Duncan Livingstone from Cuil Bay

[Am Beothach Mollach]

I gather that there are plenty of Canadian Livingstones out there... Does anybody have any information about a Duncan Livingstone who wrote to the Oban Times from Darnia? Sarnia? in Canada in 1880, saying that he had been born at Greenfield, Cuil, Duror? I'm assuming he's the Duncan who was born at Cuil around 1829 and was my great-grandfather Hugh's younger brother. Any descendants online? As a very new forum member I'd be delighted to find some cousins!

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hello Am Beothach Mollach,
Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. That would be Sarnia, Ontario for sure where Duncan Livingston resided in the late 1800's He is recorded in the 1861, 1871,1881 and 1991 Census as an Innkeeper/ farmer with family living in the Sarnia, Lambton County Ontario Canada area born around 1830 or thereabouts in Scotland. I could not find him in the 1901 Census there and he may have died sometime between 1891 and 1901.

I am not certain when he came to Canada, but from the 1841 and 1851 Scottish Census of Argyllshire, there is information in 1841 Duncan age is residing with father Malcolm a widowed tailor age 55 at Cuil Duror and his brother Hugh your ancestor a sister Catharine age 4 and a younger brother Malcolm age 3 By the time of 1851 Census, the father Malcolm is apparently deceased, Duncan is no living in Argyllshire and may have left for Canada by this time and only Hugh and Malcolm Livingston Jr. are still residing at Cuil, Duror, Argyllshire. He definitely was in Canada by 1859/1860 or earlier because in the 1861 Canada West (Ontario Canada) Census Duncan Livingston is recorded as an Innkeeper residing in the town of Sarnia, Lambton County, Canada West (Ontario, Canada) with his recently married wife Mary a native of Ireland and a 1 year son named Malcolm born in Canada.

At some point I could check to see if that is the case. We do focus quite a bit on Canadian Livingstones/Livingstone because there were significant number of our highland clan that ended up in the present day provinces of Canada and we seem to hear from their descendants on a fairly regular basis. By 1901 a century or more of Livingstone settlement had occurred a there were roughly speaking 1058 Livingstons and 650 Livingstones residing in Canada by this time, give or take a hundred or so more with some odd spelling variations to give you an idea of our aproximate numbers then. So safe to say somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1800 people or thereabouts. I would assume that the vast majority, but not all, would be of highland Livingstone/Livingston Western Argyllshire ancestry or origin.

Though we have been regarded as a small highland clan by some historians, I think there are many more Livingstones/Livingstons out there than many people realize and our clan has a very interesting and ancient history in Western Argyllshire. There are a number of articles on our Clan Maclea Livingstone Website which you may find helpful if you want to learn more about the origins of the Clan in addition to the information in our many postings here from forum contributors.

Dont know of any kin of yours as yet but this is definitely a good place to try and locate them. Interesting story regarding this Duncan Livingston of Sarnia, Ontario, Canada, his origins in Duror Parish near Ballachulish Parish and appreciate you bringing it to our attention. Indeed the the 1881 Ontario, Canada Census indicates that there was a Duncan Livingston farmer age about 50 born in Scotland residing in Sarnia, Ontario circa early 1880s. I suspect this the Duncan Livingston born abt. 1829 in your information. His eldest son James age 19 was born in ONtario so I would assume that he resided in Ontario since at least 1860. His wife Mary age 43 was born in Ireland so I suspect their marriage took place in Ontario sometime around 1859 or 1860 or thereabouts. Interestingly Duncan according the census was of the Church of England perhaps indicating his Livingston families Epsicopalian origins with a Livingston family in the Duror and Ballachulish Parish many of whom were known to have been Scottish Episcopalian. If this is the case then Duncan Livingston's birth or baptismal records would not be found in the Duror Parish records as they are Presbyterian. Even if he was baptised a Presbyterian in Duror Parish it would be a problem finding a record as the Presbyterian Duror Parish records do not exist before the year 1833. There are some early Epsicopalian records and cemtery info connected to St. John's Episcopalian Church of nearby Ballachulish Parish and the families that lived in the Ballachulish and neighbouring areas but a couple of records pertaining to Duror Parish families. And Malcolm and his family of Cuil, Duror Parish are not included unfortunately. Presumingly the families Duror Parish info was recorded at the time but it may not have survived. We have a lady who has done some research and is familiar with these old Episcopalian Church records for Ballachulish and will see what she knows about early Episcopalian church records from Duror Parish. I fear they may be lost. Given that some of those in Duror Parish lived very close to Southern Balachulish it may be that a number of Duror Parish residents of Episcopalian church attended the St. John's Church at Ballachuilish and the surviving records are incomplete.

