Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

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Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Edith Reardon » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:45 pm

Peter Livingston b 1832 Barony, Lanark, Scotland & Jenneta Riddel 1831 in Scotland were the first Livingstons that I know of in my Family in Canada. Riddel is often used for the middle names of the male heirs of Peter. I have not been able to connect all the the heirs but haven't spent that much time on this part of the family tree. My great Grandfather was their oldest son William 1866 followed by Robert 1868, Frank Francis 1874 and they took in a child Jennetta Kesso. The boys married in their mid and late 20's and did not produce a lot of off spring that I can find. Peter and his son Williams had many land grants as far away as Sask.

William's first wife Maggie Fisher b 1869 Lucan Ont. seems to have come out of the blue and I don't have much on her. Susan Withler her mother seems to be unsearchable. Not sure what Maggie died of but she died very young leaving her Son Peter Riddel about 8 without a mother. William remarried it would appear in Manitoba to Lydia Barelay Belle b. 1873 from Quebec they had one son Frank in 1907.

Peter Riddel Livingston 1894 - 1966 died of cancer. My grandfather was a drunk so his father only left him land which he drank away for taxes in the 30"s. His wife Alva Hazel Kindry 1895-1940 died when my dad was 8 or 9. They had 8 children from 1917 to 1930. When she died Peter had 2 more children out of wedlock mother unknown. Alva died of leukemia her parents were Lewis Kendry and Elizabeth (Ellan Glikinson. Alva's mother remarried a man named Charles Tooke. I have a lot on this Hazels side of the family thanks to a distant cousin. I believe one of my great aunts is still but not a good source of information.

Peter Livingston 1832's parents were Neil Livingston born 1776 in Old Kilpk, Dumbnshire, wife Isabella born in 1891 Dumbarton, Scotland

John Niel Livingston1816 –
Mary Livingston (Houston) 1824 –
Charles Livingston1825 –
David Livingston1827 –
Peter Livingston1832 –

Finding anything further except for Neil moving in with his daughter in later years didn't happen yet. If you know of any books or articles on this family or any information past Neil I would be very interested in them.
Edith Reardon
 
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:59 am

Hello Edith,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum. We will take a look at this information you have shared with us and see if we can assist you in making some progress in your Livingstone research.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:28 pm

Hi Edith,

The Canadian info on your Peter Livingston ancestor who settled in Ontario Canada in the 1850's I regret to say differs somewhat from the early information on Peter you mentioned. IN the year 1901 Peter and his wife Janet were living in the town of Baden in Wilmot Township, Waterloo County, Ontario several years before they passed away. In the 1901 Canadian Census in Wilmot Township, Waterloo County, Ontario Peter Livingston's age is given as 70 and birth date he submitted as May of 1830. This would appear to be backed up by his cemetery stone info at the town of Baden's Fairmont Cemetery in Wilmot County, Ontario for Peter Livingston which states that Peter died March 5, 1909 age 78 years 10 months, 9 days. Beside him is the grave of his wife Janet Riddell which states that she died March 10 1909 age 79 yrs, 7 months and 26 days. The 1901 Census indicates she was born July 11, 1829.

I noticed that one researcher perhaps based on this cemetery and census info on Peter Livingston of Wilmot Township, Waterloo County, ONtario circa early 1900's has come to the conclusion that this Peter Livingston was born in 1830 in East Kilbride Parish, Lanarkshire to parents Peter Livington Sr. and Barbara Bright of the Village of Kirkton, in East Kilbride Parish, Lanarkshire. This PEters birth entry in 1830 is not recorded and left blank in the old parish book only his subsequent baptism on July 11th 1830 is recorded beside it. As many of the baptisms on the page are about a month or two from the birth date, a May 1830 birth date is quite probable. One researcher has stated the birth date of Peter Livingston was May 24th 1830 in East Kilbride, Lanarkshire.

The 1881 Canadian Census recorded Peter Livingston as being born abt. 1832 but I suspect that my be a census error.
1881 Mornington Township, Perth County, Ontario
Peter Livingston age 49 b. Scotland Flax manfacturer
Janet age 50 b. Scotland
James age 20 (children all born in Ontario, Canada)
Barbara age 19
Alexander age 17
William age 15
Robert age 13
Francis age 7
This would be your ancestor William Livingston born abt. 1866 and his sibblings Robert, Francis you mentioned plus some of the older family members.

