John Livingstone,Chief Officer of Coastguards

[Burst141]

Thanks for having me into the Group. My Grgrgrgr Grandpa was John Livingstone born on July 22,1828 in Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland. At the age of 14 years old he had joined the Royal Navy.In April 1843 as a Mariner he was stationed in Stranaer, Scotland until 1850 on the Harriet RC, Hawk RC,& Wellington RC. In July 1850 he was stationed at Balleycastle Coastguard Station in Ireland.In March 1854 he was on the Royal George Ship the Baltic Fleet & served for 2 years, receiving the Baltic Medal in May 1857 at the Balleycastle CG Station, in Northern Ireland.In 1862 he was promoted to Commissioned Boatman& transferred to Cushendon CGstation in Coleraine, Ireland.In August 1874 he was Chief Btman in charge at Sutton, Dublin, Castletown, Cork & Kilmicheal, Cork Ireland. In 1855 he married Mary Jones & had a family , a girl Margaret born in 1870, son, James in 1868 in Ireland & my gr grandpa John Livingstone, in 1856 in Scotland. He retired in August 1885, he was 57 years old with 42 years of his life on the Seas. He returned to Greenock Scotland in 1885 & lived their until his passing in May 23, 1906. His son John emmigrated to Canada in 1883 & that is where i come in. We have the original death certificate from greenock register, stating his Father was also a John Livingstone a Seaman who married a Christina Black, but my line stops there!My Grandpa often talked about David Livingstone. Any help would be much appreciated.

[jmlivingstone]

The two links attached should take you to a Post Office Directory, which has John resident at 6, Hay St., Greenock, not 8, as listed elsewhere, & to photos of Greenock as it was up until the early 1970's.
What you are looking for are two photos labelled 11-4-1968 Lynedoch St & 11-4-1968 Lynedoch St. & Hay St., this is the area where your relative lived.

Greenock is my home town, I live about 10 minutes walk from Hay St., one side of the street has not changed much since the 1800's, I'll get a photo of the street next time I pass that way, probably tomorrow, depending on the weather.

Since originally posting, I have checked, & have found that the building where John lived until 1906, is still there, asap, I will get a photo of the building.

I cannot find a John Livingstone -m- Christina Black, I did find a Hugh Livingstone, seaman -m- Christian Black, m. 10 Nov. 1823 in Greenock.

They had a son John, b. 17 July 1828, baptised 31 July 1828 in Greenock West or Old Parish.

The birth certificate has been altered, originally the baby was entered as Hugh, this was scored out, & John inserted in two different places.
It should be pointed out, that it's not uncommon to come across mistakes of this type.

A second son, named Hugh, was born in Greenock, on 27 July 1827, baptised 05 Aug. 1827

I checked from the late 1700's to the mid 1850's, the above are the only Livingstone/Black marriage I can find anywhere in Scotland

I am sure I saw further information on John somewhere else,I'll have a look in the next day or two.


http://digital.nls.uk/directories/brows ... d=85548310

https://picasaweb.google.com/1132533045 ... 4846664978.

As a matter of interest, since immigration to Canada started, Greenock was one of the major ports involved, this lasted until around the early 1970's, when the Canadian Pacific liners stopped calling.

I am not 100% certain that the Livingstones listed above are your family, I have checked every available site that I could access, the above is the only Livingstone/Black marriage I can find at present. Hopefully it will give you some assistance,


John

[jmlivingstone]

Further information on John, the address changes from 6 to 8 Hay St.,as only one Livingstone family are listed in the census returns, it is probably safe to assume it is the correct family we are looking at, the info below is exactly as entered in Inverclyde records.
At present I have no idea if East Blackhall St., where Mary Jones died, was a private address, I will try to find out asap;

The 1901 Scotland census has John resident at 8, Hay St., Greenock, age 75, estimated b. 1826.

Inverclyde Gov. records have the following;

1. Elizabeth, only daughter of John Livingstone, pensioner, died at 8, Hay St.,Greenock, on 17 Nov. 1889, age 24 years. From Greenock Telegraph - 18.11.1889 - See James.

