Introducing Myself

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Introducing Myself

Postby bcbrit » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:04 pm

Hello there,

My husband and I were given a very unique Christmas present this year. We were given a Y-DNA 111 kit from FamilyTreeDNA. My husband has donated his saliva, and the kit has been returned for processing. And fingers crossed, I hope I did everything right to get it in the Livingston/MacLea DNA project.

My husband is a direct male descendant from Neil Livingston and Margaret Woodhouse, of Port Monteith, Scotland. I know from this forum that there are other descendants. I have been researching my husband's lines and mine for almost twenty years, on and off as life allows.

Neil Livingston and Margaret Woodhouse.
William Livingston 1799-1888 and Isabella Bremner 1793 - 1876
Neil Livingstone 1824 - 1890 and Annie Campbell 1822 - 1911
William Livingstone 1852 - 1899 and Ellen Vercoe Uren 1865 - 1886
William Vercoe Livingstone 1886 - 1968 and Laura Mary Locke 1896 - 1980
Raymond Livingstone 1920- 1989 and Melinda Caroline McLaren 1926 - 2015
My husband

Now we just have to wait for the results.

Ruth
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby D.W.Livingston » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:54 pm

Welcome Ruth. That is very exciting and can't wait to hear what the results find.
Also there is another forum area here called "DNA Project" that I am sure would love to hear the results also.

Have an amazing week.
David
David Wyse Livingston
Tucson, Arizona, United States
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby Greg Livingston » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:44 pm

Welcome, Ruth. Please do keep us posted on your results.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby jmlivingstone » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:39 am

Ruth,

Something I saw, was a Neil Livingstone b. 19 Dec 1803 at Balfron, Stirlingshire to Neil Livingstone & Margaret Woodhouse.

Assuming this is the correct family,as you have another Neil b.1824 listed, it's probable this Neil died when he was young.

Balfron - Port of Menteith is a short distance, about 11 - 12 miles.

http://www.brebner.com/uploads/bre00551.pdf

The above link may also be of interest,

John
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:12 pm

Hi Ruth,
Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum. Yes indeed we have heard from at least two people that I can think of over the years at the forum here connected to this Port Monteith Livingston family you are referring to.

This is actually a Livingston Perthshire family that the Clan Society has some familiarity with as one of the participants in our Maclea Livingstone DNA project is a descendant of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner originally from the Port of Monteith, Perthshire family you mentioned. I don't have their family tree handy but we should be able to locate it. I do know that their branch of this family left the Perthshire around 1821 I think it was for Upper Canada. Sometime later not sure when the family of our Maclea Livingstone DNA Project participant settled in the U.S. where they currently live. The DNA Project participant who did the test several years is also descended from William Livingston and Isabella Bremner who settled in Upper Canada (present day Ontario, Canada) in 1821.
William Livingston joined his wife Isabella Bremner, her father George Bremner and brother George Bremner Jr. who resided in Perthshire, Scotland and were part of Doane Emigration Society that sailed on the "David of London" in May of 1821 destination the port at Quebec. They then settled in Lanark |Township, Lanark County, Upper Canada (Ontario, Canada) and by 1850 William Livingston and his family were residing in Grattan Township, Renfew County, Canada West (Ontario, Canada). William died February 19, 1888 in Grattan Twp. Renfrew Co. Ontario and Isabella died August 14, 1876 and are buried in the Admaston Cemetery in Renfrew Co. Plot # G6. I have left a message with one of our long time Clan members Suzanne Livingston who has a great deal of expertise regarding William Livingston and Isabella Bremner and family that you have arrived at the forum.

regards,
Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby livingstoneancestry » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:04 am

Hi Ruth

I'm actually descended from William and Isabella too... I sponsored my brother for the DNA testing. I know growing up we were told supposedly we're related to Dr David Livingston but still havent found it ... although apparently we are related possibly to another Dr David Livingstone, Dr David Leslie Livingstone. who I believe is a descendent of Isabella Bremner but her 1st marriage, she has a son Hugh, Hugh wasnt William's son but has the Livingstone name

William Livingston/e & Isabella Bremner
George LIvingstone & Louisa Naismith (his 2nd wife)
James Livingstone & Effie Lash
Lawrence Livingstone & Mary Lyda Roth
Donald Livingstone & Mary Radish
me

Here's another link I found with info on our family

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onlan ... ivingstone

I believe we're related either directly or by marriage to almost everyone in the Admaston Protestant Cemetery and the Douglas Cemetery, or at least it seems that way


Suzanne Livingstone
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:36 pm

Hi Suzanne,
Are you ready to help solve a mystery?
I was looking back at earlier discussions regarding John Bremner Livingston born 1852 in Grattan Township, Renfrew County probable grandson of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner. You may recall this earlier discussion. Some confusion in the records, but I think the confusion is largely in his 1931 death record where looking at the original copy the witness was not clear at first and wrote" not known" regarding the parents of John Bremner Livingston. Then another person scribbled in mother Jean Bremner and William Livingston and stating both were born in Lanarkshire. My feeling is that information is incorrect and that those who witnessed his death in 1931 were uncertain who John's parents were. It is certain that John's parents were not born in Lanarkshire and not born in Scotland. His grandparents WIlliam Livingston and Isabella Bremner came to Canada way back in 1821.The Census information from Grattan Township, Renfrew only tells us that his mother was Jane Livingston born abt. 1832. who for many years was living with William Livingston and his wife Isabella Bremner. I speculated that this Jane might have been the daughter in law of William and Isabella Livingston and that that her husband was an unknown son WIlliam Livingston Jr. but I think that unlikely and in any case there is no information anywhere to support that notion. So I return to my original thought that Jane Livingston born 1832 was the daughter of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner. I think that a number of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner researching also have assumed that Jane Livingston was their daughter. Note that some researchers have suggested that there is another named Jean Livingston based probably on information in the 1851 Census but it is the Scottish way to use Jean or Jane as if it was the same name. My own Scottish relatives referred to one of their daughters both as Jean and Jane in the census records. So John Bremner Livingston's mother was probably referred to as Jane or Jean.