THe 1881 ONtario, Canada Census
Sarnia, Lambton County
(I assume this if the Duncan Livingston of Sarnia who wrote the information stating his birthplace as being Cuil, Duror Parish in 1880.)
Duncan Livingston age 50 farmer Church of England born Scotland (abt. 1831) In 1871 and 1891 indicated as being born 1830 and 1832.
Mary age 43 born Ireland
James age 19 born Ontario
Eliza age 17 born Ontario
May or Mary age 10 born Ontario
John age 6 born Ontario
Sarah age 2 born Ontario

Perhaps by you posting your inquiry and this information a descendant of this Sarnia, Lambton County, ONtario family may contact the forum in the future. Given that we our connected to official site of the Clan Chief and the Maclea Livingstone Clan Society chances are good if a descendant is looking into their Livingstone Clan roots they might well check out the Clan website and forum. We have been contacted by a few Livingstons with family connections to Ballachulish and least one who though working in Ballachulish seems to have resided earlier in neighbouring Duror Parish. We were interested in discovering over the last year or so that a number of Western Argyllshire Livingstons worked at slate mines of Ballachulish and were associated with the old Episcopalian congregation there in Ballachulish.

I quite agree with you that this Duncan Livingston of Sarnia Ontario Canada born abt. 1830/31/32 according to the Ontario Census records of 1861, 1871,1881 and 1891 who came to Ontario from Cuil, Duror Parish, Argyllshire sometime before 1860 could possibly be the Duncan Livingston age 12 recorded as residing at Cuil, Duror Parish in the 1841 Scottish census with father Malcom Livingston age 55, brother Hugh Livingston age 15, a sister Catharine age 14 and a brother Malcolm age 3. The 1851 Census indicates that only your ancestor Hugh Livingston age 25 and his brother Malcolm age 16? remain in Duror Parish apparently located at a place called Isag. Perhaps he left for Canada sometime between 1841 and 1851 then. Earliest Canadian Census I found him in was the 1861 Census a about a year or little more after his marriage in Ontario, Canada. Whatever happened he must have made his way by ship to Canada sometime in the 1840's or 1850's perhaps with relatives. I would think it a pretty good assumption you have found the lost relative of your ancestor Hugh in that 1880 information you located. |The odds are you are correct given the small number of Duncan Livingstons born around 1829/`1830 that resided in the Cuil Bay area of Duror Parish in the 1840's and that left there for Ontario Canada. Its a plus of course that you actually have an article or letter from Duncan himself that helps to back you up.

I can not locate your ancestor Hugh Livingston born abt. 1826 in the subsequent 1861 Scottish Census record. Do you know what became of him after the 1850's? Did he leave Scotland also?

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

Family Search have Duncans death as 12 Sept. 1893, at Sarnia, Lambton, Ont., religion is C of E, birth Scotland about 1830, nothing on Hugh,

John.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hello John,
Hope you had a good summer.
Worthwhile investing in a good atlas of Scotland if you can find one. Have been making good use of mine as Livingstones/Livingstons have resided all over Scotland and an atlas is a necessary tool. Ordinance Survey Maps are also useful in your zeroing in to a specific locality and lookiing for a tiny village. I have Cuil Bay in my Atlas in the old Duror Parish area not far from Southern Ballachulish. I dont know if you are interested at all in antique maps of Scotland. If so the National Library of Scotland has a great online map site of ancient and more recent maps of Scotland that is just fantastic. They have maps in their collection of Argyllshire dating back to the 1600's that are quite interesting, but not so accurate. They have a map of the Island of Mull from around 1650 which includes the nearby Island of Lismore. This map is surprisingly detailed listing many villages on both Mull and Lismore circa 1650.

