James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

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James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Roberta Gilbert » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:34 pm

I need help tracing my line past the James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn of the Kinderhook Livingston's I descend from their son Jacob (& Sarah House), his son James (& Susannah Jackson), their son James (& Roby Martin), their son Giles R. (& Cyrena Nancy LaForce), their daughter Evalyn Ida (& Giles Hackathorn) to Viva Vey Hackathorn (& George Curtis) to my mother Viva Vey Curtis (& William Robert Haney).
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Kyle MacLea » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:53 pm

Hi Roberta

Welcome to the Clan Forum!

If wonder if you could give us any dates or locations to go with these names? That would help us locate them in our records and in other places.

Thanks--and we hope we can help you!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
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New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Roberta Gilbert » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:08 am

You bet!
James Livingston born abt 1699 to 1703 Zuid Holland, Netherlands died aft 1750 Kinderhook (Germantown) Columbia Co NY; married 9 Mar 1728 Dutch Reformed Church Kinderhook (Germantown) Columbia Co NY to Catherina Kuhn born 19 Aug 1703 Langenselbold Hessen-Nassua Prussia died bet 1744 and 1794 Kinderhook (Germantown) Columbia Co NY
Jacob Livingston born 9 Nov 1746 Kinderhook (Germantown) Columbia Co NY died after 1839 in Schoharie, Schoharie Co., NY; married 1767 Dutchess, NY to Sarah House born abt 1746 Columbia County, NY died 24 Dec 1801 Schoharie, Schoharie Co., NY
James Livingston (Sr) born 1770 Churchtown, Columbia County, NY died 17 Jun 1836 in New York; married abt 1794 to Susanna Jackson born abt 1780 died 6 Jan 1832 Cincinnatus, Corland Co., NY buried Upper Cincinnatus Cemetery, Cincinnatus, Cortland County, NY
James Livingston (jr) born 1796 Columbia Co., NY died in Iowa; married Roby Martin born abt 1801 Massachusettes
Giles R. Livingston born 18 Sep 1834 Courtland County NY died 18 Mar 1909 Sioux City, Nebraska buried Floyd Cemetary, Sioux City, Nebraska; married 6 Jul 1857 Cyrena Nancy LaForce born 20 Oct 1841 Coldwater, Branch County, MI died 3 Aug 1920 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS buried Mount Hope, Kansas City, KS
Evalyn Ida Livingston born 27 Aug 1872 West Union, Fayette County, IA died 13 Jan 1937 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS; married 19 Jul 1890 Danbury, Woodbury County, IA to Ulysses Grant Hackathorn born 11 Apr 1870 New Matamoras, OH died 31 Jan 1914
Viva Vey Hackathorn born 4 Nov 1898 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS died 25 Mar 1960 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS buried Mount Hope Cemetery, Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS; married 1 Jan 1915 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS to George F. Curtis born 5 Sep 1894 Manchester, Dickinson County, KS died 14 Jun 1970 Heber City, UT buried Shawnee, Overland Park, KS
Viva Vey Curtis born June 14, 1917 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS died 30 Jun 1996 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS buried Chapel Hill Cemetary, Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS; married 24 Jun 1939 Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS to William Robert Haney born 21 May 1915 Wakenda, Carroll County, MO died
27 Apr 2001 Woodward, Woodward County, OK buried
Chapel Hill Cemetary, Kansas City, Wyandotte County, KS

then me:Roberta Gilbert born 1953 in KC, MO.
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Jerry » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:10 pm

Hi Roberta, for your own records to make them more accurate you may want to change the location of Floyd cemetery to Iowa. When referencing Nebraska it’s “South” Sioux City, NE in Dakota County and across the river it’s Sioux City, Iowa in Woodbury County. It’s very possible Giles Livingston was from South Sioux, Nebraska and was buried in Sioux City, Iowa as Floyd cemetery is definitely on the Iowa side.
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Roberta Gilbert » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:31 pm

Thanks, Jerry. His place of death was listed as 11 St So Sioux City, Nebraska. His kids were all born in West Union, Fayette County, IA. And my gr grandmother Evalyn Ida married Grandpa Grant in Danbury, Woodbury County, IA. So it must be IA.
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:54 pm

