John Hugh Livingston

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Sandy,

As mentioned I am trying to prove firstly that at Alexander Livingston born abt. 1814 farmer of Whycocomagh, Inverness County, Cape BReton and Colin Livingston born abt. 1818 formerly of WHycocomagh and later of Forest, PEI were brother. Secondly that Alexander and Colin were brothers of John Livingston Jr. of neighburing Mull River. I am assuming that their parents were Mull River pioneers John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore, MUll who apparently left their parish in 1821 for Nova scotia and had a son John, Donald, Alexander and Colin abd settled by 1824 at Mull River.

You should be aware that Dr. James St. Clair of Mull River the Mabou/Mull River historian has no info on ALex and Colin being brothers of your ancestorJohn Livingston Jr. and he has presented what he believes to be the family of JOhn Livingston Sr. and Catharine or Mary Campbell who arrived in 1824 at Mull River, Inverness County, Cape BReton as follows:
1. John Livingston jr. b. 1800 Mull,scotland died ca. 1860 married Kate Livingston (1808-1812) of Nine Mile Creek, PEI
2. Neil Livingston b. died 1858 resided Mull River married Ann Cameron of River Denys
3 Flora Livingston married a MacDonald of Tangiers Nova Scotia
4.. Grace Livingston married Donald McKinnon of Skye Glen
5.Ann Livingston married Richard Worth resided Mull River
6. Mary Livingston married Duncan MacDonald
7. Allan Livingston (may have died young)

Dr. St. Clairs family model is similar with that mentioned regarding John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell who arrived at Mull River in 1824 in the book "The history of Inverness County" published long ago and I think a later published MABOU pIONEERS.

I found nothing on a Neil Livingston brother of John Livingston Jr. but if he died in 1858 in Cape Breton there could be that there simply not much info available on him. We have to keep an open mind that I could be wrong and that ALexander and Collin Livingston of Whycocomagh were not brothers of John Livingston Jr. of Mull River and that John Livingston Jr. of Mull River is not the son of the John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore Mull who had sons John, Donald, Alexander and Colin, but another JOhn Livingston Mull Scotland family that left for Nova Scotia in the 1820's. Only time will tell if can connect your Mull River ancestor with the Whycocomagh Livingstons. I just wanted you know that my theory challenges the prevailing view.


regards,

Donald

[sandylivingston]

Hi Sandy,

As mentioned I am trying to prove firstly that at Alexander Livingston born abt. 1814 farmer of Whycocomagh, Inverness County, Cape BReton and Colin Livingston born abt. 1818 formerly of WHycocomagh and later of Forest, PEI were brother. Secondly that Alexander and Colin were brothers of John Livingston Jr. of neighburing Mull River. I am assuming that their parents were Mull River pioneers John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore, MUll who apparently left their parish in 1821 for Nova scotia and had a son John, Donald, Alexander and Colin abd settled by 1824 at Mull River.

You should be aware that Dr. James St. Clair of Mull River the Mabou/Mull River historian has no info on ALex and Colin being brothers of your ancestorJohn Livingston Jr. and he has presented what he believes to be the family of JOhn Livingston Sr. and Catharine or Mary Campbell who arrived in 1824 at Mull River, Inverness County, Cape BReton as follows:
1. John Livingston jr. b. 1800 Mull,scotland died ca. 1860 married Kate Livingston (1808-1812) of Nine Mile Creek, PEI
2. Neil Livingston b. died 1858 resided Mull River married Ann Cameron of River Denys
3 Flora Livingston married a MacDonald of Tangiers Nova Scotia
4.. Grace Livingston married Donald McKinnon of Skye Glen
5.Ann Livingston married Richard Worth resided Mull River
6. Mary Livingston married Duncan MacDonald
7. Allan Livingston (may have died young)

Dr. St. Clairs family model is similar with that mentioned regarding John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell who arrived at Mull River in 1824 in the book "The history of Inverness County" published long ago and I think a later published MABOU pIONEERS.

