 1851/52 Quebec/Canada East Census records and he is born abt. 1828 in Quebec and he resided in Lacome Parish, Terrebonne County with his widowed father Neil Livingston born abt. 1791 in Scotland and Archibalds sibblings Sarah and Daniel. Due to the incomplete nature of the surviving 1851/1852 Census in Canada it does present some challenges.


regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:35 am

Archibald Livingston b. abt. 1831? or 1836? in Quebec d. 1901in Lobo Township,Middlesex County,Ontario
married about 1855 Susanna Doig born Jan.14,1838 in Ontario d. Feb.28,1923 Victoria Home,London,Middlesex County,Ontario
1.Thomas Livingston b. May 8,1856 (named after Susanna's father Thomas Doid of Innifil Township,Simcoe County,Ontario)
2.Alexander Livingston b. abt. 1858/1859 d. before 1861 (named after Archibald's father?)
2.Rebecca Livingston b. abt. 1863/1864 m. George Kerr
3.Archibald Livingston b. April 23,1867
4.Joseph Alexander Livingston b. Jan. 16,1870 m. Catharine Sinclair
5. John Livingston b. Oct. 22 1873
6. Frank Livingston b. abt. 1877
7.Edward Livingston b. March 3, 1878
8.Lewis Herbert Livingston b. Dec. 2, 1880.

1901 death record abt. 1831 Quebec, Lobo Township, Middlesex County, Ontario
1901 Census b. abt. 1835 Quebec, Lobo Township,Middlesex County,Ontario
1891 Census b. abt. 1831 Quebec Lobo Township,Middlesex County,Ontario
1881 Census b,abt. 1831 Quebec Innisfil Township, Simcoe County South, Ontario
1871 Census b.abt. 1836 Quebec Innisfil Township, Simcoe County South,Ontario
1861 Census b. abt. 1833 Lower Canda Innisfil Township, Simcoe County South,Ontario
1855? married Susan or Susanna Doid of Innisfil Township,Simcoe County South,Ontario?
1851 Census (Lower Canada-Quebec) b.abt. 1836 Lower Canada Grenville Township near the Ottawa River Quebec side?
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:49 am

Donald, this is incredible information!

I'm beginning to think that my great-great grandfather Archibald was perhaps slightly confused about his age. Here's how his age is listed in the various documents I've seen:

In the 1871 census, 35 yrs born about 1836
In the 1881 census, 49 yrs born about 1832
In the 1891 census, 60 yrs born about 1831
In the 1901 census, 65 yrs born about 1835 (written in the column for 'month and date of birth' is written 'Not known')
His death record listed him as 76 yrs old on 1 Apr 1907, which would indicate he was born in 1831

You also mentioned he was listed as 28 in 1861, which would put him born about 1833.... I'm really leaning toward him not remembering exactly when he was born.

As you mention, the only Archibald Livingston that matches the birth years 1830-1836 is the son of Alexander and Catherine, listed as 15 in the 1851 census, therefore born about 1836. Using this birth year I was able to find the microfilm image of the baptismal record for this Archibald Livingston from St-Philippe-d`Argenteuil (Church of Scotland): Born 1 Apr 1836 baptized at Grenville 3 Aug 1836. It confirms his parents as Alexander and Catherine. Still not certain this is my great-great grandfather, but I've been unable to find any additional information for an Archibald Livingston in any Quebec census record past 1851.

As an interesting note about the eldest daughter of Alexander and Catherine of Grenville, Quebec: Her name is listed as Flory Livingston on her baptismal record (I've seen the image, it is quite clear), yet the 1851 census lists her name as Christy. Not sure why this would be - only mention it because I thought it odd.

My great-great grandfather Archibald was Presbyterian - as listed in the census of 1881 and 1891. His religion is listed as 'Free Church' in 1901.

I've been unable to find a marriage record for Archibald and Susannah and would really like to see it on the off chance it listed parents for Archibald. When you mention trying to look for them in the Innisfil, Simcoe County Presbyterian church records, is this something available online? Is there somewhere I can call to go take a look myself? I'm willing to travel, etc to make this happen.

I've seen the death record for Archibald and have been to the grave recently. Both indicate that he died 1 Apr 1907 aged 76 years.

In all the searching I did I was unable to find any record for Archibald and Susannah in the 1861 census. Do you mind my asking what search engine source(s) you used for this? Have you seen the actual image of the page, or just the transcription? I'm wondering how Thomas' last name is spelled - I've seen Susannah's name spelled a couple of different ways: Doid (on her gravestone), Doide (her father is listed as Thomas Doide on her death record - father's birthplace - Scotland). I've also seen it as Doig but cannot recall where at the moment.

