Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ontario

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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:02 pm

Hi David,

Nice work finding Alexander's death record in Quebec. Interesting that he is listed at the time of his death as Church of England or Episcopalian because in the 1861 Census for Innisfil Township, SImcoe County we have Thomas Doig age 71 farmer Presbyterian, Susan Doig age 21 Presbyterian children Alexander and Thomas Livingston Presbyterian and laborer Archibald Livingston b.Lower Canada or Quebec age 28 Church of England. So there you go another likely link to Alexander Livingston of Grenville Township. And only a small number of highland Livingstons in the 1800's in Ontario actually were members of the CHurch of england, the vast majority attended the Presbyterian Church. So this info stands out to us and is probably helpful in further linking the Innisfil Archibald to ALexander Livingston of Grenville Township, QUebec.It seems that Archibald and Catharine's children attended the Free Church and that Catharine a member of that church in Innisfil apparently and Archibald were both members of the Free CHurch while in Innisfil Township Simcoe County South and in later years in Lobo Township,MIddlesex County. But I did notice with curiosity last week that in the early 1861 census in Innisfil that your ancestor Archibald states he was of the Church of England which alludes to perhaps to an earlier connection to the CHurch of England. Perhaps he attended both from time to time. Clearly in Ontario he stated he early on he was Church of England but subsequently was attending the Presbyterian Free Church with his wife and family in Innisfil Township. Wasnt Archibald baptised in a Presbyterian CHurch in 1836 in QUebec?

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:43 am

The first page of the book in which Archibald's baptism is recorded says:

This book containing fifty nine folio pages was this day presented by the Reverend William Mair Minister of Grenville and Chatham in connection with the Church of Scotland to the undersigned ***** (can't read the word) *** the Justices of his Majesty's board of Kings Bench for the District of Montreal to the end that act thereof may be now granted him and the said book hereafter kept by him the said William Mair as a register of Baptisms Marriages and Burials by him to be performed as officiating Minister of the above named Townships during the year One Thousand and Eight Hundred and Thirty Six at Montreal this fourth of January 1836 by me, George Pyke J.K.B
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:00 pm

I've come across a piece of information today that, at the moment, is causing me to wonder if this Archibald Livingston in Grenville is really my great-great-grandfather after all... There's a book entitled "History of the Counties of Argenteuil, Que., and Prescott, Ont., from the Earliest Settlement to the Present" by Cyrus Thomas, published 1896. On page 395 there's a paragraph that reads:

Arch1bald Livingstone, from the Isle of Mull, Argyleshire, Scotland, was a member of the Royal Staff Corps. After his discharge he took up 300 acres of land, which is now owned and occupied by Archibald Steele. He lived and died at this place, his last days being spent with his son Alexander; he had three sons and two daughters.

Alexander, his second son, married Catherine McDonald, and took up 356 acres near the homestead, which is now the home of his own son, John Livingstone. He cleared about 15 acres of this, and died 23rd February, 1890; Mrs. Livingstone died 4th May, 1884. They had twelve children ; eleven—three sons and eight daughters, grew up ; one of the former and four of the latter are married. Archibald, the eldest son, married, lives in Wyoming; Catherine, one daughter, married to Charles Webster, lives in Ottawa; Jane, married to William S. Hall, lives in Cumberland, Ont.; Flora, married to Frederick Rodgers, lives in Montreal; Isabella, the youngest, whose husband, Archibald Cameron, died recently, now lives on the homestead with her brother. Annie lives in New York ; Maggie in Hawkesbury, Ont.; and Mary with her brother on the homestead, all forming a respected Christian family.

(link: http://books.google.com/books?id=kRQTAA ... &q&f=false)

Valuable information either way...
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Hi David,

