Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mull

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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby jmlivingstone » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:11 am

Hi Donalld,

I'll forward you a copy of certificates I've got when I get home tonight,

John
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:54 pm

Hi John,

I have a hunch that Angus after being receiving hospital care for his wound started to receive his pension and did not return to military service during the final years of the Napoleonic War. I think we would have seen information in the years between 1802 and 1815 if he had rejoined the Army in the archival 19th century British Military records. Also he seemed busy having a family with his wife Margaret between 1805 and 1815, that later period of the War with France. Perhaps the wound in his hand was severe enough that he unable to hold a rifle. I noticed he had been in a rifle unit in the Argyll Fencibles according to that ledger page where I found the entry regarding his death date at Paisley (Renfrewshire). He may not have lost a hand, but it may have been severely injured affecting his ability to hold a rifle or sword effectively.

From one of your earlier postings:

"We now know that he was actually a Kilmainham pensioner, & was discharged from the Fencibles about 21 Dec. 1801, due to wounds sustained to his hand during the Irish Rebellion, his discharge was recorded at Chelsea Jan. 1802).

4. 1802 - Angus found as a patient in Kilmainham Military Hospital, Dublin.(Update; Discharged to Kells, County Meath, about 40 miles from Dublin, about 21 Dec. 1801)"


regards,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:58 pm

Hi John,

Found this earlier posting from Aug. 21, 2012 of yours that I had forgotten about where you sorted out Keith's ancestry and connect him to son of James Cooper Livingston mentioned here who went to New Zealand. And no doubt you and Keith share kinship with Angus Livingston of Shaba, Ross of Mull, later Uragaig, Colonsay and finally Paisley, Renfrewshire.



jmlivingstone wrote:I think I may have just found another bit of the jigsaw puzzle for descendants of Angus & Margaret, a James Cooper Livingstone, b. 1895 in Edinburgh, d. 1961 in London.

James parents were Neil McLean Livingstone & Elizabeth Cooper, Elizabeth died 1928 in Paisley, Scotland, presumably she was living with her daughter, Elizabeth Bell Livingstone, at West Campbell St., Paisley.
Her daughter was married to a John McGibbon, she died at West Campbell St. on 10 July 1940.

This is the family Keith in Oz, reckoned had been left items belonging to Dr. Livingstone.

James married an Agnes Kate Colley, b. 1893 in Benenden, England, d. 1962 in London, they had one son, Chester Roy Livingstone, b. 07 Oct.1918 London, d. 20 July 1988, Auckland, New Zealand.

There are a couple of discrepancies, eg. James is listed as being born in Paisley in 1897, I suspect the tree this was originally posted in is wrong, & they were actually looking at the 1901 census, which lists a James, as the son of Thomas Livingstone, resident at 15, Glen St., Paisley, also, he was b. 1897, not 1895.


John

I think I remember now that Keith mentioned Chester back in the early years of the forum.
regards,

Donal
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:03 am

Hi John,

Here is your message from 2013.

jmlivingstone wrote:Another probable descendant of Angus & Margaret;

Chester Roy Livingstone, b. London 07 Oct. 1918, d. New Zealand 1988, f. James Cooper Livingstone, b. Edinburgh 1895, d. London 1961.

At present I am not 100% sure of this one, I am presently waiting on a copy of the death cert., so, I'll just have to wait & see what comes back from NZ.

I have searched all available records for James Cooper Livingstone in UK records, he appears to be the only one with this name anywhere close to the dates in available UK BDM records. Plus he was known as Jock, which pretty much makes it certain he had a Scottish accent,

John


regards ,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:00 pm

Hi John,
Trying to get a sense of the timeline of of those Livingstons who departed in the 1840's from the Angus Livingston residence in Uragaig, Colonsay.
In the 1841 Census at Uragaig, Colonsay we see Angus Livingston, his wife Margaret with James Livingston b. 1815, Hugh Livingston. We don't know precisely when Angus and his Livingston kin left the croft at Uragaig, but if the subsequent information pertains to the James Livingston and Hugh Livingston that resided with old Angus at Uragaig is correct then it would appear that not long after the census info was recorded the following year on April 15, 1842 James Livingston married Mary Macmillan and is recorded in the Colonsay Parish records according to the Colonsay parish records their eldest child Ann was born 1843 and shortly after that they left Colonsay, Scotland and settled in Eldon Township, Victoria County, Ontario. I noticed recently that the village of Woodville in Eldon County was mentioned by a descendant.