In searching for Susannah's father, I found a Thomas Doig who was a loyalist soldier in the 78th foot regiment - discharged from service 1819. He was on a list of returns from commuted pensioners residing in the province of upper Canada. Not sure if this is her father or not - just found it interesting.

With regard to 1901 census for Lobo Township, Middlesex County, Ontario: As you mentioned, Susannah is shown as living with her son Thomas on page 3 (lines 43 and 44) while Archibald (Archie in the census) is shown as living with his son Archi N on page 1 (lines 41 and 42). Very curious...

Once again Donald, thank-you for the wealth of information you've been able to find regarding my Livingston(e) line!
david.livingstone
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:19 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:35 pm

Hi David,

Glad that I could be of assistance. The information from 1861 I gave you is indeed from the original 1861 census documents. I actually located the Innisfil Township Census information from the 1861 Canada West Census Simcoe County at the Ontario Archives which has the original census available for viewing on Microfilm.
Innisfil Township District 1 Page 18 Reel C1072
Thomas Doig age 71 Farmer Free Church, log home( see also 1861 Agricultural census info- Thomas Doig Con. 7 Lot 19 100 acre Innifil Township)
Archibald Livingston age 28 laborer (Church of England)
Susan Livingston age 21 (Free Church)
Thomas Livingston age 4 (Free Church)
Alexander Livingston age 2 (Free Church)
The last name was spelled Doig in the 1861 Census and accompanying Agricultural census for Innifil Township on the original document and on my notes I took I clearly have Doig rather than Doid which I too have also seen it written as.
Alexander is not listed in subsequent census records so I assume he died as an infant. Now the eldest son Thomas is obviously named after Susan's father probably in honor of Thomas Doid who is providing a roof over the couples head in his log home. I think it a good guess that the second child and second son was then named after Archibald's father which i suspect was an Alexander Livingston. Note also that in one record I noticed that a later son Joseph was referred to a Joseph Alexander possibly in reference to Archibald's father being named Alexander. Again just speculation on my part. And we have of course this census info and birth info from Grenville Township, Quebec which indicates that an Archibald Livingston born in 1836 was the son an Alexander Livington. While clearly we do see a tendency to state that Archibald was born in the year 1831 there are almost equal amounts of information that suggest he is born closer to 1835/1836. So while absoulute proof is eluding us we do have fortunately a few clues to suggest we may be on the right track. Pity the 1901 Census did not give the full date. That was one of the first places I looked for him as I hoped to get a birth date and you found a birth record which I suspect may infact be his. That would have confirmed it sure. Damn. All the rest of the family in 1901 have a full birth date. To be that close is disappointing but at least the 1901 Census does once again suggest that Archibald was about 65 in March 1901 when the census was taken could very likely be the Archibald Livingston born April 1836 in Quebec. This is in my view too much of a coincidence. I think the census taker took down the information that Archibald was almost 65 as he was not given for some reason or failed the record the exact birth date. And infact if it is the same Archibald born in Grenville Quebec in April of 1836 he is was just a bit short of age 65 given that the census of Lobo Township, Middlesex County, Ontario took place in March of 1901 according to the Census.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:14 am

Hi David,
Think I found something. Archibald Livingston b. 1836 of Grenville Township,Argenteuil County, Quebec is missing in the 1861 Que. Census as you can see below. Did he go to Ontario to Innisfil Twp. Simcoe County sometime between 1851 and 1855 I think so.
Check out the 1861 Quebec Census Grenville,Argenteuil County pg.8 C1260-C1261
Alexander Livingston b. abt. 1811 Church of Scotland Farmer married
Catharine Livingston b. abt.1821 married
Margaret Livingston b.abt.1842
Donald Livingston b.abt.1843
Catharine Livingston b. abt. 1844
Mary Livingston b.abt. 1845
Jane Livingston b. abt. 1847
John Livingston b.abt. 1848
Ann Livingston b. abt. 1849 ?
Isabellah Livingston b. abt. 1853
Catharine Livingston b. abt. 1814 pg.9 Widow of Farmer Hugh Livingston b.abt. 1815 Scotland Farmer


Now note that one son is missing by 1861 from the family of Alexander and Catharine Livingston of Grenville, Argenteuil and by the strangest of coincidences that would the eldest son Archibald. What are the odds of this?He shows up no where else in the Quebec Census at this time and therefore I conclude that there is every possibility that it is this Archibaldfrom Grenville,Argenteuil that appears in the 1861 Census Innisfil Township, Simcoe County as Archibald Livingston of Lower Canada (Quebec) residing with his wife Susan and father in law Thomas Doig.

