Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mull

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Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Jim,

Hope you had lots of warm sunny weather in Florida. You sun deprived Scots deserve a bit of sunshine now and then. The Dominican Republic is also nice if you like mountains, miles of white sand beaches, turquoise waters and lots of the palm trees.

When you find something like Angus Livingston's death entry it is like panning for gold and sifting through the sands you come across a shiny gold nugget. In my time as a family history researcher every once in a while I get lucky and find some treasure trove of genealogy related information filled with some significant detail or details. It does happen from time to time, not very often but its great when it does happen. Makes all of this day to day effort seem worthwhile.

I think we all have had a lot of fun working on this. John I know has been working for quite some time on his Livingstone family history. I am not related to you or John but apparently our Maclea ancestors in Western Argyll shared an ancestor a few hundred years ago it would seem if I am interpreting the genealogy dna test results in any way correctly. Never the less I took a look at John and your Livingston ancestry information a while back and found it quite interesting. I was struck by how many different moves John's ancestors had made from his ancestor Angus Livingston's origins in Shiaba, Ross of Mull in Southern Mull. It was a bit of a challenge to follow them they moved around so much over the years.

This week I am working with two researchers on a Livingston family that settled in Canada in the early 1800's and going through some interesting old land records with them searching for clues and trying to help solve a family mystery. Never boring. Livingstons keep me busy.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,
Don't know if this is of any help, but I noticed I had sent you message regarding John Livingston who died in 1858 and the precise location of "Tiervaagain" from what I assume was one of the 19th Ordnance Survey maps of Kilmeny Parish, Islay. Wish I had recorded which map at the time as there are a great many ordnance survey maps. In any event it very close to the old Kilmeny Church cemetery and no doubt one of the Islay family historians you may be able to contact can provide you more insight on "Tiervaagain" or Tirvagan and the old Kilmeny Church Cemetery when you do a return trip to Islay.

Canadian Livingstone wrote:Hi John,

Yes Hugh's brother John Livingstone woolen and cotton weaver who died age 52 July sixth 1858 at Tirvagan, Kilmeny Parish, Islay. Parents: Angus Livingstone Chelsea Pensioner and Margaret McPhail deceased. He was buried in the Kilmeny Burial Ground according to his death record. His son James was the witness. An Ordinance Survey Map shows Tiervaagain as being nearby and a short distance south west of the old Kilmeny Church cemetery on the Island of Islay in the old parish of Kilmeny. Perhaps that is the cemetery where John is buried.

regards,

Donald
jmlivingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by jmlivingstone »

Another little bit of info,

Andrew Mitchell Livingstone b. 1881, d. 1959, born at Corn Exchange, Stirling - m – Margaret Miller, b. 1884, d. 1933, marriage abt. 1912.
Son; Andrew Mitchell Livingstone b. 1913, Coatbridge, Lanarkshire
Daughter; Marion Patterson Livingstone, b. 1915, d. 2000 Bristol, England.
Marion – m – Wm. Leonard Frederick Read b. 1909-d. 1993, at Brentford, Middlesex,

John
jmlivingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by jmlivingstone »

The first para below is more info for the family of Hugh Livingstone & Jean Shannon, the second is a request for further info on another section of the Livingstone family, who, as far as I know are not closely related to my side. As yet I have not had a chance to look into this further,

John

Hi John , thanks for the prompt reply . I’m not far away , Paisley as is my friend who’s descended from Hugh Livingstone via his daughter Margaret Livingstone/Mulheron 1844-1916 ( Margaret married Daniel Mulheron 1863).The last I have of Hugh is 1861 census in James Street ,Calton living with wife Jean , Margaret, sons Robert and Duncan .
Margarets family stayed in the Bridgeton area for over 100 years before branching out to Paisley . He’s listed on the 1863 marriage cert ( doesn’t say deceased lol ) for Margaret.


On a side note on my Tree I have a g/g/grandmother Catherine McLachlan 1836-1890 ( who married my g/g/grandfather David Gordon in 1856 whilst living in Water St Glasgow.
Her parents are listed as John McLachlan (deceased) and Agnes Livingstone . In 1851 census Catherine on SP site it says Argyll , Melford but printed on Ancestry , Kilninver , is living with her mother in Water Street with mother Anne aged 46 ( 1805 Island of Ling ) sister Anne aged 10 , William Livingstone, 44 (Kilninver 1807) and Katherine Livingstone his wife, 30 (Morvern ) .
On Catherines death cert in 1890 her father is listed as Duncan ( chemists labourer ) and Anne Livingston , possibly her brother was Duncan . I was wondering if you have come across these Livingstones ?
Again thanks John , Raymie
jmlivingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by jmlivingstone »

A little more info on family members,

John.

Margaret daughter of Hugh Livingstone & Jean Shannon, married Daniel Mulheron, 21 Oct 1863, Margaret died 01 Aug 1916 at Camlachie, Glasgow.

Family, all born Tradeston, Glasgow;

Mary b. 16 May 1864.

Denis b. 13 Sept. 1865.

Hugh b. 14 July 1867.

Charles b. 10 Dec. 1869.