Hugh Livingston also married in 1842 late in 1842 but unlike James after he had left Colonsay. The information states that he on the 19th of November 1842 in Eastwood Parish which is in Renfrewshire but at the border with Lanarkshire apparently near the City of Glasgow. Hugh married his wife Jean Shannon there having left Uragaig probably in the 1841/1842 period. Perhaps no coincidence that they both married in the year 1842. Not sure whether Angus and family were forced off their farm or whether due to the difficult economic situation and crop failures left Colonsay, but I think we can establish with the Lanarkshire and subsequent Paisley, Renfrewshire information a good sense of when Angus and family probably left the farm at Uragaig, Colonsay. Hugh and James and probably the rest of the family got out of Colonsay just in time before the Potato crop failure further added to the misery of the local tenant farmers. Whether or not Angus and Margaret were forced off of their tenant farm sometime between 1841 and 1847 is not known but certainly we know that their children during this period decided to leave for one reason or another. Clearly by 1842/1843 Hugh then James had decided to leave Colonsay. Perhaps another reason to suspect a family connection between the two of them and that Hugh and the James Livingston that married in 1842 and left Colonsay around 1843 for Canada is kin to him. I mean the timing of departure from Colonsay is so close if might suggest that Hugh and James are connected.

Presumingly old Angus left the croft at Uragaig sometime between 1841 and before his death in 1847. His son Hugh apparently left shortly after the 1841 census was conducted. He seems to gone firstly to Lanarkshire where he married Jean Shannon in 1842.Their eldest child was born abt. 1844 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire according to the 1851 Census info and then sometime between 1844 and 1846 we know they went to Paisley, Renfrewshire. A sister of Hugh also is residing in Paisley, Renfrewshire we know arrived in Paisley Renfrewshire around the same time. And it would appear that old Angus ended up in Paisley Renfrewshire also in the 1844-1846 period before his death in 1847. So after the 1841 Census we can guesstimate when the family left the croft at Uragaig and where they went. Hugh first to Lanarkshire where he married in 1842 Jean Shannon and where in Glasgow in 1844 their first child a daughter Margaret was born. Then by 1845/1846 Hugh and family ended up in Paisley Middle Church, Renfrewshire where a son Hugh is born in 1846. Also there is there a sister of Hugh named Jane who married Edward Logan in 1848. Old Angus dies in Paisley in 1847 and in 1849 a son of Hugh named Robert is born in Paisley. Sometime between 1851 and 1858 Hugh and family move to Glasgow, Lanarkshire. So it is pretty clear that Angus probably ended up in Paisley sometime before his 1847 death and that he joined his son and daughter in Paisley as they were residing there sometime between 1844 and 1846. It is also conceivable that Angus went with his son Hugh to Lanarkshire around 1842 where Hugh married but it is not clear whether that was the case or that he joined him his final years by the time Hugh settled in Paisley by abt. 1844.

Old Angus died in October of 1847 and his daughter Jane who lived at Cross or Croft Street in Paisley High Church married Weaver Edward Logan on December 26, 1848. I am assuming she lived with her brother and his wife and family at the time of the marriage and the time of her father's death a year before her marriage. Minister was Rev. Laxton likely the same minister who may have recorded the death of Angus a year earlier or so earlier or officiated at his funeral in Paisley. Angus I would assume is buried in the church at that time associated with Rev. Laxton if you are looking for the probable location of where Angus was buried. Not that there is likely a surviving gravestone but I would assume there is good chance he was laid to the rest in the Presbyterian church graveyard of Rev. Laxton of Paisley High Church.


regards,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:44 pm

Hi John,

I recall you mentioned that Hugh Livingston disappears from the Scottish records after his wife's death in 1863. His daughter Margaret married in Scotland and is well documented by descendants I noticed. Margaret daughter of Hugh Livingstone & Jean Shannon, married Daniel Mulheron, 21 Oct 1863, Margaret died 01 Aug 1916 at Camlachie, Glasgow.The son Robert died in 1861 and Hugh's wife Jean Shannon died in 1863 in Glasgow. THat leaves Hugh and his youngest son Duncan that seem to disappear from the Scottish records sometime between 1863 and 1871 possibly.

