My paternal grandmother, Sybil Lily (known as Antionette) MacLeay, was born on 31st October 1901 in Chateauneuf de l'Ille et Vilaine in Brittany, France. She was the first-born child of Donald MacLeay and his wife Eleanor Noble. Their first son, Donald George (known as George) MacLeay was also born there. His date of birth as 5th June 1903.
Eleanor Noble was born in 1878 in Clerkenwell, London. In the registration record of the birth of George MacLeay both his parents are described as being English subjects each aged 29 years; though this does not stack-up with his mother Eleanor's birth registration record. Other family members believe Donald Macleay (Senior) was born on 24th August 1975; again this does not stack-up with the information recorded in the France.
All I know is that my grandmother's parents married somewhere in the Channel Islands (because his father would not bless his marrying an English women) before moving to live in France by the time my grandmother was born in 1901.
Does anyone know anymore about my great-grandfather Donald MacLeay born sometime in the mid-1870s?
Donald Macleay born c.1875
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Donald Macleay born c.1875
Hi,
I am unfortunately not seeing much info on your Donald Macleay who you state married Eleanor Noble. I was unable to find a marriage record. There is one detailed posting on ancestry.com which probably contains the basic info on Donald Macleay and Eleanor Noble's family which includes Antonie, Donald George, Jean (John), Alfred and Nellie who were all born in France from 1901 to 1911. It also includes the names of the spouses of the surviving children of Donald and Eleanor who ended up in Australia with their mother I assume. I think the assumption is that this Donald Macleay died in Europe (France?) by abt. 1915 or before. I could not find any death records for your Donald Macleay. I was wondering if he may have gone back to Britain during the war and died in World War 1. I found one Donald Macleay born in Inverness who died in 1917 and died or is buried in Flanders, France but I dont think this is your Donald Macleay. I found a Donald Macleay in the census record who was born in Inverness who I suspect may be the one who died in 1917 but he appears to have been a Donald Duncan Macleay born abt. 1882 or thereabouts in Inverness and probably not your ancestor. I also noticed from a death certificate that your Antoinette Lilian, Sybil Macleay wife of Oliver William Horn retired Shop Proprietor died April 25, 1982 at Enfield a London Borough and was born October 31, 1901 in France according to this 1982 record. Donald Macleay's daughter Antoinette Macleay and Oliver William Horn were married January 29, 1925 in London, ENgland and the marriage record only record a father Donald Macleay for Antoinette.
I also am not certain of the information that your Donald Macleay was born in Perthshire, Scotland in 1875 or thereabouts. I could find not birth records for a Donald Macleay born in Perthshire for that time period. Most of the Macleays particularly those in the 1800's named Donald Macleay resided primarily in Rosshire and a few in Invernesshire. A check of the birth records shows that there were two Donald macleays both fisherman born in 1877 at Barvas in Rossshire one the son of John Macleay and Ann McDonald and the other son of ALexander Macleay and Isabella Mcdonald. I checked their marriage records, one married a Mary Martin in 1905 and the other married a Margaret McDonald in 1906 so they can be ruled out as being your Donald macleay. THere was Donald Macleay born in Fodderty, Rosshire in 1878 or 1880 but appears in the 1901 census at Fodderty and does not appear to be your Donald Macleay. There is one other Donald Macleay born abt. 1877 who lived at Applecross, Rossshire but I have other info on him except that appears in the 1881 Census. All the other Rosshire Donald macleays can be accounted for and not the Donald macleay that married Eleanor Noble who remains a mystery to me and probably to you as well. It seems likely he was born in the 1870's in Scotland but I just dont see any info of a Donald Macleay born in Perthshire in the 1870's or for that matter a Macleay family residing in Perthshire around the time of Donald's birth year. I am wondering if your Donald Macleay died in World War 1. I dont have expertise on Australian Livingston or macleay genealogy and there are likely some folks in Australia with a lot more knowledge and access to those records. I was looking at some of the earliest Livingstone records in Australia the other day from the 1830's and as far back as 1824. Apparently there were several Livingstone families settled in New South Wales by the 1830's and a few before that. Sorry I cant be of more help.