Compare the above census info with that of the 1851/1852 Census for Grenville Township, Argenteuil County,Lower Canada
Some slight variations but obviously the same family
Alexander Livingston age 48. b. Scotland Farmer
Catharine age 30 b. Scotland
Christy age 16 b. Lower Canada (QUebec)
Archibald age 15 b. Lower Canada
Margaret age 14 b. Lower Canada
Catharine age 13 b. Lower Canada
mary age 13 b. Lower Canada
Donald age 11 b. Lower Canada
Jane age 8 b. Lower Canada
John age 6 b. Lower Canada
Agnes age 5 b.Lower Canada
Euphemia age 2 b.Lower Canada

I wonder if ALexander and Catharine's marriage record is included in the St. Philippe de Argenteuil presbyterian church records that you were talking about. If Archibald's birth and baptismal record is there in that collection then perhaps the birth/baptismal records for the other children are there and perhaps the parents marriage record from the early 1830's or thereabouts.
regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:12 am

Donald, wanted to follow-up with some additional things I've discovered.

After having looked through the census records for the family of Alexander and Catherine Livingston, I am left with no doubt that the members of this family were thoroughly confused about their ages. Archibald was not the only member of this family giving inconsistent ages/dates. In my view this strengthens the case for Archibald being tied to this family, and being born on 03-Aug-1836 per some of his census records and the baptismal record I found.

Regarding the children: I've found original baptismal records for the ones in the list below. Having this information allows us to be reasonably confident of their actual ages, further highlighting the inconsistencies throughout the census records.

Flory, born 04-May-1835, baptized 06-May-1835
Christy, born 07-Feb-1834, baptized 02-Apr-1834
Archbald, b 01-Apr-1836, baptized 03-Aug-1836
Catherine, b 01-Jul-1939, baptized 04-Mar-1840
Mary, b 15-Jan-1841, baptized 27-Mar-1844
Donald, b 15-Apr-1842, baptized 27-Mar-1844
Jane, b 06-Jan-1844, baptized 27-Mar-1844

I realize I'm repeating a bit of what you posted earlier, but I've found additional census records for this family so I wanted to summarize them all in one place:

1851 Census of Canada East (Quebec) in Deux Montagnes County, Grenville
Alexander Livingston, Farmer, born in Scotland, Presbyterian, 48
Catherine Livingston, born in Scotland, Presbyterian, 30
Christy, 16
Archbald, Labourer, 15
Margaret, 14
Catherine, 13
Mary, 12
Donald, 11
Jane, 8
John, 6
Agnes, 5
Euphemia, 2

1861 Census of Canada, Canada East, Argenteuil (Roll: C-1260-1261; Page: 8)
Alexander Livingston, Farmer, born Scotland, Church of Scotland, 50
Catherine Livingston, 40
Margaret, 19
Donald, Laborer, 18
Catherine, 17
Mary, 16
Jane, 14
John, 13
Anne, 12
Isabellah, 8

1871 Census of canada, Quebec, Argenteuil, Grenville (Roll: C-10029; Page: 39; Family No: 114)
Alexander Livingston, 75, born Scotland, Church of Scotland, Farmer
Catherine Livingston, 47
Catherine, 20
Margaret, 18, Servant
John, 17, Farmer
Mary, 16, Servant
Jane, 14, Servant
Anne, 13
Isabella, 12

1881 Census of Canada, Quebec, Argenteuil, Grenville (roll C_13224, Page: 54, Family No: 238)
Alexander Livingston, 75, born Scotland, Presbyterian, Farmer
Catherine Livingston, 48
Margaret, 31
John, 26, Farmer
Mary, 23, Servant
Jane, 22, Servant
Annie, 20, Servant
Isabella, 18, Servant

1891 Census of Canada, Quebec, Argenteuil, Grenville (roll T-6384, Family No: 121)
John Livingston, 40, Presbyterian (transcribed as Free Church?), Farmer
Mary, 38, sister
Jane, 36, sister

1901 Census of Canada, Quebec, Argenteuil, Grenville (Page 17, Family No: 142)
John Livingston, single, born 2 Oct 1865, 35
Mary, sister, single, born 1 Jul 1844, 36
Annie, sister, single, born 2 Oct 1865, 35
Archibald Cameron, nephew, single, born 24 Dec 1888, 12, immigrated from US u in 1900

1911 Census of Canada, Quebec, Argenteuil, Sub-District 11 - Grenville (Page 12, Family No: 109)
John Livingstone, single, born Jan 1870, 41, Presbyterian, Farmer
Jane Hall, sister, widow, born Jan 1856, 55

I need to correct an earlier statement I made regarding Flory and Christy possibly being the same child - the eldest daughter. I was incorrect. In searching further through the records, I found the baptismal record for Christy. It would seem that Flory died sometime before the census of 1851, but I've not yet come across a record of this.