Interestingly in August of 1870 a Hugh Livingston age 49 of Glasgow, Scotland or having departed from Glasgow, arrived in New York City aboard the Cumbria. It looks like he may have been a middle aged widower travelling with a son the name is hard to read but could be Duncan Livingston age 7 but he would be younger than the Duncan Livingston son of your Hugh Livingston so I am not sure it is the same Hugh Livingston and Duncan Livingston who is connected to your Livingston family. I guess you checked the death records in Scotland for Hugh after 1863.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:52 pm

Hi John,

Almost everyone that was living with old Angus Livingston at his croft at Uragaig, Colonsay at the time of the 1841 Scottish Census can be located in later years but still there are a few unaswered questions.

1841 Census Urigaig, (Colonsay) (not Jura)

Angus Livingston age 60 Army Pensioner (Actually more like 66 years. Perhaps the census taker wrote down an approx. age. Lot of work to go all around parishes of Western Argyll from tenant to tenant collecting census data. Probably well supplied with whiskey along the way from locals so easy to loose track of actual numbers.
Margaret Livingston age 55
James Livingston age 25
Hugh Livingston age 20
Ann Livingston age 15
Jean Livingston age 11
Malcolm McMillan age 25
Duncan Livingston age 6 months
Christina Livingston age 25

What happened to Angus Livingston and those who lived at the Livingston residence at Urigaig croft?

Angus Livingston Chelsea Pensioner served in the Rifle Brigade, Argyll Fencibles which were stationed in the defence of Ireland from invasion by the French supporting the Irish Rebellion of late 1790's. Wounded in hand, discharged from the Rifle Brigade, Argyll Fencibles Dec. 21, 1801. born abt. 1775 Shiaba, Ross of Mull . Presumed to have left his croft at Urigaig, Colonsay sometime between 1841 and 1847 and joined his son Hugh an daughter Jean/Jane Logan in Paisley, Renfrewshire where according to his final Chelsea pension record entry he is known to have died Oct. 30, 1947 Paisley, Renfrewshire m. Margaret McPhail in some parish records referred to as Margaret Hall abt. 1804 or 1805.

Margaret Livingston (Margaret McPhail) born abt. 1786 wife of Angus, place of death not known

James Livingston abt. 1815 married Mary McMillan on April 15,1842 while still residing at Colonsay Mary McMillan of Colonsay a year or so after the Census was taken. Their eldest child Ann was baptized 1843 in Colonsay and by 1843/1844 they left Colonsay for Canada where they settled in Eldon Township, Victoria County, Canada West (later known as Ontario, Canada). Several years later James Livingston and family are residing in Arthur Township, Wellington County, Ontario.

Hugh Livingston baptized June 16,1819 Ross of Mull, Mull died unknown. Married Jean/Jane Shannon 1842 in Eastwood Parish, Renfrewshire near Glasgow and Lanarkshire border. By mid 1840''s they are residing at Paisley, Renfrewshire and father Angus Livingston may have been living with him when he died in 1847 in Paisley. Later Hugh, Jean and family resided in Glasgow. Jean died May 11, 1863 in Glasgow. It is not known when Hugh Livingston died or where. His last residence in 1863 at the time of his wife's death was Calton Street in Glasgow.

Ann Livingston born abt. 1824 in Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon Parish, Ross of Mull died July 8, 1860 age 36 at District of Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanarkshire She is recorded as married and her listed as "Ann McPhail. (Married husband Gilbert McPhail a boat building labourer on Feb. 2, 1841 in Kilmore and kilbride, Argyll. She died in Govan Poor House a pauper. The Parents are identified as Angus Livington Chelsea Pensioner and Margaret McPhail. Informant is her brother Hugh Livingston

Jean Livingston or Jane Livingston baptised January 18, 1829 Ross of Mull born abt. 1828? married Jacob (Edward) Logan Dec. 26, 1848 in Paisley, Renfrewshire and lived in the Paisley Renfrewshire around the same time as Hugh Livingston. Jean or Jane Livingston may have lived with her brother Hugh Livingston and his family in Paisley before she married Mr. Logan in 1848. Hugh resided at Cross or Croft St in Paisley. Jean or Jane Logan died January 2, 1862 in High Church, Glasgow.