This appears to be your ancestor's family census info from the Scottish Census Records

1851 Kirkton Village, East Kilbride parish, Lanarkshire
Peter Livingston Sr. age 45 (father was a weaver)
Barbara Livingston age 40
Peter age 26 (age obviously wrong)
John age 18
Barbara age 15
James age 12

1841 East Kilbride parish, Lanarkshire
Peter Livingston age 35
Barbara age 30
Peter age 10
John age 8
Barbara age 5
James age 2
Robert age 8 months

In addition to your ancestor Peter Livingston Jr., his brothers John and James also came to Ontario, Canada in the 1850's. Brother John and James you may or may not know from humble beginnings became wealthy in the Flax and Linseed oil business and they lived in Waterloo County, Ontario as well. Both John and James Livingston's bio confirms that they were indeed born in East Kilbride, Lanarkshire and James info states that his father was a weaver there. These famous Ontario 19th century flax and Linseen Oil manufacturers are almost certainly your great Uncles. John later moved to Listowel, Ontario where he lived in a posh manor appropriately named Livingston mANOR. In later years I believe it became a nursing home or old age home. Your Uncle John Livingston of Livingston Manor, Listowel is frequently confused with John Livingstone 1811-1899 a prominent merchant of the town of Listowel and most famous for the being the older brother of Dr. Livingstone.

I realize that this somewhat different from your information but it would appear from documented evidence that your ancestor Peter Livingston was actually the Peter Livingston born in 1830 in Kirkton Village, East Kilbride, Lanarkshire that clearly was the brother of the famous Livingston brothers John and James Livingston from East Kilbride, Lanarkshire who made a fortune in the Flax and Linseed Oil business in Waterloo County, ONtario in later 1800's. Their father was Peter Livingston a Hand Loom Cotton Weaver born December 29, 1805 baptised January 12, 1806 also in Kirkton Village, East Kilbride and their mother was Barbara Bright. Peter Livingston born 1805 baptised 1806 was the son of Peter Livingston and his wife Helen Young of Kirkton, East Kilbride,Lanarkshire. Unfortunately the trail ends at Peter Livington and his wife Helen Young who were born sometime in the latter part of the 1700's. Given that they were the only Livingston family in East Kilbride then known simply as Kilbride Lanarkshire around 1800 they appear to have come from somewhere else. Was this eldest of the Peter Livingston dynasty born elsewhere in Lanarkshire or in Highland Argyllshire? That is the question I just cant answer with lack of information connecting this Peter Livingston and Helen Young to an earlier Livingston family.
I am however able to reconstruct the family of your oldest ancestor Peter Livingston and Helen young of Kirkton Village, East Kilbride or Kilbride, Lanarkshire from the surviving Parish record.
1 John born abt. 1799?
2. Helen born 1801
3.Peter born 1805 baptised 1806 cotton weaver Kirkton, East Kilbride (your ancestor and father of Peter Livingston who came to Canada in 1854/1855 (also father of Flax Mill Kings James and John Livingston of Baden and Listowel, Ontario)
4. Robert b.1808
5. Hugh b.1810
6.Janet b.1811
7.Margaret b.1813
8.Alexander b.1820

Family of Peter Livingston b.1805 Cotton Weaver and his wife Barbara Bright married August 26,1827 Kirkton, East Kilbride, Lanarkshire
1. Rebecca b. 1827
2. Peter b.1830 came to Canada 1854/1855 Flax Oil Manufacturer died 1909 Baden, Wilmott Twp. Waterloo County, Ontario
3. John b. 1833 died 1896 came to Canada 1854 (Buried Fairview Cemetery, Listowel Ontario) Flax Oil Manufacturer
4. Barbara born 1835
5. James born 1838/1839 died 1920 in Kitchener Ontario Came to Canada in 1854 with John. Known as "Ontario's Flax Mill King"
6. Robert born abt. 1840


regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Edith Reardon » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:00 am

I knew there was some sort of connection between Peter and his brothers James & John as my grandfather Peter played on the Flax King baseball team. They owned Livingston linseed oil which was a big company. My grandfather drank away not one but 6 farms for the taxes. He had a new car every year. Just couldn't figure out how they were all related just using the census's and some church records and of course getting the wrong family in Scotland made it even more confusing. I did know that Peter and jennetta moved to Castle kilbride in their old age. I can now add James's picture to my tree and know where he actually belongs..
http://www.castlekilbride.ca/what.shtml I figured I would have to trace the family back from Kilbride Castle maybe. I have a cousin on the other side of the family that lives near there but decided not to ask her to look into it. I will be making a trip east now to take a tour of the castle.
Having so many of their wives die young left big gaps. My only male cousin with the Livingston name died in a house fire with his wife and son leaving only one son about 8 yrs. old. Seems weird that this happened in 3 generations that the mother died when their livingston son's were 8 or 9 years old. There were only 2 male offspring my brother and this cousin.

And I was told at one time that a cousin had traced the family back to Dr. Livingston being a relative. I know now that it was a mistake too and how she accidently did it.

Again thanks for helping me put all the balls in a line. I may have figured out my mistakes at some point but this was much faster and I still have hair left.

Edith
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:32 pm

Hi Edith,
Sounds like we have the right Livingson family you are looking for. They definitely were as you have now confirmed very much into the Flax business. I am very happy to have sorted out any confusion regarding as your ancestor Peter Livingston's actuall family origins in Lanarkshire. This should make your Livingston genealogical project a whole lot easier.

