Daniel & Mary Livingstone, Michigan

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,
Updated.
I have found most of birth/baptismal records for the family of Archibald Livingston and Janet MCLean who I am certain now are the grandparents of your Daniel Livingston. According to information in the 1841 Census at Bothwell Parish they were borh born abt. 1771 which is probably just an estimate.

Surprisingly the birth and baptismal records of the family of Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean in Glasgow CIty are quite well documented. Check this out. One of these children must be Daniel Livingston's father I would presume.
THese are mostly birth records but some of the church of Scotland ministers included a baptismal record for some of the Livingstons listed here.
Archibald Livingston married Janet Mclean July 27, 1788 in Glasgow Parish, Glasgow City. Sometime before the 1841 Census they arrived in Bothwell Parish, Lanarkshire
All born and baptized in Glasgow City according to the Glasgow City parish records to Archibald Livingston gardener and Janet Mclean
1. Alexander Livingston born October 8, 1789
2. Catharine Livingston born October 24, 1791 baptized October 30,1791 of Gramarton?
3. James Livingston born July 1, 1795 baptized July 7,1795 of Gramarton?
4. Isobel Livingston born June 6, 1797, baptized June 10,1797
5. Duncan Livingston born July 6, 1799 baptized July 7, 1799 of Gramarton? witness Dun Livingston Duncan later married to Marion Hamilton, resided in Bothwell District
6. Robert Livingston born March 13, 1802 baptized March 21, 1802 "Uncle Robert" mentioned in Daniel Livingston and Catharine ANderson's son Daniel's 1860 birth record. Alexander and Duncan Livingston witnesses (Robert Livingston born in Glasgow according to 1861 Bothwell Census) Robert married to Janet (Jean) Cullen
7. Daniel Livingston born July 13, 1804
8. Archibald Livingston born May 30, 1806 witness: Alexander Livingston
9. Janet Livingston born December 14, 1807
10. Basil Livingston born April 2, 1810?
11. William Livingston born April 2, 1810?
12. Daniel Livingston born April 2, 1810?
13. Archibald Livingston born August 31, 1811?
Not certain why but I checked out the original parish records and for some reason in 1810 and 1811 there are some children of Archibald and Janet who have records in the 1810-1811 period with names that come up earlier in the birth records. THey are recorded clearly as birth records so I cant quite figure this out, unless the other born earlier died young and later children born were given their names. I have come across this type of scenario once before with a Livingston family but I dont know if this is the case but that does not explain why three of them listed all were recorded with the same birth date. Some sort of mistake by the CHurch of Scotland minister in 1810 I am thinking.

This is large list of a large family but I am convinced that one of these sons of Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean is your unknown Daniel livingston's father. We know from the census records that Daniel at the age of 15 was living with his grandfather and grandmother Archibald Livingston and Janet Mclean in Bothwell Parish at the time the 1841 Scottish Census was taken. It is not known when Archibald and Janet left Glasgow parish for Bothwell Parish. THe Scottish census in the 19th century commenced in 1841 and done every 10 years after that. The 1841 census is not as detailed as subsequent census records in terms of detailed information regarding birth place, but I discovered in the 1851 census that Daniel's "Uncle" in Bothwell Parish was born in Glasgow around 1800-1803 and the birth date given in the Glasgow records is 1802 which is pretty close to 1803 which was the aproximate year I got from one of census records for Robert. Finding what appears to be a near complete collection of the birth and some baptismal records as well of what looks like the entire family really surprised and delighted me. Often they are not complete for an entire family group like that.
Looks like your ancestor Daniel Livingston had a lot of relatives on his Livingston side of the family and clearly the name Daniel and Archibald are popular names amongst Daniel's Livingston kin as you can see from the records I have posted in my messages.

The fact that some of these Livingstons located in the Glasgow parish records are of a clearly old Livingstone family that lived in Glasgow as far back as the 1600's challenges the notion that all the Livingstones in Lanarkshire were of later 18th century highland Livingstone origin. Clearly Lanarkshire with it mills was an attraction to impoverished crofters of highland Argyllshire including Livingstons but it is clear from these old Glasgow City Livingston records that there was an old family or famlies of Livingstons well estalbished in old Glasgow town well before the 1700's. This will be a source of research for me on these Glasgow Livingston for the future as I am also researching an old families of Livingstons that I come across in Fifeshire from time to time that also have no doubt an interesting lowland Scotland history.