Hi Roberta,

Welcome to the forum. There are a number of families primarily in the United States researching like yourself this Livingston family with roots to a James Livingston who married a Palentine German Kinderhook,New Yorker Katharine Kuhn. Regretably not much is known about James Livingston and more about the family of Katharine Kuhn. I would assume as your info states that James Livingston's family roots are in holland or Palentine germany. There is always some confusion when dealing with New York State Livingston families sorting out those Livingstons connected with the historically prominent old New York family of Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor, New York who originated in Holland but was the son of a Scottish Presbyterian John Livingston who fled to Holland in the 1600's for religious reasons. The Kinderhook Livingston family of James Livingston who married Katharine Kuhn is apparently of another family line originating in Germany or perhaps Holland. I had thought perhaps that James was of palentine german origin like his wife Katharine Kuhn's family but I was by no means certain of this. As there were both Dutch and German families living in significant numbers in the Kinderhook area in the 1700's he could be of dutch origin as you state.

Currently we have at least one person in our Clan Maclea livingstone DNA Project who has genealogical info linking their Livingston family to that of the James Livingston and Kathrarine or Catharine Kuhn of the Kinderhook, NY Livingstons you believe you are related to. This is both and interesting and perplexing family line of New York State Livingstons so we greatly appreciate you providing us with the research info you have located. Again I regret to say that little is known of your ancestor James Livingston.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Roberta Gilbert » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:08 pm

Thanks, Donald.
Family verbal history says we are Scottish and the family left Scotland because of religion and eventually came to New York area. One story had a brother going to Canada and then to New York (never said which one). The James (married to Roby Martin) who went to Iowa was a Methodist minister and circuit rider. I've wondered whether our James was also descended from the Scottish minister's family. What's the possiblity that James marreid to Catharina is the son of James Liviingston b abt 1674 Scotland & Maria Roos b. abt 1675 Netherlands?
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:02 am

Hi Roberta,

There were no doubt a number Livingston families that settled in what became New York State from the English colonial period of the late 1600's to the 1800's but weve focused mainly on two of the oldest families. One of these could be connected to your family but not neccessarily so. There were a number of other Livingston families both of lowland and highland origin that settled in what became New York State. From the information you have sent however it looks like you or your kin have connected your Livingston family line to that of James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn. These are of course the two principal ones from New York State area that seems to present the most interest from those that contact us:

1. Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor, Dutchess County,New York prominent land owner son of Rev. John Livingston originally of Ancrum, Scotland later fled to Holland. Robert Livingston arrived in late 1600's. Many prominent New York Livingstons were connected to this family in the 1700's and 1800's. Robert and John Livingston are decendants of the old lowland aristocratic Livingston family that lived at one time in Callendar,Scotland.

2. James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn of Kinderhook, Columbia County, NY. Presumingly James lived amongst the Palentine German community in the Kinderhook area where he met and married Catharine. Some have suggested James was of german origin possibly orignally "Liebenstein" or some similar german name but I dont know that there is any definite proof of that. I think the assumption was that this James was more likely of German or Dutch origin ethnically speaking than Scottish. With a lack of proof I guess it is really open to speculation. Our DNA project has tested at least one person believed to be a male Livingston descendant of James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn and if we test a few more proven descendants in the future we may be able to draw some definite conclusions on whether this family line from Kinderhook was ethnically German/Dutch or Scottish in origin.
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:24 am

Hi Roberta,

If I understand correctly your ancestor James Livingston Jr. b. 1799 and his wife Roby Martin b. abt. 1801 left Cortland County, New York State and were in West Union, Fayette County, Iowa before 1854/1856. Giles and some of their other children are apparently listed in a Fayette County, Iowa Census circa 1856. Did not know about an 1856 Census. The family should be included in an 1861 Census in IOwa and in the census of 1851 in New York State I would presume. I wonder if James Livingston and his wife Roby and family are recorded in 1851 Census in New York State ? Have you seen the 1851 U.S. Census info on your ancestor James Livingston Jr. and his family?