Excellent. Thanks for that. Well that would explain why I cant find old Duncan in 1901 Ontario Census for Sarnia. The 1901 Census would have included a full birthdate which would have been useful for verification. The earlier Ontario Censuses of 1851/52(largely missing),1861,1871,1881 and 1891 do not include a birthdate just the age of person censused. The original Ontario death record wont likely tell us much more than he was born in Scotland; those from the 1800's generally contain little detail regarding the place of birth.
regards,
Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Welcome, Malcolm, to our Clan Forum and we are also happy that you have joined our Clan Society as well.

As you can see, Donald and John are two of our quick genealogists/historians and they have an incredible way of finding records and information in a fraction of the time. Great job, Donald and John!

We'd definitely love to hear more about your family, Malcolm--and you might let everyone know about your connection to "Am Beothach Mollach"--which is one of those great names our clansmen should know!

Kyle=

[Am Beothach Mollach]

Gadzooks, fellow clansmen - I am extremely impressed - and truly delighted - by your fascinating and extraordinarily detailed responses to my query. It is interesting to know that Duncan had a good-sized family - I imagine there may yet be a fair few descendants in Ontario and elsewhere. Thank you very much indeed - I never remotely imagined that I would get such prompt satisfaction!

My great-grandfather Hugh, Duncan's big brother, was born in the clachan of Greenfield, North Cuil, Duror, where his father Malcolm was tailor - and no doubt a crofter too. By the 1851 census Malcolm was presumably dead and Hugh was trying to make a living running the local store at Isag (Inshaig today, a long stone's throw from Cuil, and still the site of the one and only village shop) - he probably took it over when his aunt Sarah Colquhoun retired; but by the end of the decade he had given up the struggle and moved south to Glasgow to work as a railway porter, and had married a McColl girl, also from Appin. My grandfather and namesake Malcolm Livingstone (Malcolms and Hughs alternate in the traditional way through the generations for first-born males in my father's family) was born in a single-end in the Gorbals in 1860; his father Hugh died in 1890 at the given age of 63. His sister Catherine whom you mention from the 1841 census married a McLaren, was widowed tragically early, worked on in Duror as a farm labourer, eventually moved to Glasgow - even more of a magnet for Livingstones than Canada - and spent her latter years in service in Inveraray. As for Hugh and Duncan's younger brother Malcolm - I once came across the photograph of a Malcolm Livingstone sent down for sheep-stealing in the 1860s in a court record on display in the People's Palace on Glasgow Green, and he had that characteristic triangular-shaped (when seen sideways on) family head; so who knows, maybe that indeed was he...!

At the time of the 1841 Statistical Account, and still in my father's childhood, Cuil Bay was a beautiful strand of silver sand to the SW of the Duror peninsula - Duror being half-way between Ballachulish at the mouth of Glencoe and the Strath of Appin. Autumn storms over the years have largely replaced the sand with shingle - but it is still a very lovely spot and well worth a visit. As it happens I am planning to head there this weekend to sit on a bench I've recently had installed overlooking Loch Linnhe in memory of my parents.

For what it's worth, Ballachulish (and Glencoe too, almost as far east as the Kingshouse) was part of Duror parish in the 19th century - and for all I know may still be so, though I doubt it. Duror was a 'quoad sacra' or ecclesiastical parish, part of the 'quoad omnia' or civil administrative parish of Lismore and Appin. Duror had and still has its own Scottish Episcopalian church, or did until very recently - I don't think local people in my great-grandfather's day would have had to trek along the road to Laroch (in the 1851 census Duror village had both an episcopalian minister and schoolmaster in addition to the parish ones; and I'm pretty sure that there were both Chorch of Scotland and Episcopalian churches by the mid-nineteenth century in Laroch - Ballachulish - too). Parish records of baptisms in Appin and Duror go back to the 1760s; but getting your baby's name entered by the local schoolmaster set you back a whole shilling, and I suspect that was more than many of my ancestors, being canny folk, felt they could well afford, at least when they had largeish families! Robert Downie, the laird at Appin House, complained bitterly about this counterproductive thriftiness in an entry in the Register in 1821 - so many local people were (already) emigrating to the colonies, he wrote, and if they weren't able to produce a copy of their entry in the parish register of births, which was the only thing available at the time as a passport, they couldn't prove their identity when they reached the New World; and this apparently sometimes created real problems for them.