I've also been unable to find the marriage record for Alexander and Catherine. Were they possibly married in Scotland? I currently don't have access to any of those records so I'm unable to go any further there. The church records that I have access to have 'missing' years, so it's possible they were married in Canada and I just don't have access to the record.

In the 1851 census, Catherine is listed as 30 at her next birthday, putting her birth year around 1821. Their first child, Christy was born 7 Feb 1834 which would mean that Catherine was only 13 or possibly 14???? Is it possible the census taker wrote the wrong information for her age or is this correct and they just started VERY early?? Or is this yet another example of them not really knowing how old they are?

I found the agricultural census for Alexander Livingston in 1851 - if you are interested in particulars let me know.

I found the death record for Alexander Livingston (religion listed as Church of England) and it reads:
"Alexander Livingstone of the Township of Grenville, farmer died on the twenty second of February eighteen hundred and eighty-four aged about eighty one years, and was buried on the twenty fifth of February of the same year in Grenville, in the presence of the undersigned witness and friends who sign as follows:
Allan McDonald
Alexander Ganuson (not sure of last name - hard to read)
John Livingston

Allan McDonald must be a relative of Catherine - her maiden name was McDonald (per all the baptismal records I've seen). John Livingston is likely Archibald's son.

And now for a random musing:
I've been asking myself - how did Archibald go from Quebec to working for Thomas Doig in Simcoe County Ontario? That seems like a very long journey to undertake back then just to find work. While digging through the census records I came across an Alexander Doig born 15-Apr-1838 to a Paul Doig and Mary Jane Smith in Quebec - same church records where Archibald's birth is recorded. In this same book the birth of 4 children to an Andrew Boa and Amelia Doig - Agnes b29-Nov-1831, William b4-Jan-1834, James b20-Nov-1836, and Archibald b18-Apr-1838. I'm wondering if these Doig's are related to Thomas Doig in Simcoe County Ontario? If a link is shown perhaps Archibald travelled there because he'd heard from the Doig's of a need for a farm hand. Again, a random musing on my part but perhaps an interesting investigation for me to undertake at some point in the future.
david.livingstone
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:19 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Kyle MacLea » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:43 pm

david.livingstone wrote:After having looked through the census records for the family of Alexander and Catherine Livingston, I am left with no doubt that the members of this family were thoroughly confused about their ages.


Just remember, David, that it wasn't only the person in question giving this information. Often, people were not home when the census taker came, and so neighbors/friends/children/etc. might have provided that information. So, while the census is often in the right DECADE in terms of age, it is otherwise not always accurate in age or many other details. But various censuses taken together often give you a good composite look at a likely age....

Sounds like you guys are hot on the trail of your ancestors. Good luck! (And thanks, Donald!)

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
User avatar
Kyle MacLea
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:54 am
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:11 pm

Very good point Kyle - I'd not even considered that, but does make perfect sense.
david.livingstone
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:19 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:55 pm

Hi David,

As Kyle states old census records for whatever the reason often recorded inaccurate ages for those censused. I have found this to be the case with my family and others that I have researched over the years. And quite frequently one comes across one census which gives a correct age and the subsequent census records which do not making the calculation of an approximate birth date very difficult. This is situation I think with your ancestor Archibald Livingston. Still you are fortunate that there is enough info out there on your Archibald to pretty much point us in right direction regarding his correct birth date. The 1871 Census for Innisfil Twp. SImcoe County SOuth clearly records him as being born in 1836. Although his 1907 death record indicates he was born abt 1831, but his last census of 1901 when he living in Lobo Township, Middlesex County, ONtario clearly indicates that he is around 65 years of age which suggests he was born abt.1835/36. And when you consider the birth record of 1836 from Lower Canada, Quebec you located and the 1851/1852 Lower Canada/QUebec Census record which records his age as 15 in 1851/1852 it seems pretty clear we have almost certainly the same Archibald Livingston of Lower Canada/Quebec who settled in Ontario sometime between 1851 and 1855 I would presume.