Jane b. 03 Nov. 1871, d. abt. 1916.

Margaret b. 15 Oct. 1873.
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,
I wonder if Jean Shannon's family lived in Ireland before they lived in Scotland. Shannon sounds Irish.
I was going through some of the old research material and noticed on that final ledger page of the Chelsea Pension info from the 1840's that included Angus Livingstons death date of October 30 1847 and location of the town where he died Paisley, only a couple of former members of the Argyll Fencibles had their death date listed on that page and the town where that took place included on the ledger so it appears to have been a bit of luck that it was there.

regards,


Donald
jmlivingstone
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by jmlivingstone »

Hi Donald,

I had a look this morning at the name Shannon, it appears to have originated in Scotland as Shennan in probably Galloway, apparently, they were also landowners in the Kintyre area.

There are a few Gaelic possibilities for the Irish version of the name, also noticed the first Shannons to head for America/Canada from Ireland, were Scots/Irish protestants, the next wave were southern Irish RC's.

Still no wiser on where Jeans family were originally from,,

John.
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by jmlivingstone »

Although the people listed below are not Livingstones, Alexander & Janet are probably my 9 x g/grandparents on Agnes Edmiston side of the family, I do not have documentary proof, maybe someone, someday, will be able to confirm my theory. More research is required to prove these facts.

This side of the family appears to have links with the Netherlands,

John


Alexander Ellet was born in 1560 in Scotland. He had one son with Janet Mowbray on March 22, 1612. He died in 1592 in Scotland, at the age of 32.John Ellot was born on March 22, 1612, in Edinburgh, Scotland, the child of Janet. He had one son and one daughter between 1632 and 1633. He died in 1640 in Edinburgh, Scotland, at the age of 28.
Janet Mowbray was born in 1570 in Scotland. She had one son with Alexander Ellet on March 22, 1612. She died in Scotland
John Ellot was born on March 22, 1612, in Edinburgh, Scotland, the child of Janet. He had one son and one daughter between 1632 and 1633. He died in 1640 in Edinburgh, Scotland, at the age of 28..


Alexander Ellet b. 1560. – d. 1592 – m-. Janet Mowbray b. 1570 – d. ????.
Son John b. 22 Mar. 1612.
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,
This thought just came to me.
There was something like a 15 percent reduction in the population of Colonsay between 1841 and 1851. The potato crop failures while not having as big an impact as in Ireland on the people of Scotland in Western Argyll did have did some impact on tenant farmers already struggling with a challenging economic situation. With the potato crop failures begining in 1845/1846 by this point your Livingstons saw that it was time to move on either to the opportunities in the lowlands or to emigrate.James Livingston and Mary McMillan had gone to Canada in 1842 and it looks like by 1845 Angus Livingston joined his daughter and son Hugh and left for Paisley, Renfrewshire. If they did not leave voluntarily around 1845 they probably would have not too future have eventually been evicted from Uragaig when the land was cleared of tenants for grazing land for more profitable sheep farming.
Marriages in Colonsay pertaining to family of Angus Livingston at Uragaig
1840- Malcolm McMillan and Christy Livingston
1842 - James Livingston and Mary McMillan
1844 James McFayden and Catharine Livingston (not sure if this couple is connected to your ancestor Angus Livingston of Colonsay)


regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

Malcolm McMillan and Christy Livingston married 1840 Colonsay

James Livingston and Mary McMillan married April 15, 1842 Colonsay

James McFayden m. Catharine Livingston January 21, 1844 Colonsay

James Livingston and Mary McMillan went to Canada about 1842. THeir subsequent life in Canada is pretty well documented via the census records there and the family accounts by their descendant there. I wonder what happened however to Malcolm McMillan and wife Christy and family and James Mc Fayden and Catharine Livingston and their family. Do you know anything about the Catherine Livingston that married James McFayden? Was this Catherine Livingston a daughter of your ancestor Old Angus of Colonsay formerly of Ross of Mull, Mull or of another Livingston family? Are these McMmillans and McFaydens in the later Scottish records I wonder? I have been finding some great general info on what the situation was like on Colonsay in the 1840's and many of the tenants left in the 1840's particularly with the 1846 Potato famine which affected West Argyll as well as Ireland. The economic situation was such that it motivated tenants from Colonsay to either leave Scotland or migrate to the lowlands in search of work. Not surprising then to find that ANgus Livingston had gone to Paisley, Renfrewshire with a son and daughter sometime between 1841 and 1846.

Took a quick look at the records and there is a Malcolm and Christina McMillan that settled in Canada but this Christina was not a Livingston. So Malcolm McMillan and James Mcfayden and their Livingston wives seems to have eluded attempts to locate them after the 1840's residing in Colonsay, Arygll. Just a few of many who left Colonsay and Argyll in the 1840's reluctantly and with a heavy heart but with hope perhaps of a better life for their families in the future. In Scotland today they are just forgotten names in the pages of old musty parish books but it is my belief that these Argyll Livingstons, our highland Livingston diaspora should be remembered. This forum is one way we can do that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/ci ... s_01.shtml

regards,

Donald
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