James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

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Kyle MacLea
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Linda

Following up with you in a PM, but I can't seem to find that a direct male descendant of James has tested for comparison. If anyone has one in their tree, please consider getting them tested! but I can tell you more about your cousin in the PM. In short I will relate that I agree with your assessment that he has no close matches in the Project, which means whether someone in the Livingstone project claims James/Catherine as ancestors or not, none of the ~300 men we've tested thus far look like your cousin genetically.

Kyle
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
Roberta Gilbert
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Roberta Gilbert »

Just made contact with a descendant of James L. & Kuhn, who's male cousin has agreed to test!!!! I offered to pay, now I need to gather the money and get a kit sent to him. I'm assuming we need to do the 67?
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Hi Roberta

37 at a minimum, because I believe that is what Linda had tested as well.

But 67 is what I consider to be the minimally most useful test these days, so I recommend that. But if money is tight 37 will be fine. If you do find a match, upgrading further may be of interest at a later point.

Thank you so much for tracking someone down to test! :)

I am sure Linda will be happy as well!

Kyle
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
LindaLily
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by LindaLily »

Great news Roberta! These results should help people trying to determine if they are descended from this couple. I believe your line is through Jacob Livingston (brother to my Samuel)? And yes, I also paid for my cousin's Livingston kit as I was the one who wanted the results. I did test at 37 markers thinking I could pay for the upgrade later on if needed. But if I win a lottery I am spending most of it on genealogy trips and DNA kits! :D
Roberta Gilbert
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Roberta Gilbert »

Yes, Linda, I am from Jacob & Sarah, as is the gentleman who has agreed to test. I am down from Jacob's son, James, and he is from James' brother John.
Roberta Gilbert
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Roberta Gilbert »

Today I ordered the Y-67 for John Scott Livingston, direct male descendant from James & Catharina Kuhn
LindaLily
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by LindaLily »

Looking through pages on this forum I found the following:
Livingston 109136 and 27752 are definitely related, based on the close DNA result. We do not yet have genealogical information concerning 27752, but 109316 is a test result from the Livingstons of Kinderhook, who are often associated with the Livingstons of Clermont, who lived nearby at a similar time. They descend from James Livingston of Kinderhook in New York, who in 1728 married Catherine Kuhn, who was a “Palatine” (early protestant German immigrant). The family is mentioned on webpages. See for example http://www.clanmclea.co.uk/forum/show-m ... sp?ID=3618
So it would appear that there should be results already in the study from a descendant of James. However, I cannot see a kit number 109136 anywhere? Can anybody comment on this?
Thanks,
Linda
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Linda,
As Clan Society Historian I have been following your recent discussions with Roberta.
I recall the earlier interesting discussions here at the forum some years back with Roberta Gilbert regarding the mysterious origin of James Livingston the husband of Palentine German Catharine Kuhn of Kinderhook, NY. I don't know who 109136 or details of their genealogy except that Andrew Lancaster our DNA Project coordinator mentioned in the past information you have seen that 109136 had family history info that linked him to your ancestor James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn of Kinderhook, NY. I don't think they have contacted the forum to the best of my knowledge.I am hoping that they do make contact with Andrew once again or Clan Society and share with us their genealogy info regarding the Livingstons. Andrew when I contacted him about 109136 cited the above mentioned information you located and interestingly the results of 109136 and 27752 suggests shared Northern Ulster origins. He did not mention detecting anything in the dna results that would suggest 109136 or 27752 was of German origin. As a matter of fact he mentioned to me that 109136 and 27752 and have results that suggest they are or Ulster Northern Irish origin Scotch Irish as they are often referred to as in America.

I assume the Clermont Livingtons would be a branch of that old Colonial NY Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor, NY family and not connected to James Livingston but I could not say that with 100 percent certainty as I just not certain at this stage what James ethnic origins were and what family is was connected to. Was he German or was he Scottish or Scotch Irish. I assumed some back his was a german who changed his name to Livingston because that was what some thought, but that may not be true. That I think is why the DNA project is good idea for both probable descendants of James Livington of Kinderhook as well as those from other pre 1775 Livingston families like those linked to old Robert Livingston. I know some Livingstons claiming descent from a branch of that old Robert Livingston family have also been tested several years ago now, but probably a few more need to be tested before any matches turn up with the test results.

Although not related to James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn I was greatly interested to learn of them. I do agree with the logic of one of Roberta's past comments from several years ago that it makes little sense for a Palentine German a tenant of Robert Livingston who did not get along with his Palentine german tenants to adopt the his name Livingston. Makes no sense to me either. James was also a popular scottish name so maybe he was Scottish or Scotch Irish as Andrew is suggesting. If James Livingston was a first generation German immigrant to Colonial NY. his name would not likely be James. More likely a German equivalent like Jacob. Andrew's information on the DNA results of 109136 in any event suggests that they were similar to some other families of Northern Irish origin. More tests of known descendants of James Livingston will hopefully clarify whether they are a close match to 109136 and 27752 and will hopefully identify those who who are descendants of James Livingston of KInderhook in the future.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
LindaLily
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by LindaLily »

Thanks Donald.
I really appreciate the clarification about those 2 kits and your input on the subject. I guess we will wait now and see if Roberta's cousin matches my Mom's cousin (or not) and take it from there. Thanks again, Linda
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: James Livingston/Catherina Kuhn ancestry

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Linda,

Yes hopefully the results provide a better understanding of the origins of James Livingston. I know there are quite a few people in North America with shared Scottish and German ancestry such as myself, given that there were so many Scottish, Scotch Irish, and German families that settled in North America in the 18th and 19th centuries in particular, often in close proximity to one another. That may be how James Livingston if he was Scotch-Irish or scottish met Catharine Kuhn who was definitively of Palentine German origins. I was looking at the earlier discussion at the forum several years ago with Roberta Gilbert regarding James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn.There was another lady who some years earlier contacted the forum who also had expertise on James Livingston and Catharine Kuhn I seem to recall. About 10 years ago I read an old book published by the Genealogical Publishing Company about the Palentine Germans who settled in New York State and it had a list of some of the original Palentine German families.

regards,

Donald
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