That is interesting. Fortunately, I checked the comprehensive census data base at familysearch.org which includes the U.S Census records from 1870 to 1930 and there were virtually no Archibald Livingstones born in Canada or Quebec living in the State of Wyoming. No Livingstons that settled in Wyoming in the 1800's that I can tell from the census records came from Canada. There was one Archibald Livingston born 1880 to John Livingston b.1848 and Marion Kennedy both of Scotland who imigrated to the States in 1870 and settled in the State of Wyoming but that its for Archibald Livingstons in Wyoming for the time period we are looking. Later this family went to Idaho. As far as other States there was one Archie Livingston born aug 1834 in Canada in the 1900 California Census but parents both born in Canada not Scotland. Also one Archie Livingston born in NOva Scotia about 1832 residing in Massachusetts. That about it for Archie Livingstons born in the 1830's from Canada living in the United States from the time period we are looking. So the Census data seems to indicate that history book is wrong at least in regards to the Quebec Archibald Livingston. The entire North American Census check at familysearch.org agrees with our theory and indicates that the only Archibald Livingston from Quebec is the Archibald Livingston that lived at Grenville Township QUebec in the 1851 QUebec Census and also lists Archibald Livingston of Quebec residing in Innisfil Township Simcoe South, Ontario and the later census information when he is at Lobo Township,Middlesex County, ONtario. So the vast family history resources of the L.D.S and their familysearch.org site agrees with our research. There is virtually no U.S census info from the 1870-1930 period for the State of Wyoming or any where else in the United States showing the QUebec Archibald Livingstone born between 1831 and 1836. I checked for all States just to be sure. I dont know how the author of that old book came up with Wyoming. No indication in the census of the Grenville Township, Quebec Archibald born in the 1830's having settled there at all or anywhere else in the period from 1870 to 1930 in the United States. There is a Wyoming, Ontario located in Plympton Township, Lambton County but Archibald from Quebec does not show up there in the census records that I have seen.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:29 am

Hi David,

One other thing to ponder. Although the Doig family tree I have seen does not directly connect yourThomas Doig born in the 1790's according to the 1861 Ontario Census to a Robert Doig 1797-1858 of Kilmadock, Perth Scotland who resided in La Chute, Argenteuil Quebec they do mention both of them. The question then in my mind is this yet another coincidence I have stumbled upon or is it possible that this Robert Doig who settled in Argenteiul Quebec had a relative Thomas Doig who also lived briefly in Argenteiul QUebec and unknown to us the Doigs being in Argentieul prior to locating in SImcoe County,ONtario is the key to understanding how your ancestor Archibald Livingston connected to the family. There seems to have been more than one Doig family from Kilmadock,Perth Scotland that settled in Quebec.
Robert Doig b.March 7 1797 Frew, Kilmadock Perthshire, Scotland died Sept 6,1858 LaChute,Argenteiul QUebec married Isabella Doig APril 7, 1823 Montreal Quebec. Isabella was a Doig apparently. What are the odds that there were Doigs in Argenteiul QUebec. Unfortunately and perhaps not surprisingly the family tree had no info on Thomas being in Quebec probably because those records if they exist at all are not easily located. But because we know of an Archibald Livingstone who was born in Argenteiul that again by the strangest coincidence is from this Argenteiul it makes one wonder if Argenteuil connection is the missing piece in this puzzle to your family. As for Wyoming that just makes no sense at least from the standpoint of the available census records that are out there.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:02 am

Hi David,

If by some miracle I turn out to right then your ancestor Archibald Livingston's grandfather Archibald Livingston of the Royal Staff Corps is likely connected to the Royal Staff Corps which were formed in the early 1800's during the Napoleonic Wars. The Royal Staff Corps were involved with the defence of South eastern England in the 1804 1805 period to prevent invasion by the French. They also I think were later involved in the Peninsula War. By the 1820's I think they were in British North America in Lower Canada. What is interesting is that the ROyal Staff corps built the Lachine Canal and Grenville Canal. They also had some involvement I think in the construction of St. Mathews Anglican Church in Grenville in 1832. Perhaps Archibald's grandfather was still in the Royal Staff Corps at this time in Grenville,Argenteiul Quebec. I wonder if the Doig's had any involvement with the Royal Staff Corps. I found out there were definitely Scots serving in the Royal Staff Corps. It not all clear to me yet but I think the Royal Staff Corps served as army engineers. Two companies of the Royal Staff Corps were sent under the command of a Henry Du Vernet in 1819 with the purpose of constructing canal along the Ottawa River one of which was the Grenville Canal. I suspect from what you found out that Archibald's grandfather was one of them that came out in 1819. There appears to be some detailed info out there on this Henry DuVernet. Makes sense that Archibald the eldest son was named after his grandfather. The 1851/1852 Census indicates that most of the SCottish Doig's at this time in Canada resided in was is today Lachute, Argenteiul,Quebec. Surely this cant be a coincidence. Lachute is on a tributary of the Ottawa River and Scots that settled in communities along the Ottawa River may be connected.