regards,
Donald
I am unfortunately not seeing much info on your Donald Macleay who you state married Eleanor Noble. I was unable to find a marriage record. There is one detailed posting on ancestry.com which probably contains the basic info on Donald Macleay and Eleanor Noble's family which includes Antonie, Donald George, Jean (John), Alfred and Nellie who were all born in France from 1901 to 1911. It also includes the names of the spouses of the surviving children of Donald and Eleanor who ended up in Australia with their mother I assume. I think the assumption is that this Donald Macleay died in Europe (France?) by abt. 1915 or before. I could not find any death records for your Donald Macleay. I was wondering if he may have gone back to Britain during the war and died in World War 1. I found one Donald Macleay born in Inverness who died in 1917 and died or is buried in Flanders, France but I dont think this is your Donald Macleay. I found a Donald Macleay in the census record who was born in Inverness who I suspect may be the one who died in 1917 but he appears to have been a Donald Duncan Macleay born abt. 1882 or thereabouts in Inverness and probably not your ancestor. I also noticed from a death certificate that your Antoinette Lilian, Sybil Macleay wife of Oliver William Horn retired Shop Proprietor died April 25, 1982 at Enfield a London Borough and was born October 31, 1901 in France according to this 1982 record. Donald Macleay's daughter Antoinette Macleay and Oliver William Horn were married January 29, 1925 in London, ENgland and the marriage record only record a father Donald Macleay for Antoinette.
I also am not certain of the information that your Donald Macleay was born in Perthshire, Scotland in 1875 or thereabouts. I could find not birth records for a Donald Macleay born in Perthshire for that time period. Most of the Macleays particularly those in the 1800's named Donald Macleay resided primarily in Rosshire and a few in Invernesshire. A check of the birth records shows that there were two Donald macleays both fisherman born in 1877 at Barvas in Rossshire one the son of John Macleay and Ann McDonald and the other son of ALexander Macleay and Isabella Mcdonald. I checked their marriage records, one married a Mary Martin in 1905 and the other married a Margaret McDonald in 1906 so they can be ruled out as being your Donald macleay. THere was Donald Macleay born in Fodderty, Rosshire in 1878 or 1880 but appears in the 1901 census at Fodderty and does not appear to be your Donald Macleay. There is one other Donald Macleay born abt. 1877 who lived at Applecross, Rossshire but I have other info on him except that appears in the 1881 Census. All the other Rosshire Donald macleays can be accounted for and not the Donald macleay that married Eleanor Noble who remains a mystery to me and probably to you as well. It seems likely he was born in the 1870's in Scotland but I just dont see any info of a Donald Macleay born in Perthshire in the 1870's or for that matter a Macleay family residing in Perthshire around the time of Donald's birth year. I am wondering if your Donald Macleay died in World War 1. I dont have expertise on Australian Livingston or macleay genealogy and there are likely some folks in Australia with a lot more knowledge and access to those records. I was looking at some of the earliest Livingstone records in Australia the other day from the 1830's and as far back as 1824. Apparently there were several Livingstone families settled in New South Wales by the 1830's and a few before that. Sorry I cant be of more help.
regards,
Donald
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pakamacpanther
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:04 am
Re: Donald Macleay born c.1875
Dear Donald,
Thanks for your reply and your research; but sorry that, like me, you have not turned up any documentary evidence of my great grandfather Donald MacLeay's birth, marriage or death. I too have not found any record of his birth in the Scotland, England or Wales BMD Indexes or Censuses. This makes me wonder whether either he was born outside Britain or if Donald was not his first given forename.
The entries recorded on ancestry.com are helpful but not entirely correct. The French website geopatronyme.com shows that 4 children were born in France between 1891 and 1915 with the surname MacLeay. 2 were born in the commune of Châteauneuf in the département of Ille et Vilaine. The other 2 were born in the communes of Magnières, Meurthe et Moselle and Saulxures sur Moselotte, Vosges. This information tallies with the ancestry.com entries.