Despite all this information and progress made in indentifying the origins of your Livingstons I have not determined which son of Archibald livingston and Janet Mclean is Daniel's father which is disappointing. I dont think this family group is connected to Dr. Livingstone's family because for one thing their ancestors were likely living in Glasgow, Lanarkshire before Dr. Livingstone's family or the highland livingston families settled in Lanarkshire in the late 17oo's from highland Argyllshire.


regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,

No trace of the other Uncles and Aunts of Daniel in Bothwell Parish during the 1840's 1850's and 1860's but at this time his Uncle Robert b. 1802 his wife Janet and family as well as another Uncle Duncan b. 1799, his wife Mirrian? (Marion Hamilton) and family can be found residing in Bothwell Parish. In 1841 Census we briefly see Archibald Livingston and his wife Janet McLean residing at Crossgate, Bothwell Parish. They disappear from the records and I assume they died sometime between 1841 and 1851. Later in 1861 Census we see his son Duncan and his wife Mirrian (Marion Hamilton) is also residing at Crossgate, Bothwell Parish. In 1841 "Uncle" Robert Livingston is at Bellshill, Bothwell Parishl and brother Duncan is at Muirhead, Bothwell Parish. As mentioned in 1841 Daniel Livingston eight years before his marriage to Catharine Anderson is residing with his grandfatther and the father of the above mentioned Bothwell Parish residents Robert and Duncan Livingston both according to the 1851 and 1861 census born in Glasgow as their birth records indicate the sons of Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean What happened to the other children of Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean including the father of your ancestor Daniel Livingston is not known, but I am pretty certain that old Archibald livingston and his wife Janet MClean who he was living with in 1841 according to th e 1841 Census in Crossgate, Bothwell Parish, lanarkshire is his grandfather and Robert and Duncan Livingston of Bothwell Parish two of his Uncles.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,
Beginning in the year 1855 in Scotland detailed records of births, marriages and death were collected. Before birth and marriage records where found contained just the basic info and death records few and far between. With luck I found that Daniel's "Uncle" Robert and Duncan Livingston of Bothwell Parish, Lanarkshire who both died after 1854 were included in these detailed death records having died in 1890 and 1868.
I was able to find death records for Daniel's "Uncle" Robert Livingston and the other Uncle Duncan Livingston residents of the Bothwell Parish. The death records verified that both Livingstons were sons of Archibald Livingston gardener and Janet MCLean who your Daniel Livingston was living with in the 1841 Scottish census. The information was very helpful in proving what I suspected that Robert and Duncan Livingston born in Glasgow and residing in Bothwell Parish in the 1840's 1850's and 1860's when your Daniel was living there was the son of Archibald Livingston and Janet Mclean formerly of Glasgow and later of BOthwell Parish.

District of Bothwell, County of Lanarkshire
Robert Livingstone occupation Railway Engine Cleaner died November 8, 1890 age 86 yrs. at Bellshill, District of Bothwell
Parents: Archibald Livingstone gardener and Janet McLean

Jean Livingston married to Robert Livingston Foreman of Locomotive cleaners died October 11, 1873 age 78 at Muirmadkin, Bothwell District
Parents: James Cullen and Janet Sharp

Duncan Livingston Stone breaker widower of Marion Hamilton died August 9, 1868 age 70 at Bellshill, Bothwell District
Parents: Archibald Livingston gardener and Janet Mclean

Interesting to see in the death record and census information that Duncan also worked for the railroad as did Daniel

regards,
Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,
I was trying to get a sense when the Livingstons ended up in Bothwell Parish and looking for another Archibald Livingston in the family group.

Robert Livingston the "Uncle" referred to the birth record of Daniel Livingston and Catharine Anderson's son Daniel jr. born 1860 in Bothwell Parish seems to have been in Bothwell Parish Bellshill at least as early as 1825.

Found this one early birth record from Bothwell Parish.