It does not surprise me that Archibald Livingston's roots are in Mull, Argyllshire, Scotland. There were quite a few Mull Livingstones that ended up in Canada in the 1800's we have discovered over the last few years. It is interesting that you arrived at forum with your QUebec Livingston connection as I had been recently researching my Livingston ancestors eldest son Donald Livingston b.abt.1796/1797 from his first marriage who had settled in Quebec around 1817 after residing for a few years at Lord Selkirks Red River Settlement with his father Miles Livingston, my ancestor who a few years earlier had left the Selkirk Settlement and settled in Upper Canada (Ontario). Donald spent a few year apparently in Montreal and then by the 1820's was a land surveyor living in Beauharnois,Quebec.

Regarding Archibald's grandfather Archibald Livingston being born in Mull the only Archibald Livingston that would possibly fit is an Archibald Levingston of Sunipol, Kilninian Parish, Mull baptised December 30 1779 son of John Levingston and Catharine Cameron. Dont know for certain. Not clear whether Archibald's father Alexander was born around 1804 or 1811 in Scotland. Have to look at the Quebec census record again and look at all the entries for Archibalds father Alexander.

regards,

Donald

regards,

Donald
















regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby david.livingstone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:26 pm

Donald, some updates:

While building up my family tree on ancestry.ca I noticed someone else was related to Catherine McDonald (Livingston) through Catherine's older brother, Allen. I've been in contact with her and she provided what she knew of Catherine McDonald, her siblings, parents, etc.

Here's some additional information on Alexander Livingston:

MARRIAGE:
Film #1617 - Archives Nationales du Quebec, 1945 Rue Mullins, Montreal, Quebec, Canada N3K 1N9
9 Apr 1833
Alexander Livingston, Grenville to Catherine McDonald, Grenville
Anglican Church of England, Grenville
Witnesses - Angus Livingston, Reuben Cook
No parents listed.

CENSUS:
Alexander Livingston listed in 1842 census - Grenville, Argenteuil County, Quebec, Canada Film #C728

DEED:
Quebec land grant. Argenteuil County, Township of Grenville N 1/2 of Lot 9 Range 7, 100 acres, date of letter-patent 3 Sept 1835 sales book Q page 75

As for Catherine McDonald (Livingston):
She had an older brother Allen McDonald born 2 Jul 1814, Kilfinichen, Isle of Mull, Argyll County, Scotland (IGI Batch 7505624 sheet 4). Parents listed as Donald McDonald and Ann McDonald.
There is no citation for Catherine's birth but she is shown as being born in 1821 (likely based on the same census records we've already discussed).

Is it really possible that Catherine was married at the age of 12 or possibly 13 in 1833? The 1851 census lists Catherine's age as 30, and her first child was born 7 Feb 1834 - she would be 13 or 14. Have you run across this in your research? I would imagine it's also possible that Catherine's birth year is listed as incorrect and perhaps she was a little older.

I'd really like to find the marriage record for Archibald and Susanna Doig, with the hope that perhaps Archibald's parents are listed and perhaps even Susanna's. It's a long shot, but would serve to link Archibald to this Alexander and Catherine Livingston family in Quebec. Do you have any suggestions as to where I'd begin this search? I'm willing to travel if need be to go and look through records, etc but I'm new to all this research and don't really know where to start.

Perhaps my participation in the DNA project would also help point us in the right direction? I'll contact Kyle and see what is involved, etc.
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:26 pm

Hi David,

Kyle Maclea can provide you with all of the info on the Clan's DNA project and test. I would reccomend the 67 marker test as it provides more genetic information than the 37 marker test, but you can always upgrade to 67 markers once youve done the initial test. The testing is done for the Clan project through FamilytreeDNA in the states which the Clan Society had found to be very reliable and professional. It all ends up in a lab in Texas and I think about several weeks later Familytreedna e-mails you with the announcement that your test results are complete and you go to their secure website and can access by password your test results and compare the information with the test results of other Livingstons and Mcleas who are part of the project. Anyways Kyle will be happy to provide with the details. I sponsored my Livingston cousin and found that there are number of Livingstons with roots in the Mull and neighbouring Movern area who share some very similar DNA characteristics and some are apparently closer and other more distantly related but all apparently descended from celtic gaels that arrived from some ancient Celtic kingdom in the North of Ireland a long long time ago and settled in is today the western part of the County of Argyllshire in highland Scotland. A number of the clans in this part of Scotland apparently originated from ancient Ireland.