Actually it was a descendant of Dr. Livingstone's brother JOhn who grew up in Listowel that told me about the other John Livingston who lived at Livingston Manor and who was in the Flax Oil business. He mentioned that the two John Livingstons/Livingstones were often confused as they both lived in the the Town of the Listowel in the 1800's. Dr. Livingstone's brother John spelt his name with and e at the end and operated a dry goods store there from about 1860 to his retirement in 1874. He was born in 1811 in Blantyre, Lanarkshire, about two years older than Dr. Livingstone and died well into his eighties in 1899. They are both (John Livingston and John Livingstone) by the way buried in Fairview Cemetery in Listowel, Perth County, Ontario.

Your great Uncle John Livingston (without an e) apparently had quite a nice place for himself in Listowel, Livingston Manor and I think I was told in recent years it was an old age home or nursing home or something like that. I am not familiar with the history of the flax and Linseed oil business that John, James and also your ancestor Peter Livingston Jr. were involved in Waterloo County, Perth County and perhaps other places in Ontario but there are others who know quite abit about the history of James and John in particular. The Curator of the James Livingston's home Castle Kilbride in Ontario may also be able give you idea where to find out more information on James, John and the family. Baden where your ancestor Peter Livingston and his wife Janet Ridell last lived and are buried at Fairmount Cemetery is in Wilmott Township in Waterloo County should you want to visit the cemetery locate and take a photo of the cemetery stone. Someone who maintains the cemetery may be able to provide you with information as tothe precise location if it is a large cemetery. Definitely also worth visiting that Castle Kilbride to see what they can tell you.

There may however not be much info out there regarding the brother Peter Livingston and in his father and grandfather back in Scotland in particular. I assume Peter's grandfather apparently a resident also of Kirkton village, East Kilbride Parish, Lanarkshire in the late 1700's and early 1800's according to the parish records of his children was born sometime between 1770 and 1780 in Scotland possibly in Lanarkshire or even back in Highland Argyll where most of highland Livingstons originated Interestly there is no record of a Livingston family residing in East Kilbride parish Lanarkshire before 1799, so one possible explanation is that Peter;s grandfather Peter Livingston came to East Kilbride Parish and the village of Kirkton from Highland Argyll where there was employment. Many Livingston of highland origin were impoverished tenants and like for example Dr. Livingstone's grandfather were compelled to leave their small tenant farms to find work in the mills in the lowland towns in Lanarkshire Scotland. But I have no way of really determing when and where Peter's grandfather Peter Livingston was born and lived prior to 1799 when his first child was born at Kirkton, Lanarkshire. I just know that he was married a woman named Helen Young and that they appear to have been the only Livingston family residing at Kirkton and in East Kilbride in the late 1700's and early 1800's. Sadly there is also no marriage record for them in Lanarkshire or elsewhere in Scotland which would have been of some help to your family research.

I will see else I can find out.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby jmlivingstone » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:44 pm

Edith/Donald,

A little bit of further information I came across,

1. Charles Livingstone, b. 27 Jan. 1856 son of Peter Livingstone & Barbara Bright, born at Kirkton, East Kilbride, Stat. Birth 643/00 0024.

2. Rebecca Hogg, maiden name Livingstone, daughter of Peter Livingstone & Barbara Bright, died 17 April 1910 at Wellesley Township, Waterloo, Ont., age 69 years.

3. Barbara, b. 1835, had a middle name McBryde.

John
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:56 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for that. So it looks like at least one other family member of this Kirkton, East Kilbride Lanarkshire Livingston family ended up in Waterloo COunty, Ontario, Canada. A sister settled here also. The sister Rebecca. Thats great. Like many Scots they came to Canada with very little and ended up quite wealthy. A lot of 19th century Scottish imigrants made a name for themselves here in both business and government. The notion that the Scottish are both business smart and penny wise may be something a stereotype but it certainly proved to be true in the case of this Livingston family. James literally built a large castle like home for himself and brother John also lived his posh home known as the "Livingston Manor" in Ontario. All from flax and linseed oil.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:26 am

Hi Edith,

Also noticed that Peter Livingston and Janet Riddell were married Nov. 12, 1853 in East Kilbride Parish, Lanarkshire.By the way, take note, September 23th 2012 is the date of the 135th Birthday Celebration at James Livingston's Castle Kilbride. There may be some of your Livingston relatives there.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby Kyle MacLea » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:18 pm

Interesting--would love to get some pictures of the Castle for the Forum if anyone attends!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
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Re: Peter Livingston & Jenneta Riddel

Postby jmlivingstone » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:00 pm

Edith/Donald,

Some more information from East Kilbride, it appears this family had two sons called Hugh, Hugh, b. 15 Apr. 1810, GROS data 643/00 0020 0133, must have died while young, as there is another Hugh, b. 14 Aug. 1814, GROS data 643/00 0020 0169, parents of both are listed as Peter Livingstone & Helen Young.

As you say Donald, there is no marriage record for a Peter & Helen, but there is a record for a Patrick Livingstone & Helen Young at East Kilbride on 18 Feb.1798, GROS data 643/00 0020 0242,

John
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