Robert Livingston weaver and Jean Cullen a son Archibald Livingston born March 10, 1825 in Bellshill, Bothwell Parish, Lanarkshire

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi ALisa,

The Archibald Livingston that you mentioned a while back that lived in Michigan and he stated that Daniel's daughter was his niece is interesting. You are quite right that only apparent Archibald Livingston he could be is the one that lived in Saginaw, Michigan in the 1870's and 1880's was born abt. 1835 in Scotland. He cant be Daniel's Uncle Archibald as if he was alive in 1870's or 1880's would have been too old. I am not sure you agree with this but my feeling is that he is a brother of Daniel as I have found two of Daniel's Uncles and a list of the rest of them and I am pretty sure if it is the Archibald Livingston born 1835 and residing in Saginaw Michigan that refers to Daniels daughter as a niece this Archibald is a brother of Daniel. There are always missing records and I have discovered that Scottish birth records for Daniel and his sibblings are clearly missing either from Blantyre or wherever Daniel's parents were residing during the 1820's and 1830's. Clearly this is why it has been so difficult locating information on Daniel and his siblings. If Daniels' birth record from the 1820's is missing from the Lanarkshire records then it is possible that his other sibblings including his younger brothers are missing. Daniel could have been born in Blantyre as he states in the census information and his birth info and that of his sibblings is simply missing for whatever reason. This happens from time to time in searches I have done in the past. I just try and work around it with whatever I can find as I have done here.

Your ancestor Daniel Livingston does mention in his 1851 census info that he was born in "Blantire" and I have not forgotten that fact. Now that we have what I believe is a near complete list of all of the children of Daniel's grandfather whom he lived with Bothwell Parish in 1841 but who originally raised this family prior to the 1820's apparently in Glasgow city, I assume that Daniel's father was one Archibald and Janets sons. Not Robert because we know that he refered to an 1860 baptism in Bothwell as an "uncle" of your Daniel. And probably not Robert's proven brother Duncan from his death record that also lived in Bothwell Parish at the same time as your Daniel livingston. It terms of the early 19th century info out of Blantyre there was a couple residing in Blantyre at the same time as Dr. Livingstone's family a Daniel Livingston and mary Riddell who I noticed some time ago only have one birth entry for all the children they likely had in Blantyre. What is interesting is that Daniel was also the name of one of Archibald and Janet Livingston's sons. So I am curious if this Daniel livngston married to Mary Riddell could have been Archibald and Janet's son and your Daniel Livingston's father.

As I may have mentions some months ago there were several Livingstons working in BLantyre in addition to Dr. Livingstone's parents in the early 1800's according to the baptismal records. Some we have speculated come be related to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather's brothers born in the 1770's and 1780's in Mull, but it is also clear that not all of the Livingstons that worked in Blantyre originated from Dr. Livingstone's family or even from the highlands. In studying the glasgow parish records it is clear that there was an old group of Livingston families residing in Glasgow city and probably elsewhere in Lanarkshire that resided in Glasgow and in Lanarkshire for centuries prior to the settlement of highland Livingstones in industrialized Glasgow and Blantyre by the late 1700's and early 1800's when we start to see an influx of highlanders many from Argyllshire into Lanarkshire finding work in the mills. I wish I had more family information on this Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell to see if he was born in Glasgow and if there is any chance he was the son of Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean. We know from one baptismal record that he and Mary Riddell were residing in Blantyre in 1819 but the question is where they in Blantyre in the 1820's when your Daniel Livingston states he was born abt. 1826. If so they must of had other children presumingly born in Blantyre that for some reason are missing from the records. It is clear to me that your ancestors records are missing from the Blantyre parish records and that Daniel Livingston and mary Riddell are certainly possible parents for one other reason and that is now one has speculated or linked them to any other Blantyre family and I have always where they came from and who they were connected to. Perhaps they originated in Glasgow and are connected to Archibald Livingston and Janet McLean. Certainly the information if have found shows that Daniel Livingston is a name associated with Archibald Livingston's Glasgow City family. My hunch is that Daniel Livingston who lived in 1819 and possibly the 1820's in Blantyre and was married to Mary Riddell was Daniel's father but of course with only one 1819 birth record I cant prove he is Daniel's father. I also have wondered prior to this what happened to Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell. We now know from the 1841 CEnsus that your Daniel at the age of 15 was living in BOthwell parish at a place called crossgates with Archibald and Janet Livngston, his grand parents. His uncle Robert and Duncan also are living in the parish. I think the question is why was young Daniel living with his grandfather and not with his parents at this early age. Did this have any thing to do with the Daniel Livingston and mary Riddell of Blantyre's disppearance in the later records. No doubt there is a reason why Daniel was living with grandparents in Bothwell where his grandparents, and two Uncles lived apparently since the 1820s. We dont know when Daniel arrived but it may have been before he was 15. I do think if Daniels birth information from BOthwell in 1851 census is correct and was born in Blantyre as he states then Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell recorded only one single 1819 Blantyre baptismal record are certainly possible parents of Daniel. If there is any chance that one of Archibald Livingston and Janet Mclean's son briefly lived in Blantyre as your Daniel Livingston's 1851 Bothwell parish census info suggests then I dont think we can rule out Daniel Livngston and mary Riddell as having been Daniel's parents. If only I had proof.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,