I don't actually know what Duncan's letter to the Oban Times was ABOUT; I'll need to check back numbers in the Mitchell Library next time I'm in Glasgow, if they have them. I came across the reference the other week while looking through a decade's worth of correspondance on genealogical issues between my father and Alastair Livingstone of Bachuil.

As for Am Beothach Mollach, Kyle - when I was in my teens a great many years ago I was staggered and delighted to come across a copy of a book called 'Myth, Tradition and Story from Western Argyll' by Mrs K.W. Grant, published at the Oban Times Press in 1925. The book among many other magic yarns contains the not particularly flattering tale of the Hairy Beast of Glen a'Chulish, which I'm sure you will all be familiar with, along with his descendants the Nine Johns - and the resulting family link with Donald Molach of Appin Standard fame, with the rescuing and burial of James of the Glen's bones, and with David Livingstone the explorer. As far as I was concerned, though, the cherry on the icing was to be found in her appendix featuring the Hairy Beast's family tree - with Hugh Livingston, aka Eoghan Ban the tailor, my very own grandfather's grandfather's father, in pride of place as Donald Molach's brother and the great Doctor's great-uncle. Mrs Grant's tree is pretty accurate as far as it goes for the last hundred-plus years it covers; but needless to say there is no contemporary documentary evidence that the various Livingstones including Eoghan Ban whom Mrs Grant names as the Ninth John's sons were indeed brothers - and her tale would carry a little more conviction with an extra generation thrown in at the back end of the eighteenth century. But what ho! It IS a splendid story.

But I have rambled on far too long over these family matters and must be exhausting your patience. Very many thanks again. You can expect plenty more questions from me!

Malcolm Livingstone

[Am Beothach Mollach]

P.S.

I had originally assumed that 'my' Canadian Duncan Livingstone had eventually crossed the border southwards and become the Duncan Livingstone of Ohio who wrote to the Celtic Review about Donald Molach and other subjects - but a quick trawl through the splendid archives here has shown me I got that quite wrong. The real 'Ohio Duncan''s biographer suggests, presumably from recollections of Duncan's own account of his origins, that Donald Molach's ancestors had moved to Morven in the 1600s - a very different story from Mrs Grant's, alas.

Ohio Duncan does seem to have been a thoroughly impressive guy.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Malcolm,
Great to hear from a Western Argyllshire Livingstone with a shared interest in the folklore of our Clan.
There are alot of stories out there. Some information contradicts other information. Sorting the facts from the folklore is alway a challenge. Dr. Livingstone for example was very brief and vague regarding his highland Livingston family origins in his book Missionary Travels in South Africa published in the 1850's. As Livingstone became a legend I suspect this lack of detailed family history and genealogy in the 19th century left it open for those after his death to speculate on his family origins and possible family connections. The forum frequently is contacted by those suspecting kinship with Dr. Livingstone. Indeed almost every Livingstone family I have known has a belief that they are related somehow to Dr. Livingstone.