Simcoe County, Ontario was full of Western Argyllshire highland Scots many of them arrived there in the 1830's from the Island of Islay. Almost all of the Simcoe County Livingstons originated from the Isle of Islay from Bowmore and Kilmeny Parishes. YOu may have noticed I posted info on the original Livingston pioneers that settled in Nottawasaga,Mendonte and Vespra Townships in SImcoe County on the forum site in recent months. We are sometimes contacted by a Livingston family with roots to the Nottawasaga Livingstons.

There does not seem to be any obvious connections in the family records between your family and the Nottawasaga,Mendonte and Vespra Township Livingstons of SImcoe County Ontario we have researched however there could be more distant ancestral connections we are not aware of. I am at this point not certain where Western Argyll you family came from but I am reasonbly certain they probably came from highland Western Argyll.

Some of these families we have researched that settled in Simcoe County were connected to Alexander Livingstons but I could not match up your Alexander Livingston to any of the Islay Livingstons with the name ALexander connected to the Nottawasaga and Mendonte Livingstons which are actually two different Livingstons families from two different parishes on the Isle of Islay, (Bowmore) Kilarrow and Kilmeny. Almost all of these Livingstons arrived firstly by boat to QUebec City which was a port for many of the highlanders before they made their way to Upper Canada/ Canada West/Ontario in the 1800's. At least one other Islay family Donald Livingston and Mary Brown settled firstly in Quebec in the 1830's and then later headed for Simcoe County settling in Vespra Township I think it was. They lived near Huntingdon, Quebec, in the County of Beauharnois near to where my great-great-great grandfather Livingston's son Donald Livingston a QUebec Surveyor in Beauharnois resided for many years. This was however quite a ways a way in QUebec from where your Alexander and Archibald resided.
ALexander was not an uncommon name amongst the highland Livingstones and occurred in the families of Islay Livingstons and of course elsewhere in parishes in Western Argyll.

Our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society a few years ago started a Genealogical DNA project with the purpose to help identify the various Livingston ancestral family groups and match Livingstons with related Livingston families worldwide. More than 100 Livingstons I am told are participating in this project and this kind of test might help to identify your Livingston family with other Livingstons in the project and might better determine Archibald and Alexanders ancestral origins in Scotland if you are interested. Our own Clan Chief Baron Niall Livingstone is a participant in this project as is a descendant of Dr. David Livingstone's brother. If this is of interest to you Kyle Maclea our North American Clan Commissioner and one of our Clan Maclea Livingstone DNA Project coordinators can provide you with more information.

No I think it likely that Thomas Doig and family including his daughter Susan or Susanna Doig were already in Simcoe County and likely Innisfil township there some years prior to Archibalds arrival. Thomas Doig's land records may telll you when he first established himself in Innisfil Township at his farm at Concession 7 Lot 19.Very unlikely then that the Susanna was living in Scotland in 1855 and neither was Archie. Yes I think I saw somewhere that this Doig family has a QUebec connection in a family tree I was looking at but it did not tell me much to be helpful to your research of Archibald. It could be that he knew the Doig family or is related to some other Scottish family that settled in Simcoe County in the 1850's or before. I have not been able to link him to those Livingston families that did settle elsewhere in Townships in SImcoe County but who really knows if they are somehow related closely or more distantly at this point.

THere were infact several Livingston families that settled in parishes in Lower Canada (later known as the province of Quebec in Canada). In future postings I hope to highlight some of them. You might be interested if you dont know already that there were two other Livingston families likely of highland Western Argyllshire County origin living and farming in Grenville Township,Lower Canada at the time of the 1851/1852 Census. In addition to Alexander and Catharine Livingston and family there was a Hugh Livingston born abt.1815 in Scotland and his wife Catharine born abt.1814 and a Margaret Livingston born abt. 1814 living with them perhaps a sister. Also there is an Angus Livingston b. abt. 1796 apparently a widower farmer with three children recorded in this census: Mary age 21, Charles age 20 and Flora age 19. Alexander and Hugh are Presbyterians while Angus and his family are Scottish Episcopalians. By 1861 Hugh is apparently deceased and his wife Catharine a widower possibly living in close proximity to Alexander and Catharine. Dont know if these Grenville Township Livingstons are related. Just thought I mention the other two Livingston families that were there circa 1851.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Kyle MacLea » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:59 pm

If you need any info about the DNA project, just let me know, David!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
User avatar
Kyle MacLea
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:54 am
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Next

Return to Ancestral Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron