Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

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RaeReyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by RaeReyn »

Hi, I'm new to the forum and was hoping someone might be able to help connect the missing pieces to our family tree. I'm from Australia. My family has some old paperwork that states that our ancestor Samuel Livingstone was a cousin of David Livingstone the explorer. We have quite an old portrait of the Dr and Livingstone has been passed down as a second name. Here is what I have:-

Samuel Livingstone b. approx 1812 M. 1841 Colmonell Elizabeth Walls b. 1812 (seen as Wallace and Wells)
Robert Dowie Livingstone b. 1844
Mary Livingstone b. 1846 m. 1864 Victoria, Australia John Dalgleish d. 1939 NSW, Australia
Samuel b. 1848 Kirkoswald
Anne b. 1851 Maybole
John b. 1853 Maybole
Alexander b. 1856
Ann b. 1858

I can't seem to find much on Samuel's parents. I've searched on and off for about 12 months and seem to have hit a block. I think Samuel died in Forbes NSW Australia in 1862. I can't find anything in Australia about his wife though. I'm told that Mary Livingstone (Dalgleish) immigrated with her brother. I believe this is Robert and that he died in Armidale NSW in 1892.

From the Scot side, all I know is that our Livingstones were from Ayrshire as I haven't been successful finding anything more on Samuel.

Would appreciate any help.

Cheers,
Rachael
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by jmlivingstone »

Rachael,

Scotlands People have the birth of Samuel at Kirkoswald, Ayrshire on 09 July 1848, they list his mother as being Elisabeth Wells, on a later certificate this changes to Walls.

You can obtain copies of the certificates from Scotlands People at a cost.

There is also an Alexander b. 04 Mar. 1856 at Maybole, Ayrshire.

As you have two Annes, one born Coylton, 1851, the second born 19 or 30 Apr.1858, possibly at Coylton, Ayrshire, christened 11 May 1858 at Maybole, it is probable the first one died at some point between 1851 & 1858.

John.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Rachael,
Please note I have updated this message following more information gathered and after my second message below this one.

I don't think you will find information on Samuel Livingston or Levingston's parents in the Scottish Parish records unfortunately because there does not seem to be surviving birth or baptismal records for Samuel Livingston in the Scottish Parish records in Colmonell, Maybole, Sorn, Machaline Parishes or anywhere else in the Ayrshire. For reasons unknown his birth record and that of a brother Thomas appear to be missing among the records of his probable sibbilngs that I did find I believe. I do however believe that he was born in Ayrshire just that the record of his birth and baptism no longer exists for some reason. But all is not lost I believe in terms of identifying who Samuel's mother and father were and I think have done just that by other means than his birth record which does not exist.

One source of information on Samuel, the 1851 Scottish census indicates that Samuel Livingston or Levingston is an agricultural laborer is residing at Weavers Vennel, Maybole, Ayrshire age 27 and born in Colmonell, Ayrshire. That suggests he was born as late as 1824, although I don't know how accurate that info is. My sense is that is not accurate at all regarding his age in the 1851 and his birth place as Colmnell. I will get to that in a minute. The Parish marriage records agree with what you stated that married Elizabeth Walls in Comonell, Ayrshire November 29, 1841. I now believe that Samuel's Parents were residing elsewhere in Ayr Parish at the time of their marriage and it was not until the sometime before about 1820 that they settled in Colmonell Parish in Ayr.

I think I may have found possibly some light at the end of the genealogical tunnel regarding the parents of Samuel Livingston. It challenges the notion from the 1851 Census info that Samuel's family was residing in Colmonell possibly when he was born and I still cant find his birth record but I think I may have found Samuel's likely parents none the less. You mentioned that Samuel had a son Robert Dowie Livingston born in 1844 (13/01/1844 in Colmonell Parish, Ayr. This records verify that his son Robert's full name was indeed Robert Dowie Livingston and I assumed that could his father's Samuel's mother's name as I knew it was not Samuel's wifes' maiden name which was Walls.

As it turns out a JOhn Livingston married an Agnes Dowey on July 26, 1807 in Sorn Parish, Ayr. Eventually I was to find out that they lived in Sorne parish for at time, then nearby Machline Parish and then sometime before 1820 they were ended up in Colmonell Parish where John Livingston died probably in the 1830's and where the widow Agnes Livingston lived for many years with her youngest daughter Agnes (Mrs James Wilson). Her son Samuel and his family before going to Australia lived in nearby Maybole Parish.