Perhaps some of our U.S Livingston experts with access to the U.S census records may help shed light on this detailed info. Are there surviving cemetery records for the father James livingston Sr. of James livingston Jr. being buried in that cemetery in Courtland County, NY in 1832. Also would worth checking out James livington Sr. in the 1800, 1810,1820 and 1830 Census in Columbia or Courtland County, New York State. Also James Livingston Jr. in the 1841 Census for Cortland County, New York State.

regards,

Donald
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Postby Roberta Gilbert » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:51 am

This is what I have on James & Roby:
Was a Methodist preacher from New York state who moved to West Union, IA and became a circuit rider about the time of the Civil War. (Letter from Vern Livingston to Cyrena Jo Livingston, his niece)

Sometime after 1840, James and Roby, started traveling. He is found in McHenry Co., IL, in 1843, and 1846, where he and Roby purchased and sold property. Roby was named in a will of two of her siblings, as the wife of James Livingston, and their residence in the 1869 WILL and 1870 WILL was West Union, Fayette Co., IA.

The obituary of Tracy, s/o James and Roby Livingston reveals: West Union Advertiser: Nov. 11, 1896: Tracy Livingston, aged 66, for 45 years a resident of Iowa, died at his home east of this city, Monday evening of last week from kidney disease. He was born in Cortlandt[Cortland] Co. N.Y. He was buried in West Union cemetery Wednesday. Services conducted by Rev. Noel. He had one sister, and eight brothers, five of whom are living. He never married. I was only able to find six of these children listed with them [by given name] dau. Louisa; sons, Horace, Avery, Tracy, Giles, LaFayette.

" On 27 May 1844 James purchased 80 acres from the gov't in Boone Co., IL. This land he and Roby sold on 29 May 1846, they were still of McHenry Co., IL, where they acknowledged their deed/signatures.Anne Townsend..Anneto@aol.com <mailto:Townsend..Anneto@aol.com>

West Union, Fayette Co. Iowa in 1856, 1860, and 1870. at # 230: 1856 yr. Horace Livingston, 26, b. NY, farmer Eli Miller,(no information given, poss. husband of Louisa who m. a Miller) # 248: James Livingston, 57, b. NY Roby, 55, b. MA Avery, 33, b. NY Tracy, 26, b. NY Giles, 20, b. NY Lafayette, 13, b. NY

# 1194, 1860 yr. Giles Livingston, 24, b. NY, farmer Sarena, 17, b. OH Allice, 2, b. IA George F., 1mo., b. IA

# 1246, 1860 yr. James Livingston, 63, b. CT ?, farmer Roba?, 58, b. NY ? Avery, 40, b. NY Horace, 27, b. NY Tracy, 25, b. NY Lafayette, 18, b. NY

# 178, 1870 yr. Giles Livingston, 34, b. NY, farmer Lorna (Irena)?, 28, b. OH Alice, 12, b. IA George, 10, b. IA M.E., 9, b. IA Anna, 7, b. IA Josah, 4, b. IA Albert, 2, b. IA Frederick, 9mo., b. IA

# 90, 1870 yr. James Livingston, 70, b. MA?, farmer Rody ?, 70, b. MA Avery, 40, b. NY

# 179, 1870 yr. Orin Livingston, 36, b. NY, farmer C.F., 28, b. OH Emma, 11, b. IA Herbert, 1mo., b. IA

# 77, 1870 yr., Windsor, IA Lafayette Livingston, 27, b. NY

# 78, 1870 yr. Windsor, IA Tracy Livingston, 40, b. NY, farmer Louisa, 47, b. NY (sister) m. ? Miller


We think James(b 1796) probably died in Iowa. His father James (b. 1770) died in NY and is buried Upper Cincinnatus Cemetery, Cincinnatus, Cortland County, NY,same as his mother Susanna Jackson. His father Jacob (b 1746) is believed to have died after 1830 in Schoharie, Schoharie Co., NY. as is wife Sara House died there in 1801.

I had a Family Tree DNA Family Finder done, and all that showed up on my autosomal results was Middle Eastern (about 5%) and West Europeon with Orkney as the reference group (none of the French from the LaForce nor German from the Ziegler lines showed up). Don't know if it helps anything, since my Livingston is on my mom's side, and I understand that the only DNA of value in lineage is Y-DNA. Hopefully we can get a male Livingston from James/Catharina tested soon. Thanks.
Roberta
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