I am also a great fan of the Grant book. The notion of a possible Ballachulish family connection and the fact that it jives with Dr. Livingstone's own statement that his great grandfather died at Culloden is interesting. I have from time to time speculated on a Ballachulish origin of Dr. Livingstone's family prior to his grandfather Neil Livingston ending up in Lettermore, Mull in the 1770's and subsequently the Isle of Ulva. I have sometimes wondered if Dr. Livingstone's great grandfather who died at Culloden was named John Livingston and was a John Livingston of Ballachulish Estate a Jacobite who served in the Appin Regiment. Unfortunately Dr. Livingstone makes no mention of his grandfather or the family having any other roots than that of Mull/Ulva. I am however not certain that is where Dr. Livingstone's ancestors actually originated and there are a couple of alternative notions to be sure. Regarding the notion that Dr. Livingstone is descended from Nine John Livingstons or Macleas from the Ballachulish area, it is also interesting to note that his grandfather's eldest son was named John and his eldest brother was also named John Livington. It seems to me very conceivable that the great grandfather who died at Culloden was also named John Livingston or Maclea. But then this is nothing more than a speculative venture spawned in the past from reading the Grant book a few years ago I have to admit. It must be very exciting that the Grant book links your ancestor to Donald Livingstone and Dr. Livingstone. I think I missed reading the index. It was a while ago.

Yes the 19th century lawyer Duncan Livingston of Scioto,Ohio was apparently connected to the family of Hugh or Ewen Livingston brother of the famous Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary, Morvern according his article. Duncan knew two nieces of Donald Livingstone who settled in Ohio and other relatives who must of provided some first hand accounts of the family back in Morvern. Among them that there was a brother of Donald named Angus who died in the Battle of Culloden. I recently researched the children of Donald Livingstone and his wife Jane Stewart and discovered to my surprise that most of his family did not leave Morvern nor at least from these children there does not appear to be alot of decendants. I did however get a lead on possible descendants of a son Adam Livingston a miller at Savary in the early 1800's. One of his sons ended up in Lowland Scotland in the late 1800's and he had several sons there could be Livingstone descendants of Donald yet to be found there. There is also a possible Australian and Canadian family connection I have been checking out. See my posting on the children of Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary and his wife Jane/Jean Stewart.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Malcolm,
We will do our best to answer your questions.

Were your Livingstones Episcopalian? I hope I am on right track with that assumption. If so that would make sense that Duncan, your ancestor's brother in Canada was attending the Church of England church in the Sarnia area and not that of the Presbyterians.
Dont know much about the Duror Episcopalians. The Church, St. Adamnans was built around 1848. Before that there are bits a pieces of info to suggest that Duror Episcopalians were baptised at Ballachulish in earlier times . My sense so far is that they did not have a church before 1848 and the Duror Episcopalians or at least of some of them worshiped at St. John's Church in Ballachulish. Perhaps the current minister of the church might have further insight into the history of the local Episcopalians in Duror Parish and what records are available. I think the 1760's referred to a collection of parish records of Church of Scotland that may have included Duror and other area parishes. Early Episcopalian records in Western Argyllshire I am thinking are harder to locate, though we have some connected to St. Johns of Ballachulish.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Malcolm,

The Genealogy chart for the Ballachulish Livingstones of John Livingstone by Alexander Fraser of Laroch in the back of the book, "Myth Tradition and Story from Western Argyll by K.W.Grant is an interesting one indeed. I was familiar with the chapter discussing the Ballachulish Livingstons and Dr. Livingstone's believed ancestral connection to the Nine generations of John Livingstones. I had not seen the genealogy chart before, but at one time after reading the Grant book I began to wonder if David was indeed descended from one JOhn Livingston a tenant of Ballachulish Estate at the time of the 1745 Rebellion who fought with the Appin Regiment.I am not certain that we can be certain that Dr. David Livingstone's line connects with these Ballachulish Livingstones but it is something that I have kept an open mind about and keen interest in for the past few years. I do however have some problems with it. One of the main problems in tryng to substantiate this is that Dr. Livingstone is entirely vague about his ancient highland origins in his book Missionary Travels to South Africa published around 1857. He gives the impression that his Livingstons originated on the Isle of Ulva and that has been verified from surviving parish records, documentation, letters etc to have been the birthplace in 1788 of Dr. Livingstone's father Neil Livingston born in the who married Agnes Hunter in 1810. Neil Livingston the younger was the son of Neil Livingston born in the 1740's presumingly and his wife Mary Morrison.