2. James, youngest son of John Livingstone, pensioner, died at 8, Hay St., Greenock, on 28 Dec. 1887. From Greenock Telegraph - 29.12.1887 - See Elizabeth:Mary.

3. Hugh, son of John Livingstone, pensioner, died at 8, Hay St., Greenock, on 26 Feb. 1891, age 24.

4. Mary, wife of John Livingstone, pensioner, died at 9, East Blackhall St., Greenock, on 30 Nov. 1886. From Greenock Telegraph 01.12.1886 - see James.
Marys parents were Richard Jones, blacksmith, & Mary Black, Mary was age 60 at her death.

5. John Livingstone, former chief coastguard, died at 6, Hay St., Greenock, on 23 May 1906, age 80 years.

John

[jmlivingstone]

Some more on John, originally posted by Jewel 2-3 years ago,

John

Re: Randomly Acquired Information
Post by Jewel » Aug 1st, '10, 01:18

Hello to all,

I spent some time going through my files and came across a couple of records that I thought might be of interest to someone. I can't say for sure where I got these records but I think they possible came from Scotlands People if I'm not mistaken. They are Sea records which give name, birth date and birth place . The handwriting is difficult to read but will do my best.

John Livingstone: birth July 22,1828, Looks like place is Greenock, Scotland?

5ft. 8 in. Brown hair Grey eyes fair complexion, no wounds trade Sea.

Ship: Vanguard(?) C.G. Jan.1,1873-Oct.13,1873= promoted Coast Guard
" Oct.14,1873-July31,1874=promoted " "
" Aug.1,1874-Sept.30,1875= ship lost " "
Iron Duke Oct. 1,1875-March 31,1877=paid off " "
" April 1, 1877-July,16,1977 =transferred " "
Topaze July 17,1877-July1, 1878= " " "
Belleisle July2, 1878-Aug.31,1885=shore " "
pensioned: Oct. 8, 1885


Donald Livingstone: born October 28,1849, Tobermorey,Argyll
Occupation Valet or Galet? 5ft. 2in. Lt. Brown hair Blue eyes.

Ship Galatea: April 2-Sept.30. Shore,requested a discharge.

Jewel
Jewel

Posts: 210
Joined: Jul 14th, '09, 02:04

[Canadian Livingstone]

It could be that the person who recorded John Livingstones death record in 1906 got it wrong. John's marriage if it took place prior to 1855 wont list the names of his parents unfortunately. When did John marry Mary Jones I wonder?

Just to recap John Livingstones 1906 death record from Greenock, Renfrewshire:

John Livingston officer coast guardsman retired widower of Mary Jones May 23 1906 6 Hay Street Greenock age 80 yrs
parents John Livingstone "seaman" deceased Christina Black

I checked births and marriages circa 1820's for the entire county of Renfrewshire and both collections of records indicate that Christian Black of old West Greenock, Renfrewshire was the wife of Hugh Livingston and that they were married there 10/11/1823 as John Mentioned. Two children are recorded born to this Hugh Livingston and Christian Black of Greenock are also recorded : John Livingston 31/07/1825 and Hugh Livingston 05/08/1827 No Christine Black in these records for Renfrewshire in the 1820's just Christian Black. No John Livingston or John Livingstone husband of Christian or Christine Black as far as the old surviving Renfrewshire County records are concerned.

I checked the Scottish census records 1841 and 1851 for the parents of the John Livingston who died in 1906 and found no Christian or Christine Livingston nor a Hugh or John Livingston of Renfrewshire who could be John Livingston's parents. It would have been easy to locate Christian or Christine Livingston his mother in the 1841 or 1851 Scottish census or so I thought, but for some reason I cant find her or her husband. I was hoping John's mother was there as to easily locate John's parents circa 1841 and 1851. THe 1851 census information would have proven to be particularly helpful but it like no parents of John Livingston in the Scottish 1841 or 1851 census.

regards

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

His parents names came from his death certificate, it has his father listed as John, unfortunately, nothing is ever that easy, the only marriage that ties in with the dates supplied, is for a Hugh Livingstone & Christian Black.