You have done some superb work on this Quebec family. I could been wrong, but I really think your Archibald Livingston from Quebec is connected to this Argenteuil County, Quebec family that lived in Grenville along the Ottawa River. If i could prove that your ancestor Thomas Doig father in law of your ancestor Archibald Livingston b.1836was connected to this other Scottish Doig family that lived in Lachute/St.Jerusalem parish area along a tributary of the Ottawa River where 99 percent of them seem to be in Canada circa 1800's my life would be so much easier. (See http://www.doig.net/John1756.html to get a sense of the Doigs in general and there settlement in Argenteiul County,Quebec to get a sense how Thomas might possible fit into this Argenteiul scenario.) But in genealogy one hits a stumbling block or brick wall from time to time that impedes further progress. So close and yet so far it would seem. Still I think that Wyoming stuff is quite wrong regarding your Quebec ancestor. There were SCottish Livingstons and American Livingstons that went to Wyoming but no Canadian or QUebec Livingstons indicated at least in the census records. I am pretty certain of that from carefully checking the U.S. census records from 1870 to 1930. And no record of this Archibald settling in Wyoming, ONtario that I could see. It could be just a family error or mistake by the author of that book who may have taken notes on numerous families and just got confused. I have seen plenty of mistakes in these local history books trust me on that. Being published doesnt mean that it is a correct fact, but many people will assume it be so. We have checked this family out and have been fortunate in the availability of many of the old Quebec records pertaining to this family which is actually a stroke of luck particularly if this turns out to be your Livingston family . There is much you can learn about your interesting family history in Grenville Township if this is indeed your family which my gut feeling tells me it is. All the clues are there and I keep bumping into them.

I wonder if that marriage record for Archibald Livingston and Susan Doig survives? Many of the entry books kept by some Presbyterian ministers from the 1850's do not survive some do. If we assume they married in the Free Church a breakaway congregation from the earlier PResbyterian church of the 1840's then some local historians in the Innisfil Township, Simcoe County South area might be able to inform you on whether or not marriage records from the mid 1850's when we assume they wed survive. No the marriage entries prior to 1857 or 1858 I think it was do not list the name of the parents regretably and just very minimal in details. So it is very unlikely even if you do get lucky and find the marriage record for the mid 1850's wedding that it would name the parents. Too bad because if it was just a couple of years later say 1858 or 1859 or later I think they would definitely had been recorded. Still we should try and see if the congregation that Susan and Archibald and family attended has marriage records from that period which survived. Given that their eldest child was born in 1856 I think it was I am thinking they married in the 1853-1855 period in Innisfil Township or at least I assume. Could be somewhere else in Simcoe County but Innisfil seem most logical place to start in Simcoe County.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:09 am

Hi David,

I will try and see if I can figure out from Thomas Doig's land records when he arrived in Simcoe County and locate his possible birth record in Scotland. Another challenge. Looks like he arrived before the 1861 Census where I first located him with his son in law Archibald Livingston I just have to see when he acquired his farm at Con. 7 Lot 19 he is located on in the year 1861 according to the Innisfil Township, Simcoe County argricultural census. I could not unfortunately find Thomas Doig in the 1851 Census but there are many census records missing from this period.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Archibald Livingston of Lobo Township, Middlesex Cty.Ont

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:06 am

Hi David,
Unfortunately Susan Livingston's death record from 1823 apparently only lists her father Thomas being born in Scotland no location there and there no name for her mother which is indeed unfortunate as I could have made an good attempt to trace your Doig family in Scotland in greater detail. My first question of course is whether your Thomas Doig is related to the Doigs of Perth, Scotland that settled in the St. Jerusalem and Lachute Argenteiul Quebec area or from another Scottish Doig family. At least one Doig family researcher knew of and was trying to Susan Doig wife of Archibald Livingston and Thomas Doig to a branch of the Kilmadock,Perth County Doigs and stated that Thomas was born 1796 there though the 1861 Census for Innisfil Township, Simcoe County Ontario lists him as 71 years of age in 1861 so from that he might have born abt. 1790. Perhaps though that was a just a estimate by the census taker and he was actually older. My gut feeling is that he is connected to the Kilmadock Perth County SCotland Doigs but dont know if he is the Thomas Doig born in 1796 there.

regards,

Donald
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