The parish records fortunately tell us much more that Dr. Livngstone's book and indicate that Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison his grandparents were married in 1774 not in the Isle of Ulva but at Lettermore, Mull near Tobermory not the Lettermore in the Ballachulish much to my earlier confusion. Eventually I realized there were two Lettermores in Western Argyll. Anyways to make a long story short the 1770's parish records indicate that were apparently residing at Lettermore, Mull around the time of the marriage and a few years after where some of their children were born. Following that ended up on the Isle of Ulva I think at the Cave or Cove and by the time Dr. Livingstone's father Neil was born at a place called Ferininardory of which there are several spellings apparently but is a known place on Ulva. RJ. Campbell author of "Livingstone" in the 1920's could not verify that Ferininardory was the Isle of Ulva but looking into it further I have no doubt that Dr. Livingstone's father Neil was born in 1788 on the Island of Ulva and that Ferininardory is or was located on the Island of Ulva. Actually Neil Livingston indicates in the 1851 Scottish Census that he was born on the Isle of Ulva so there is no doubt then that he was born on the Isle of Ulva rather elsewhere in Mull.

What I find quite frustrating about all this is on one hand Dr. Livingstone in his book recalls that his grandfather Neil Livingston was the family story teller who could apparently recall the family history back several generations. On the other hand Dr. Livingstone based what he says in his book he seems to have only a vague notion that the family originated from the Island of Ulva an not much else in terms of the families more distant past in the highlands. He does however give us one interesting detail of his ancestry indicating that his great grandfather (who regretably he does not name) fought and died at Culloden in 1746. Some Dr. Livingstone scholars have challenged this notion and have suggested Dr. Livingstone was mistaken or misinformed. But is so then why? I am of the oppinion that while Dr. Livingstone is suprisingly vague about his ancestors, I do think he would have been well enough informed about his great grandfather's life and his death from his grandfather Neil Livingston. So unless his grandfather was misinformed or himself misinformed the family which I consider probably unlikely given what we know about Neil the Elder, Dr. Livingstone I suspect was correct about this one old family detail. But it is something that cant be proven so I guess it can always be challenged and it does not jive with all the theories out there. I dont know honestly know that the local folklore linking Dr. Livingstone to a family of John Livingston of Ballachulish is correct but I also dont know that is isnt correct. I would disagree with Alexander Fraser of Laroch that Neil Livingston, Dr. Livingstons grandfather was at Culloden. The way I visualise it John Livingston of Ballachulish served in the Appin Regiment at Culloden and was killed. He had a son Neil Livingston born sometime prior to Culloden and this was Neil Livingston born in the 1740's Dr. Livingstone's grandfather. It is pretty certain the Dr. Livingstones grandfather was too young to have participated in the Rebellion as some may have suggested being born sometime in the 1740's more than likely. I know that others have noticed this age decrepancy.

An another interesting thing I realized from the genealogy chart in K.W Grant book. Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) who gained fame at Culloden for rescuing the APpin regiment banner indeed did have a father JOhn Livingston but I think it was a different John Livingston. Alexander Fraser of Laroch is probably mistaken in stating that Domnall Molach (Donald Livingstone) was the son of the John Livingston of Ballachulish said to have been killed at Culloden. It is understood in Movern that Donald Livingstone's father John Livingstone died around 1760 according to his cemetery stone. His son the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary Morvern later a Cattle drover,miller and in his old age and Savary Inn keeper, spent some good money on a elaborate table tomb for his parents and even had a family coat of arms and other decorations included. The Table tomb still survives to this day at Kiel Cemetery in Morvern and a picture of it can be seen in on photo gallery. Judging by the beautiful stone tomb he had created for his parents John Livingston and Ann McInnis, he must have prospered somewhat in the years following the rebellion. And after all these years, though worn with time, it is still a thing of beauty. The photo was taken by the late Donald McInnis of Cumbernauld, former President of the Clan McInnis Society and a McInnis of Morvern origins who was a great admirer of Donald Livingstone and often visited the Kiel Cemetery. Beside the table tomb there is more recent memorial to the memory of DOnald Livingstone of Morvern.

regards,

Donald