I found nothing on a Neil Livingston brother of John Livingston Jr. but if he died in 1858 in Cape Breton there could be that there simply not much info available on him. We have to keep an open mind that I could be wrong and that ALexander and Collin Livingston of Whycocomagh were not brothers of John Livingston Jr. of Mull River and that John Livingston Jr. of Mull River is not the son of the John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore Mull who had sons John, Donald, Alexander and Colin, but another JOhn Livingston Mull Scotland family that left for Nova Scotia in the 1820's. Only time will tell if can connect your Mull River ancestor with the Whycocomagh Livingstons. I just wanted you know that my theory challenges the prevailing view.


regards,

Donald

this might help, quite a difference from what you have. #6 says Mary Livingston married Duncan MacDonald probably should say Duncan Livingston married Mary MacDonald, might be just a coincidence though. anyway here is the family who came from Mull. John Livingston and Catherine Campbell
http://www.mullgenealogy.co.uk/MullSear ... v_no=31772

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Sandy,

Well that John Livingston and Catharine Campbell and family listed in the MUll Genealogy you cite is the one from Penmore Kilninian Parish Mull which had sons John, Donald, Alexander and Colin and whose baptismal entries in Kilninian Parish end at the end of 1820 as if they had left Scotland around 1821 like the John Livingston and Catherine Campbell mentioned in the old 1821 Mull Scotland document that was in the possession of the Whycocomagh Livingston family apparently.

We should at least be able to eventually determine whether John Jr. Alexander and COlin were kin I am hoping then we might be a better position to say one way if the Penmore Livingstons are in fact the John Livingston and Catharine Campbell that settled at Mull RIver or if it was another John Livingston and Catharine Campbell from Mull Scotland. THere was apparently more than one at the time just to complicate things.

regards,

Donald

[sandylivingston]

Hi Sandy,

As mentioned I am trying to prove firstly that at Alexander Livingston born abt. 1814 farmer of Whycocomagh, Inverness County, Cape BReton and Colin Livingston born abt. 1818 formerly of WHycocomagh and later of Forest, PEI were brother. Secondly that Alexander and Colin were brothers of John Livingston Jr. of neighburing Mull River. I am assuming that their parents were Mull River pioneers John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore, MUll who apparently left their parish in 1821 for Nova scotia and had a son John, Donald, Alexander and Colin abd settled by 1824 at Mull River.

You should be aware that Dr. James St. Clair of Mull River the Mabou/Mull River historian has no info on ALex and Colin being brothers of your ancestorJohn Livingston Jr. and he has presented what he believes to be the family of JOhn Livingston Sr. and Catharine or Mary Campbell who arrived in 1824 at Mull River, Inverness County, Cape BReton as follows:
1. John Livingston jr. b. 1800 Mull,scotland died ca. 1860 married Kate Livingston (1808-1812) of Nine Mile Creek, PEI
2. Neil Livingston b. died 1858 resided Mull River married Ann Cameron of River Denys
3 Flora Livingston married a MacDonald of Tangiers Nova Scotia
4.. Grace Livingston married Donald McKinnon of Skye Glen
5.Ann Livingston married Richard Worth resided Mull River
6. Mary Livingston married Duncan MacDonald
7. Allan Livingston (may have died young)

Dr. St. Clairs family model is similar with that mentioned regarding John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell who arrived at Mull River in 1824 in the book "The history of Inverness County" published long ago and I think a later published MABOU pIONEERS.

I found nothing on a Neil Livingston brother of John Livingston Jr. but if he died in 1858 in Cape Breton there could be that there simply not much info available on him. We have to keep an open mind that I could be wrong and that ALexander and Collin Livingston of Whycocomagh were not brothers of John Livingston Jr. of Mull River and that John Livingston Jr. of Mull River is not the son of the John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Penmore Mull who had sons John, Donald, Alexander and Colin, but another JOhn Livingston Mull Scotland family that left for Nova Scotia in the 1820's. Only time will tell if can connect your Mull River ancestor with the Whycocomagh Livingstons. I just wanted you know that my theory challenges the prevailing view.


regards,

Donald

this might help, quite a difference from what you have. #6 says Mary Livingston married Duncan MacDonald probably should say Duncan Livingston married Mary MacDonald, might be just a coincidence though. anyway here is the family who came from Mull. John Livingston and Catherine Campbell
http://www.mullgenealogy.co.uk/MullSear ... v_no=31772

forgot to add this from The History of Inverness County 1922

JOHN LIVINGSTONE.