All of this recent info I consider my second attempt at researching your ancestor Daniel Livingston. Perhaps it might be helpful at this point to summarize my current thoughts on Daniel Livingston which vary to some degree from some of my earlier thoughts of last winter. I know that much of this runs in a contrary direction from I think where you were going in February of 2014, but hopefully it will be of some help to your research and hopefully clarifies rather than confuses things.

1. I think it quite clear that Daniel Livingston was residing in Bothwell Parish according to the 1841, 1851 and 1861 Census and perhaps a some years before that.

2. His 1851 Census record in Bothwell Parish interestingly states he was born in Blantyre. He was during the time of the 1841 census residing with an elderly Livingston couple Archibald Livingston and Janet (Mclean) Livingston originally from Glasgow in Crossgate, Bothwell Parish. So for some reason he had presumingly left Blantyre to live with his grandfather. WHy, what happened to his parents and his other sibblings and who were her parents are questions we are left with. Regarding his family we know that he lived with grandparents at an early age for some unknown reason and that his Uncle Robert who was witness at the baptism of Daniel's son Daniel in 1860 also lives in Bothwell Parish as does a second Uncle named Duncan.

3. I think quite likely that Daniel had sibblings including a younger brother Archibald born about 1835 who like Daniel settled in Michigan. I think Daniel may have been encouraged to settle there by Archibald perhaps. It may be that Archibald was not financially successful in Michigan but I do not think that suggests he could not be a brother of your Daniel. Almost everyone has poor relatives or family members who experience hard times. Clearly he refers to Daniel's daughter as niece. So I dont think we should not overlook the obvious before considering alternative scenarios. THere are a few Daniel Livingston and Archibald Livingstons in the Scottish baptismal records I agree but I do not think you are finding two brothers Daniel and Archibald that we are looking for and for that matter other sibblings of Daniel because these births and baptisms which likely took place are for unfortunately missing from the Blantyre parish records.

4. I have seriously considered the view we both share that Daniel was born in Blantyre about 1826. He stated this in his 1851 Bothwell Parish census information I think it was. I think it quite likely an accurate statement as best we can tell. Being familiar with the several Livingston families that were residing in Blantyre in the early 1800's having done a study on these families before in my Dr. Livingstone research, I cant help but wonder if your Daniel Livingston was a son of Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell who we know from one single 1819 baptism record resided in Blantyre and probably in the 1820's at the time of Daniel's birth. THe first thing I do know about Daniel Livingston and Mary Ridell apart from the fact they resided and apparently worked in Blantyre is that most of their childrens birth records are missing including those in the 1820's and 1830's. Presumingly they had more children in Blantyre than the one recorded in 1819. And that Daniel and Mary had a son they called Daniel seems a logical thing for them to do and seems to me quite possible this son was born in Blantyre in the 1820's. And if he had younger brothers and the family was connected as i argue to Archibald livingston and Janet Mclean then it is almost certain one son also born in Blantyre could have been named Archibald. I think we both suspect or believe Daniel and archibalds birth records are missing and I think the missing records are for the children of Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell. In any event this one possible explanation given the fact that your Daniel himself stated he was born in Blantyre to a family of Livingstons who resided there in the 1820s'.

5. While I have not made much progress regarding Daniel himself, I do think I have found his grandparents in Bothwell parish, Lanarkshire
Archibald Livingston and Janet Mclean who were originally from Glasgow City, lanarkshire where they married in 1788 and had a large family there. Later probably in the 1820's or 1830's they ended up in Bothwell Parish Also found the Two sons Robert Livingston and Duncan Livingston who were also living in Bothwell Parish. Archibalds son RObert we know from a baptism record of one his children was in Bothwell Parish as early as the 1820's and we also know from the baptismal record of Daniel Livingstonn in 1860 the son of your ancestor Daniel Livingston and his first wife Catherine Anderson that Daniel's " Uncle" Robert Livingston was a witness to this baptism. So this Livingston family originally of Glasgow City origin is where Daniel's ancestry is connected. And looking at the birth records of these Glasgow City Livingstons over the years they go way back and appear the oldest Livingston family in Glasgow predating the later highland Livingstone settlement in Lanarkshire in the late 1700's as impoverished highland crofters came to Lanarkshire looking for work in the mills.

regards,

Donald

[Bede Livingston]

Donald,

Thank you so much! I am going to examine all of the record information and see if there is anything in my personal family account that matches up in any way. It makes me so very happy to have new possibilities.

