Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mull

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

Sorry I was away on holidays for a week and just got back today. Yes I am pretty sure that Mrs Edward Logan (Jean/Jane Livingston) and brother Hugh Livingston were residing in Paisley, Renfrewshire as was apparently their father Angus Livingston at the time of his death. I will get back to you tomorrow regarding the Chelsea Pension Record where I found what seems to be an entry for Angus Livingston's pension information recording his death date and where in Scotland where he died. I was surprised as no doubt you are by this accidental discovery of this information.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

I've always been of the opinion, if Angus' death was ever traced, it would be by luck, & it was, but who cares how it was found, in the end it was found, excellent work.
I've had a quick look in Scotlands People, so far I have found no further info on Angus' death records.

I've also got Jane & her brother Hugh at Croft St., Paisley at the date of her marriage, this is in the 1848-49 Register of Proclamations & Marriages, was she staying with her brother for the period when the proclamation was read, (banns I believe is the term normally used in Scotland), her future husband Jacob, was resident at Castle St., Paisley at this time.

Croft St. still exists, although, the only old building I spotted there, was the Wallneuk North Church, the rest has been redeveloped.

John.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John, Regarding the 1847 pension info,check your e-mail messages today. Sent two just sent a short time ago. Let me know if you got them. Its is 8:39 in the morning here. Several hours difference where you are. Jim a descendant of Mr Logan and his wife Jean/Jane Livingston of Paisley indicated that he was both Jacob and Edward in the records possibly because his name was Edward Jacob Logan. I noticed he is Edward Logan in the census info but I also noticed Jacob Logan in one record when I was searching. Definitely the same person I am certain who was married to Jane/Jean Livingston. Jim must be a cousin of yours then.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

I wanted to let you know that I did read your earlier posting regarding the lack of interest and participation in the Forum and I also find it somewhat discouraging at times, but on a positive note if you do a lengthy search of all of the postings over the years you will find appreciative messages from many of the people we have helped over the years with their Livingstone/Livingston research. I find it all a very interesting learning experience finding out what became of some of the 18th and 19th century Livingston families that lived in Scotland and where their descendants settled. I do however hope to discuss your concerns with other members of the Clan Society sometime soon. Would you consider joining the Clan Maclea Livingstone Clan Society if you have not already? You would be very welcome.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

John is a Life Member if I recall correctly. I find this discouraging too, sometimes. And I admit to not having done as much as possible to expand our recruiting, something that probably needs doing.

But thank you both so much for keeping up the 'fight'!

Kyle

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,
Thanks for that. Thats great news. As you may recall from the earlier postings, John's great-great-great? grandfather, Angus Livingston of Ross of Mull, Argyll was a veteran of Napoleonic Wars. From surviving Pension records we have been able get a pretty good understanding of his brief military history. He served as a private in the Rifle Brigade of the Argyll Fencibles in Ireland defending Ireland from possible attacks by Napoleon's forces in the early part of British efforts against Napoleon in the early part of that conflict with France. Angus Livingston's pension record included as a small note in a record ledger page from the period of 1846 to 1856 it is recorded that pensioner Angus Livingston died in Paisley (Renfrewshire) 30/10 1847. This makes sense as two of his children he was living with in Argyll in 1841 in the 1841 Scottish census, his son Hugh Livingston and a daughter Mrs Edward (Jacob) Logan (Jean/Jane Livingston) were by 1846 if not a little earlier residing in Paisley, Renfrewshire.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
Map quest seems to indicate there is a 5 Cross Street Paisley where Hugh Levingston was living at the time of the 1851 Census a little west of the present day University of the West of Scotland. There is also a North Croft Street about 2.50 km north east of 5 Cross Street. It would be about 4 minute drive from 5 Cross Street. The original marriage record for Jane Livingston just states she lives at "Crofs Street" in 1848. Or is that Cross Street? Hmm?

I dont precisely when Hugh arrived in Paisley but the eldest son "Hugh Livingstone son of Hugh Livingstone and Jean Shennan was born March 15, 1846 at 4 Moncrieff Street Paisley. It could be then Angus Livingston died the following year at 4 Moncrieff Street rather than 5 Cross Street where his son Hugh was apparently residing by the time of the 1851 Census. Less than a kilometer and across the river from Moncrieff Street is a North Croft Street which may the "Crofs Street" which may be the residence in 1848 at the time the wedding of Hugh's sister Jane Livingston. All very confusing i must admit.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
I took another look at the 1848 marriage record of Jane Livingston and Jacob (Edward) Logan in Paisley and Crofs Street. I don't think however it is an f but a fancy s. Another wards Cross Street. I have noticed in other 19th century records over the years this odd fancy s that looks like a f. THe last letter is in the original record is definitely an s and believe it is Cross Street where Jane was residing probably 5 Cross Street where brother Hugh Livingston was residing at according to the 1851 Census. So I am thinking that Hugh first resided at 4 Moncrieff Street around 1846 and sometime before Jane's wedding in 1848 he was residing at 5 Cross Street so ANgus could have died either at Moncreiff Street or the later Cross Street location would be my best guess.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

My guess would be a fancy old-fashioned s rather than an f too.

I've been following this thread a little bit--really great persistence leading to some breakthroughs here.

Excellent work--a great testament for family near and far.

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,
John and I have been discussing his ancestor Angus Livingston for so long now I almost think I know old Angus. More than just information from long ago on a musty piece of paper. Persistence I guess sometimes has its rewards. We now quite a bit about his military service during the early part of Napoleonic Wars and now with great bit of luck when and where he died in Scotland. I used to wonder if he had died during famine of the 1840's of starvation or disease somewhere in Argyll but in fact it looks like he went with two of his younger children Hugh and Jane sometime between 1841 when the census indicates he was living at Uragaig, Colonsay in Arygllwith Hugh, Jane and others and 1844 or thereabouts when the son Hugh appears to have been in Glasgow, Lanarkshire prior to settling in Paisley, Renfrewshire a year or two later, apparently with his sister Jane/Jean Livingson (Mrs Edward (Jacob) Logan). A few days before I went on holidays I just happened to notice some pension info that I thought we had already seen, but wanted to look at the original document which I had not seen and then I saw this small note to the right of Angus Livingston's information and saw "Died" "Paisley" 30/10 under the column marked 1847. I really found it entirely by accident and was actually looking for pension info on a great-great-great Uncle on my Mom's side of the family that served in the British Army during the Crimean War. If not for that search I would never have checked the original document for old Angus Livingston. So it is all by luck and chance I guess.

regards,

Donald