Mr. Livingstone settled at Mull River in 1824. He was married
to a sister of Allan Campbell, Minister. Their family were: (1) John
who married Kate Livingstone of P. E. I. with issue: John, Duncan,
Hugh, Kate, Jane, Mary, Flora and Ann. Jane married to James
Adams with issue: Alex, Mack, John, Cassie and Grace; Flora, who
married Dougald Adams with issue: Mack, James, John, Cassie and
Minnie; (2) Neil, married to Ann Cameron,sister of the late J.D.Cam-
eron of ' Mabou,with issue: Neil and Catherine; Allan, (3) Flora, Grace
and Ann. Ann married Richard Worth, son of Benjamin Worth Sr.,
one of the first grantees of land at Port Hood, with issue: Benjamin
Jr., John, James, Lewis, Rachel and Hannah. Benjamin Jr. was one
of the most progressive men of his time. He had a firs't class, water,
power saw mill, and did a large lumber business, besides carrying on
farming operations and orcharding in advance of his day. He was
married to a Miss Smith of Smithville, with issue: Smith, Alexander,
Eli, Fulton, John Geddie, Christina, Janet and Bertha. He moved to
British Columbia in 1886 where he died a few years ago.

we know that John Jr was married to Old Kate. From this we see that he was indeed the son of John and Catherine who came from Mull but it doesn't look like the family mentioned in the URL above.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Sandy,

It I understand correctly both the Mull River and neighbouring WHycocomagh Livingstons understood that their ancestor was a John Livingston and Catharine Campbell from Mull but looking the information coming one way or another from the two families and their kin it seems that each family group has a different John Livingston and Catharine Campbell from Mull as their ancestor. I do however find it hard to believe that John Livingston Jr of Mull River and Alex Livingston and Colin? of nearby WHycocomagh were children of two different John Livingstons and Catharine Campbells. I guess that could have happened but it would be an odd coincidence. Still I think that Dr. St. Clair's information has been the prevailing view in Mull River regarding the family for some time now and obviously they would have greater access to the original information than I. Dr. St. Clair discussed the information he had on the families of JOhn Livngston Jr. and ALexander Livingston of Mull River and WHycocomagh whom he knew having grown up i the area, and although he understand that the wives of John Livingston Jr. of Mull RIver and ALexander Livngston of Whycocomagh were Livingston sisters from PEI, he had no reason to believe he stated that John Livingston Jr and ALexander Livngston were brothers. Much of this hunch of mine developed when Dr. St. Clair mentioned that an old 1821 Mull record from Mull officials regarding the departure of John Livingston and Catharine Campbell had been in the possession for many years not in the family of John Livingston Jr. but of the Whycocomagh Llivingson family of ALexander Livingston. My understanding was this was an original document that the family brought with them from Scotland and not a photocopy when I asked Dr. St. Clair. I think Dr. St. Clair however may have acquired a photocopy of the record at a later date and a few years ago emailed the information that on the 1821 document. So then I got thinking does that mean that John Livingston Jr. and Alexander Livingston both had parents named John Livingston and Catharine Campbell from Mull Scotland or were they infact brothers. So hopefully you can see why I began to wonder if there was not a family connection between John Jr. of Livingston Mountain, Mull River/Mabou and ALEXANDER Livingston the farmer at Skye Mountain, Whycocomagh.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Sandy,
No I think that is just a coincidence regarding another McDonald marrying a Livingston. Dr. St. CLair is familiar with the children of John Livingston Jr. and those whom he bellieved were the children of John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell. He did not have them mixed up. A number of McDOnalds in the Inverness County, Cape Breton area married Livingston we have noticed.

regards,

Donald

[sandylivingston]

hi!

I agree with you. it has always been my belief that John Jr bap. 27 June 1808 and Alexander bap. 30 June 1814 were brothers and the sons of John Sr and Catherine Campbell who left Scotland after the last recorded baptismal of Christina on 26 Dec 1820. I don't know what the odds would be that there were more than one John and Catherine with sons John and Alexander who left Scotland for Canada at the same time. I know there were more than one John and Catherine but not with a John and Alexander at least not that i can find.

thanks

John Alexander (Sandy) Livingston

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Sandy,

This is the 1821 Letter of Reference document from Mull Scotland which was in the possession of the Whycocomagh Livingston family of old Alexander Livingston and was copied by Dr. St. Clair. It was my understanding from Dr. St. Clair that the Whycocomagh family had at one time the original copy of this document which would have been issued to John Livingston and Catharine Campbell before their departure in 1821 from Mull. I think you will find this interesting if you have not seen this before. It got me thinking. This was sent to me in 2009 from Dr. St. Clair with his interesting comments.

Letter of Reference written by Donald McArthur Minister of Kilninian (Mull) and signed by Hugh Maclean J.P.