John Livingston and Agnes Dowie's eldest son was interestingly also named Robert Livingston and he was born may 22, 1808 also in this Sorn Parish, Ayr, next is William Livingstone born December 3, 1809 at Machline Parish, Ayr and a daughter Mary Livingstone born August 10, 1811 also in Machline Parish, Ayr. Samuel Livingston or Livingstone is not listed unfortunately but I do think he was in this family and a son of John Livingstone and Agnes Dowie also spelt in the records Dowey. Another son Thomas is also not listed with a birth record I discovered. With this theory is unfortunately only a theory it would explain why Samuel named his son Robert and why his middle name was the family name Dowie or Dowey. You have stated that Samuel Livingston was born abt. 1812 and that also would fit within the range of this family of John Livingstone and Agnes Dowie or Dowey born in the early 1800's. The 1851 Census while helpful in locating Samuel his family in Colmonell, Ayr before they went to Australia seems to contain some factual errors I am thinking which unfortunately sometimes happens in Census records. My hunch is that the age given to your ancestor Samuel Livingston is much younger than he actually was and his actual birth date may closer to what think it is. Unfortunately I have no way of proving your 1812 date is the more correct birth date unless you have some information in the Australian records like census or a death record for Samuel which could help verify the early 1812 date. Anyways I am wondering if it is possible that Samuel's mother was a Dowey or Dowie. My sense is that John Livingston and Agnes Dowie were Samuel's Parents but I admit this is somewhat speculative based on what think are a couple of clues I have mentioned. I do think that Samuel's given age of 27 in the 1851 Census in Maybole, Ayrshire which would make him born abt. 1824 may not be correct and does not match your birth date of abt. 1812. Nor do I think the 1851 Census info that he was born in Colmonell is correct though Samuel's suspected parents John Livingston and Agnes Dowie appear to have been married in Sorn Parish in 1807, some years following that live in Machaline Parish and later Colmonell Parish in Ayr from what I can tell. His suspected mother Agnes Livingston also known by her family name Agnes Dowie by family lived in her later life in Colmonell Parish. Her husband John Livingston an agricultural laborer appears to have died in Colmonell Parish in the 1830's.

In the 1841 Scottish Census Agnes Livingston householder employed as a grocer is recorded as age 54 and being born in Ireland and living in Comonell Parish, Ayr She is living with her youngest daughter Agnes Livingston age 15 and Sarah Strom age 49. Not sure who Sarah Strom is. In the 1851 Census Agnes Livingston is recorded by her family name "Agnes Dowie" age given 68 and place of birth given as Armagh, Ireland and residence in 1851 is Colmonell Parish. In her final census of 1861 Agnes Livingston age given is 80. Place of birth is Ireland and she is living with her daughter Agnes and her husband James Wilson in Colmonell Parish, Ayr at a place called in Colmonell Parish called Holefittes.

According to her death record Agnes Livingston widower wife of the late John Livingston agricultural labourer, died on April 17, 1866 at the age 88 yrs in Colmonell Parish at Holefittes. Her late parents recorded in her death record were listed as Robert Dowie and Catharine Marshall. Where they lived is not stated. It is not known when Agnes and her parents came to Scotland just that she was born in Armagh County, in the North of IReland in the 1780's and not in Scotland.



I regret to say I have no information of an Ayrshire Livingston connection to Dr. Livingstone's family.


regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Rachael,

Bingo!!!! Cant believe there are clues later on in Colmonell Parish according to the 1841, 1851 and 1861 Scottish census records I did not see before I reallized that that this Agnes Dowie wife of John Livingston was probably Samuels' parents even no birth or baptism record of that survived. Well there are to my amazement.


I found the widower Agnes Livingston also referred to as Agnes Dowie by her family in Ayrshire, a native of Armagh Ireland born in the 1780 in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 Census sure enough in Colmonell Parish where son Samuel Livingston was residing before he left for Australia. She is residing with a daughter Agnes and later with Agnes and her husband James Wilson in Colmonell Parish. I am not sure as yet when she died but she was recorded as age 80 in the 1861 Census apparently the last census before her death presumingly sometime between 1861 and the next census of 1871 which does not seem to be recorded in at Colmonell Parish, Ayr. This can't be a coincidence In the 1851 Census her family amazingly actually refer to her as Agnes Dowie and not Livingston which gave the proof I was looking for that this elderly lady is the Agnes Dowie who married a John Livingston in Sorn Parish, Ayrshire way back in 1807. And this is the almost certainly the mother of your Samuel Livingston who had a son Robert Dowie Livingston born in 1844. A little deductive reasoning was neccessary here because of the missing birth and baptismal records for your ancestor Samuel Livingston but I am pretty confident that this old lady actually born in Armagh in the North of Ireland in the 1780's, was his mother and his father was her late husband John Livingston I mentioned in the previous message. Agnes Livingston is a widow before the 1841 Census so I have no idea when her husband John died but it must have been perhaps in the 1830's.



regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Rachael,

In conclusion this is what I believe to be the probable family of your Samuel Livingston although he has no surviving birth or baptismal record connecting him to this family.
I have identified what I understand to be 6 children of John Livingston and Agnes Dowie or Dowey of Colmonell Parish, Ayr. They may of had more children but these were the ones I have identified as their children or likely their children.