Alisa

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Alisa,
The only problem with the notion that Archibald Livingston and Janet Mclean originally of Glasgow city had a son Daniel that married a Mary Riddell and Daniel and Mary had a son Neil born in 1819 in Blantyre is that according to the birth records Daniel was born in 1804 to Alexander and Janet and he would be fairly young only 15 or 16 in 1819 when this Neil Livingston son of Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell. What is curious though and somewhat interesting is that I think I found Mary Riddell's birth record in the Glasgow City parish records born in the 1790's at the same time as Alexander and Janet children were born and Ridell and Livingston families are in the parish record book at this time. In fact a birth search for Mary Riddell gave me four possiblilites to of which were in East Kilbride, Lanarkshire and the other two one for 1794 and for 1797 in Glasgow City both birth pages which include Livingston births. It is quite likely that both these Mary Riddells and her family lived amongst old Glasgow Livingston families and one of them likely married the Daniel livingston that I find was the father of a Neil Livingston born in 1819 in Blantyre. However as mentioned as luck would have it Archibald and Janets son Daniel his birth recorded in the same parish book from Glasgow as these Mary Riddells is if the info is correct significantly younger than them and would of only been as mentioned 16 or even 15 at the time of the Blantyre 1819 birth which is the sole one recorded for a Daniel Livingston and mary Riddell in the old Blantyre parish records. Interestly i do suspect this Daniel Livingston whoever he was and from what ever family he came from likely married a Mary Riddell almost certainly one of these from Glasgow City and this Daniel as luck would have it may be another Daniel Livingston perhaps born in Glasgow city and a relative of your Daniel's father whoever he was. The timing and location and the name Daniel made sense but the fact that Archibald and Janets son is probably too young to be the father of Livingston boy born in 1819 to a Daniel Livngston and Mary Riddell and also the fact that both the Mary Riddells I found from Glasgow one born 1794 and 1797 are somewhat older than archibald's son suggests I am likely wrong. Sorry to say. But I think it was an interesting hypothesis had it not run into problems. I dont see any connection to other
Livingston families that were in Blantyre at the time so I am pretty much in the dark as we have no birth record for him from Blantyre. Anyways not sure that Daniel Livingston and Mary Riddell of Blantyre had son born in the 1820's Daniel or that this Daniel who married Mary Riddell (no surviving marriage records) was the son of Archibald and Janet Livingston of Bothwell Parish and formerly Glasgow City.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi ALisa,
THere is in fact a Michigan death record for Archibald Livingston in 1895 born abt. 1835 in Scotland but it does not unfortunately list the parents of Archibald which would have been helpful in linking him to family back in Scotland. Often 19th century U.S. death records if they exist at all are often very brief with little or no details.I think some significant pieces in this puzzle regarding Daniel have been found but there are still important pieces missing. Not being able to find Daniel's parents I focused on the grandfather and the establishing that the two other Livingstons residing in Bothwell besides the grandfather were in fact sons of the grandfather and Daniel's uncles. I cant find any trace of the other Uncles in the census records.

regards,

Donald

[Bede Livingston]

Hi Donald,
I went the same place you did, thinking wouldn't it be nice if Uncle Archie's Father's name was on his death record. If the connection is family lore, I know it was taken seriously. In the scant few items given my Mother by her Mother's Family are extremely worn "In Darkest Africa" volumes 1 and 2. In fact, they are falling apart. One map is missing, and one I can tell has been referred to over and over again. 1890 is after Daniel's time by 3 years. They were given to my Great Uncle who gave them to my Mother by Lizzie Livingston Brownlee's son Earl. I am keeping the faith that the answer is out there somewhere. Even now, thanks to perseverance, and everyone's kindness I know more than I ever thought possible.
Alisa