"That the bearer here of John Livingstone and Catharine Campbell, his wife are natives of the United Parish of Kilninian and Kilmore in the Island of Mull, County of Argyll, in which they have lived from their infancy; that so far as I have had access to know they have hitherto maintained an honest and industrious character, free of scandal, or any ground of Church Censure, are members and communicants of the Church of Scotland, and may be received in any christian society where providence shall order their future lot, is certified thi 26th day of April 1821 by
Donald McArthur, Minister of Kilninian
Hugh McLean J. P.

as well payment for their passage is also preserved:
Tobemory 22 June 1821
Received from John Livingstone and family in number nine as below noted thirty pounds no shillings, sterling, being amount their freight per brig ADVENTURE bound of Pictou.
2 upwards of 14 years (John and Catharine)
2 from 8 to 14 years
4 from 2 to 8 years
1 under 2 years

Seems to confirm the family of John and Catharine Campbell.....It is interesting that the date is 1821 and the family is said to have gone to PEI and then come to Mull River (Cape Breton) where Catharine (Campbell's) brother and sister were. Curiously the original document survived in the family of ALexander and Annie Livingstone of Skye Mt. (Whycocomagh) - no explanation as to how or why.

James St. Clair Feb. 24, 2009

THe question then on my mind in 2009 after reading this was why would Alexander Livingstons Whycocomagh family have this 1821 Letter of Reference for John Livingston and Catharine Campbell of Kilninian and Kilmore Parish, MUll Scotland unless this was the family of Alexander Livingston born abt. 1814 farmer at Whycocomagh in the 1800's. But if that was true then the problem remained as to who were parents of John Livingston Jr. of neighbouring Mull RIver said also to be a John Livingston and Catharine (or Mary) Livingston and also of Mull, Scotland. The problem was that the John Livingston Sr.and Catharine Campbell that were the parents of John Livingston Jr. according to Dr. St. Clair of Mull RIvder and others before him did not have a son Alexander b. 1814 or a son Colin born 1818. And so this mystery remains three years later unsolved but with the DNA testing I mentioned we may yet begin to unravel this mystery.

Note this 1821 information records 2 adults and 7 children. The John Livingston and Catharine Campbell from Penmore, Mull had 8 children baptised from 1806 to December of 1820 and then the baptismal entries for them end. I assumed this might be the family of Alexander livingston of Whycocomagh given that this John Livingston and Catharine Campbell had as son ALexander baptised in 1814 as well as a son Colin baptised in 1818 which matched the approximate birth year I had for Alex and Colin Livingstone of Whycocomagh. Secondly the baptismal entried ended at the end of 1820 and there were none recorded in 1821 or thereafter in Kilninian Parish, Mull which would probably be the case if this family had left for Nova Scotia in 1821. I also had no problem with the fact that 8 children were baptised and the family that departed for Nova Scotia had only 7 children. One could have easily died before they departed for Nova Scotia some time earlier.

I then did the calculations working the Penmore Mull Livingston family of John and Catharine Livingston into this equation to see if they could fit the 1821 Mull document information:
2 upwards of 14 (John Livingston and Catharine Campbell)
2 from 8 to 14 years (Mary Livingston (1806), John Livingston (1808), and or (Janet Livingston (1810) (one deceased before 1821)
4 from 2 to 8 years (Donald Livingston (1812), Alexander Livingston (1814), Catharine Livingston (1816), Colin Livingston (1818)
1 under 2 years (Christina Livingston (1820)
To my surprise the Penmore Mull John Livingston and Catharine Campbell family seemed to be a perfect match with the information recorded from 1821 regarding the age of the departing family of JOhn Livingston and Catharine Campbell.

Not sure this is the Mull River family but I could not help but ignore the fact that Whycocomagh Livingstons had this Letter of Reference regarding a John Livingston and Catharine Campbell family that left for the port of Pictou, Nova Scotia in 1821 which is just a few years before Livingstons were said to have settled at Mull River.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

Not sure if this will help or not, according to the OPR's, two John Livingstones married Catherine Campbells in 1805,

1. John, resident of Morvern & Catherine resident of possibly Scarig (very difficult to read), m. 20 Jan. 1805.

2. John & Catherine both resident Penmore, m. 31 Dec. 1805,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

We know that the Mull River settlement was established by the Campbells from Kilninian Parish, Mull Scotland around 1820 who were from Mull and John Livingston's wife was of this Campbell family, so the one certainty is the Campbell-Livingstons families whichever they were originated from Kilninian Parish, Mull. There is just a question of whether there were two John Livingston-Campbell families that settled at Mull RIver and neighbouring Whycocomagh, INverness County, Cape BReton NOva Scotia in the 1820's or not.

regards,

Donald