John Livngston or Livingstone and Agnes Dowie or Dowey married July 26, 1807 Sorn Parish, Ayr (Later lived in Machline Parish and finally Colmonell Parish in Ayr which they seemed to have arrived a few years before 1820 probably.
1. Robert Livingston (coal miner) born May 17, 1808 Baptized May 22, 1808 in Sorn Parish, Ayr died March 2, 1900 Kilgrammie, Dailly Parish, Ayr m. Elizabeth McDowall June 3, 1838 in Girvan Parish, Ayr (Robert's death record verifies that parents were John Livingston and Agnes Dowie)
2.William Livingston born Dec. 3, 1809 in Machline Parish, Ayr (no further info on William)
3. Mary Livingston born August 10, 1811 Machline Parish, Ayr
4. Thomas Livingston born abt. 1816 Colmonell Parish, Ayr died April 10, 1904 in Cairn house Maybole Parish, Ayr married Elizabeth Caitens or Catens Sept. 18, 1840 in Colmonell Parish, Ayr ( 1904 Death record states parents were RObert Livingston and Agnes Dow should read John LIvingston and Agnes Dowie)
5. Samuel Livingston birthdate? married Elizabeth Walls Nov. 29, 1841 in Colmonell Parish, Ayr
6. Agnes Livingston birthdate? born Colmonell Parish, Ayr died August 27, 1903 at Tachor in Barrhill District, Ayr, married James Wilson May 26, 1844 in Colmonell Parish, Ayr Agnes Livingston (Agnes Wilson) living with mother Agnes Livingston in 1841 Census in Colmonell Parish. (1903 death record verifies that parents were John Livingston and Agnes Dowie)

There were a number of Dowies residing in Sorn Parish in Ayrshire in the early 1800's including a Samuel Dowie when Samuel's father John Livingston married Agnes Dowie. I am suspecting they all related in some way in that parish. I have noticed some Dowies in Scotland seem to be of Irish origin as is Angnes according to her birth place origin info included in her Scottish census records. As you may have noticed there are next to no Samuel Livingstons in the Ayrshire records with the exception of your Samuel Livingston. I suspect then that Samuel was named after a Samuel Dowie that was connected to the Dowies in Sorn Parish, Ayrshire.

regards,

Donald
RaeReyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by RaeReyn »

Donald, you're amazing! Thank you so much! I'm so overwhelmed and extremely grateful for your research and the information provided. I'll keep digging and see what else my mother has. Sorry for my late reply.
RaeReyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by RaeReyn »

Yes, Donald. I had found info saying that Samuel was born in 1824. It was my mother who found info to state that Elizabeth Walls and Samuel Livingstone both married at the age of 29. I have to agree, not all census records are correct so I'm more leaning towards 1824. I don't think it was uncommon for them to marry young back then.
RaeReyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by RaeReyn »

Hi John,

Yes, we believe Anne born in 1851 died hence the birth of the second Ann.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Rachael,

A case of when your missing the vital family piece in the puzzle you focus on locating the other pieces in the puzzle if they can be found and in doing so reconstruct almost all of the original family. Without your Robert Dowie Livingston information though I would never have focused on a probable "Dowie" family connection with Samuel's parents which sure enough seems to be very much the case. So your Dowie clue led me in the right direction. It seemed likely it was a family name of some significance to your Livingston kin in the 1800's.

regards,

Donald
RaeReyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:47 pm

Re: Cousin connection to Dr David Livingstone

Post by RaeReyn »

Thanks, Donald. Unfortunately, I haven't had much luck in clues or middle names other than Dowie. I think I may have found a further step but I'm not confident with it. This is now what I have.

Archibald Livingstone b. ? m. ? d. ? Spouse Katharine Thomson
+John Livingstone (??) b. 1772 Kilbirnie, Ayr m. 1807 Agnes Dowie Sorn, Ayrshire
++Agnes Livingstone
Robert Livingstone b. 1808 Sorn, Ayrshire
William Livingstone b. 1809 Mauchline, Ayrshire
Mary Ann Livingstone b. 1811 Mauchline, Ayrshire
Thomas Livingstone b. 1816 Colmonell, Ayr
Samuel Livingstone (??) b. 1824 Colmonell, Ayr m. Elizabeth Walls d. 1862 Forbes, NSW Australia
+++ Robert Dowie Livingstone b. 1844
Mary Livingstone b. 1846 Ayrshire m. John Dalgleish d. 1939 Parkes, NSW Australia

++++ Mary Livingstone Dalgleish b. 1872 Wickliffe, Victoria Australia m. Gustav Adolph Oswald Wurfel
(GGG grandparents)

Samuel Livingstone b. 1848 Kirkoswald
Anne Livingstone b. 1851 Coylton
John Livingstone b. 1853
Alexander Livingstone b. 1856
Ann Livingstone b. 1858

After this, I'm good with the tree. Where can I purchase records? There's so many sites but there's some that I'm not sure are legitimate.

Thanks,
Rachael
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