The birth registrations in Châteauneuf of Antoinette (recorded with given names Sysil Lily) MacLeay in 1901 and Donald George MacLeay in 1903 can be viewed at the website archives-en-ligne.ille-et-vilaine.fr. The entries for the other 2 communes are not available on-line but probably relate to my grandmother's 2 other brothers John and Alfred MacLeay; Alfred died in infancy though She also had a younger sister, Nellie MacLeay who may have been born in Luxembourg rather than France.
I have been told the Donald MacLeay died of tetanus in France in 1915 while jointly working with the French and British armies as a translator. As far as I know, he did not return to Britain to formally enlist. His wife, Eleanor Noble, returned from France to live in London with her surviving children following the outbreak of war. In 1917 she gave birth to my grandmother's half-sister Cecile in Barnet. Her father's surname was Billot.
Soon after my grandmother married in 1925, her brothers George and John emigrated to Australia arriving in Freemantle in 1926. They had been living in New Southgate in north London. Their emigration was followed in 1929 by that of their mother and 2 younger sisters. Eleanor Noble's parents had previously emigrated to Australia in 1909. All remained in Australia until their deaths. So, I must agree with you, that may main hope for more information about Donald MacLeay will probably have to come from Australia.
Thanks for your reply and your research; but sorry that, like me, you have not turned up any documentary evidence of my great grandfather Donald MacLeay's birth, marriage or death. I too have not found any record of his birth in the Scotland, England or Wales BMD Indexes or Censuses. This makes me wonder whether either he was born outside Britain or if Donald was not his first given forename.
The entries recorded on ancestry.com are helpful but not entirely correct. The French website geopatronyme.com shows that 4 children were born in France between 1891 and 1915 with the surname MacLeay. 2 were born in the commune of Châteauneuf in the département of Ille et Vilaine. The other 2 were born in the communes of Magnières, Meurthe et Moselle and Saulxures sur Moselotte, Vosges. This information tallies with the ancestry.com entries.
The birth registrations in Châteauneuf of Antoinette (recorded with given names Sysil Lily) MacLeay in 1901 and Donald George MacLeay in 1903 can be viewed at the website archives-en-ligne.ille-et-vilaine.fr. The entries for the other 2 communes are not available on-line but probably relate to my grandmother's 2 other brothers John and Alfred MacLeay; Alfred died in infancy though She also had a younger sister, Nellie MacLeay who may have been born in Luxembourg rather than France.
I have been told the Donald MacLeay died of tetanus in France in 1915 while jointly working with the French and British armies as a translator. As far as I know, he did not return to Britain to formally enlist. His wife, Eleanor Noble, returned from France to live in London with her surviving children following the outbreak of war. In 1917 she gave birth to my grandmother's half-sister Cecile in Barnet. Her father's surname was Billot.
Soon after my grandmother married in 1925, her brothers George and John emigrated to Australia arriving in Freemantle in 1926. They had been living in New Southgate in north London. Their emigration was followed in 1929 by that of their mother and 2 younger sisters. Eleanor Noble's parents had previously emigrated to Australia in 1909. All remained in Australia until their deaths. So, I must agree with you, that may main hope for more information about Donald MacLeay will probably have to come from Australia.
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Donald Macleay born c.1875
Hello again,
It is a tough one. Yes some of your relatives in Australia may be able to provide some info pertaining to Donald Macleay. Have you checked all sources for a copy of the original British Army records from World War 1 which might contain the information you mentioned regarding Donald Macleay? That information sound to me likely correct but probably worth while seeing if you can obtain all of Donald's military info that is the military archives. Sounds like some of might be in the British Archives but some might be in France.
regards,
Donald
It is a tough one. Yes some of your relatives in Australia may be able to provide some info pertaining to Donald Macleay. Have you checked all sources for a copy of the original British Army records from World War 1 which might contain the information you mentioned regarding Donald Macleay? That information sound to me likely correct but probably worth while seeing if you can obtain all of Donald's military info that is the military archives. Sounds like some of might be in the British Archives but some might be in France.
regards,
Donald