Apparently John & Mary married about 1855 in Ireland,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

Checked the original birth and baptismal entry for the only John Livingston son of Christian Black from the old parish book for Old West Greenock, Renfrewshire which states at the top of page
year 1825
John Livingston son of Hugh Livingston "seaman" and Christian Black born July 17 baptised July 31

Perhaps it is possible this is not the John Livingston we are looking given the handwritten entry page is for the year 1825 and the name of the father is Hugh Livingston but it is a curious coincidence that this John Livingston's father Hugh Livingston is recorded as being a "seaman" and John Livingstone's 1906 death record records his father as John Livingstone "seaman". Errors constantly crop up in parish records, census records and particularly in family history information. It is a pain, but an inconvenient reality that cant be avoided. And for that matter I am not 100 percent certain that this is the correct John Livingston in the old Greenock parish records just the only one that can be found that comes close to the one we are looking for.

Interestingly there was a Mary Jones who married a John Livingston 20/08/1851 in Kilbride Parish, Bute, Scotland according to the Scottish Parish Parents of John Livingston aren't recorded at this date in the 1850's marriage information unfortunately.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

I totally agree with you, as I said in my first posting on this subject, ref. Hugh Livingstone/Christian Black, I was not 100% sure, they are listed purely as something possibly worth a further look, given the mistakes we have picked up over the years in records.

I noticed last night, the lady who submitted the original post on this subject has a site on Ancestry, which already contains most of the information we have recently posted on this site, including a copy of the original death certificate for John.

There are also a number of other sites concerning John, no two of which can agree on who John married/where he lived etc., etc.

I suspect this is another bit of Livingstone research that will not go much further back in time, John appears in valuation rolls/post office directory & census returns early 1900's, + earlier coastguard paperwork.

I reckon what you found on the Bute marriage would possibly be worth a bit of further research,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

This is a tough one indeed. I could not find John's parents in the 1841 or 1851 Scottish census which is big obstacle to determining identifying where they were after 1827 when they were in old Greenock. Perhaps the parents left Scotland before 1841. Has anyone located them after they resided in Greenock in the 1820's. I have this entry from the original Kilbride Parish, Bute Scottish Parish records which indicates that a Mary Jones and a John Livingston were married 20/08/1851 which conflicts with the information that they were married in 1855. I could not find parish birth or baptismal records for any of their children born or baptised in Scotland which was also disappointing. I have not seen the family research you have found which may provide some clues to this mystery.

By the way if you are puzzled as to what what snp subgroup of P312 our Livingston ancestors belong to so am I. It probably hasnt been identified or available as a test as yet buy may be in the future. We are definitely descended from an old family group connected to a predominant Mclea or maconlea family that resided in the mull and neighbouring Movern Parish area in the 1600's and1700's and before that elsewhere in Western Argyll I am 100 per cent certain with a likely Celtic dalriada origin but the details are a bit of mystery. You may have noticed a dna connection to some descendnants of Fergusons which is interesting because some of the Fergusons in Scotland trace their family origins to and old family of Fergusons that lived in Western Argyll and who according to their historic traditions were a connected to Fergus of the Dalriada who settled in Western Scotland long ago. While there are historical and family info that traces many of the participants in our dna group to Mull and Morvern, it is my theory that prior to the 1600's our family group resided elsewhere possibly in the Appin or Achnacree area or nearby to these communities where are early members of our clan resided. I looked into the possibility that our group could have the descendants of Picts that were residing near the Island of Lismore when St. Molaug arrived in the 6th century but I have not heard that the dna results for our group are a close match for any of those families elsewhere in Scotland where Picts were suspected to live in great numbers that have been tested in the past. So I think that we can rule out Pict origins for dna group. I wondered if we might be descended from Norsemen that made Western Argyll there home, but I have no information that our Livingstone results show any indication of being particularly nordic. So it is still a mystery to me who precisely are early ancestors in Western Argyll were except that that they seem to be a family of Dalriada colonists from ancient Ulster who arrived in Western Argyll as early as the 6th century AD.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

One sure thing, this will never be out of my mind, I pass the street & house where John lived every day, it's about 10 minutes walk from my house, enroute the town centre.

DNA is a complete mystery to me, I rely on getting explanations from Kyle if required.

John.