Malcolm McMillan age 25 married Christina Livingston January 26, 1840 in Colonsay whom seems to be some relation to old Angus and his wife Margaret as Christina and her husband Malcolm and their young son Duncan are living with Angus and his family. Malcolm McMillan's whereabouts after the 1841 Census have not been verified but the obituary of James Livingston's wife Mary McMillan years later indicates that a Malcolm McMillan of Toronto, Ontario, Canada is her brother. According to James Livingston's wife Mary's 1910 obituary:
"...Deceased whose maiden name was Mary McMillan, was born in the Highlands of Scotland about 86 years ago. She was married to James Livingston there in May 1842. Next year they came to Canada...There are living also a brother, Mr. Malcolm McMillan, Toronto, and a sister, Mrs Thos. Vogan, Wiarton (Ontario)..." Source: Mount Forest Confederate Jan 13, 1910."
(I found Mary's sister Thomas Vogel's second wife( Ann McMillan) in Wiarton, Bruce County in the 1901 Ontario Census however I did not locate Malcolm McMillan in Toronto, Ontario circa 1910.) The Malcolm Livingston that married Christina Livingston in Colonsay arrived in Ontario, Canada in the 1840's and sometime before 1861 had located with his family in Bexley Township, Victoria County, Ontario near Eldon Township, Victoria County where James Livingston and Mary McMillan settled about 1845. Eldon Township is right beside Bexley Township where in the 1861 Census Malcolm McMillan, his wife Christina and their younger children still living at home are recorded. Isabella McMillan (Mrs Archibald McLean) was apparently the first to be in Ontario, Canada in 1848 so I assume that Malcolm and Christina arrived around the same time as James Livingston and Mary McMillan in Victoria County, Ontario or a year or two later for that 1848 birth date in Canada of Isabella to occur. In any event the fact that Christina Livingston and her husband Malcolm McMillan and James Livingston and his wife Mary McMillan both ended up in the Eldon Township/Bexley Township, Victoria County area around the same time period further suggests a family connection back home in Colonsay to me.

Duncan McMillan age 6 months Malcolm and Christina's first child: another son Donald Mcmillan was baptized June 18, 1842 in Colonsay.

Christina Livingston age 25 married Malcolm Livingston according to Colonsay Parish records in 1840. She and her husband Malcolm McMillan in the 1840's settled in Ontario Canada and sometime before 1861 settled at Bexley Township near Eldon Township in Victoria County.


regards,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:32 pm

Hi John,

Regarding the above postings I have some good news. As mentions James Livingston and Mary McMillan settled first of all in Eldon Township, Victoria County, Ontario, Canada about 1844 or 1845 after leaving Colonsay. I did not know what became however of the Malcolm Livingston and Christina Livingston that were living with old Angus. I looked for over a year in the Ontario Canada records but none of the Malcolm Livingstons quite fit and no sign of a Malcolm Livingston and Christina Livingstone. Finally a bit of break this afternoon in my search for Malcolm and his wife and family in Ontario Canada where I thought they might have gone. I found a death record for a Isabella McLean who was born on Dec. 25, 1848 and died on 12, November 1909 in Eldon Township, Victoria County, Ontario and her parents are recorded as none other than Malcolm Livingston and Christina Livingstone. Given that Eldon Township, Victoria County, Ontario is where James Livingston and his wife Mary McMillan settled around 1845 I suspect that this Isabella McLean who is the daughter of a Malcolm Livingston and Christine Livingston must be the daughter of the Malcolm Livingston and Christina Livingston who were living with old Angus at Urigaig Colonsay in 1841 with James Livington who married Mary McMillan in 1842 and perhaps Malcolm Livingston and his wife settled in Eldon Township way back in 1845 and that is why I am seeing this daughter living in Eldon Township, Victoria much later in 1909 when she died. At least I have a name of a daughter and the Eldon township, Victoria county info as a starting point in my search.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby jmlivingstone » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:33 am

Hi Donald,

I've been rather busy the last couple of weeks, and will continue to be so till the end of the month, so apologises for not responding to your recent posts, or e-mailing certificates as promised, will do so asap,

John
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Re: Angus Livingstone& Margaret (Hall/McPhail), Shiaba, Mul

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:40 pm

Hi John,

As always your Livingstone family history insight is appreciated whenever you are able to drop by and provide it.

regards,

Donald
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