First of all my impression from the census records is that Jane Livingston born abt. 1832 probably when the family was residing in Lanark County, Upper Canada was the daughter of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner was the mother of John Bremner Livingston born in 1852. In John's 1931 death record it makes sense she referred to as Jean which Jane would sometimes be referred to as, but not sure why her last name given as Bremner in 1931? Anyways here is Jane and her son John in the Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Census records over the years. I thought perhaps you could take a look at the census info and make sense of a mystery.

1851 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Canada West
William Livingston age 53
Isabella Bremner age 58
[b]Jean Livingston age 20 probably Jane Livingston [/b]
George Livingston age 18
Ann Livingston age 15
John Bremner age 1 1/2 ?

1861 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Canada West
William Livingston age 60
Isabella Bremner age 67
George Livingston age 27
Jane Livingston age 29 ( probable mother of John B. Livingston marital status not given)
John Livingston age 8[/b]

1871 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
William Levingstone age 71
Isabella Levingstone age 78
Jane Levingstone age 39 ( probable mother of John B. Livingstone marital status not given)
John Levingstone age 19

1881 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
William Livingstone age 82
Jane Livingstone age 49 (probable mother of John B. Livingstone marital status not given)
John Livingstone age 28
Jane Livingstone age 16 (wife of John B. Livingstone)


1891 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
John Levingston age 39
Jane Levingston age 25 (wife of John B. Livingston)
Willie Levingston age 8
George Levingston age 7
Cattie Levingston age 5
May Levingston age 2
Jane Levingston age 59 (mother of John B. Levingston, recorded in census as mother of head of household and recorded as widow)

1901 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County, Ontario Canada (excerpt)
John B. Livingstone age 48 (Birth date included in 1901 Census July 13, 1852)
Jane Livingstone age 35


1931 Certificate of Registration of Death for John Bremner Livingston
John Bremner Livingston died June 30, 1931 York County, Ontario
Buried Prospect Cemetery
Born July 13, 1852 in Ontario
Parents Not Known:then subsequently written on document Parents William Livingston born Lanarkshire, Scotland
and Jean Bremner born Lanarkshire, Scotland none of which I believe is probably incorrect. I suspect this document may be the source of some confusion regarding the names of John's parents that and the fact that are few clues in the census information either. Your suggestion that the informant may be confused with the information regarding the ancestor William Livingston and his wife Isabella Bremner of Perthshire, Scotland and their settlement in Lanark County, Upper Canada in 1821 seems very plausible.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby livingstoneancestry » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:36 pm

Hi Donald

I'll definitely look at my family tree and the censuses. its funny you asked, I was just looking at a prior discussion on Jean/jean just yesterday.

If I remember correctly there are 2 Jean/Jane(s) born around the same time, and they get mixed up occasionally


Suzanne
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:30 pm

Hi Suzanne,
That may be the case. The only reason I noticed it was when I did an ancestry.com search for Neil Livingston and Ann Campbell's tree and noticed on some family trees for William Livingston and Isabella Bremner they have both Jean and Jane Livingston as being children of William and Isabella and both born in the year 1832. I just wondered if perhaps they noticed their daughter referred to as "Jean" in the 1850 Census and in subsequent census records as Jane and assumed that Jean and Jane were two different daughters. I could understand that because I had a Scottish relative years ago I was researching who in Canada was referred to as Jane Reid but in the Scottish records as Jean Reid and that confused me no end until I eventually discovered Jean and Jane were the same person. I had another relative referred to as Ann in the records and on occasion Nancy. And then there are Dutch American New York ancestors and their kin with Dutch nicknames. Fortunately I found a Dutch American nickname chart which was a big help.

The other thing about that info in John's 1931 death info is the person states that his parents a Livingston and a Bremner were born Lanarkshire. His mother living with him when the 1891 Census had taken place was stated as being born in Ontario and John states all of this info this census where he is the householder. By stating that John's parents were William Livingston and Jane Bremner I wonder if the person who submitted this information for the death certificate was confused about his grandparents William Livingston and Isabella Bremner. But if that is the case they were born in Perthshire weren't they? I am not certain who John's father was I am not certain that Jane or Jean Livingston was not William and Isabella Livingston's daughter. The 1851 and subsequent census records certainly suggest that possibility. And who is the John Bremner age 1 1/2 who appear in the 1851 Census and is living at the William and Isabella Livingston residence? Lots of information here but it somewhat confusing to understand.

Another thought I am adding to this message as an afterthought is that perhaps they had a vague notion that the Livingstons (William Livingston and his wife Isabella Bremner) settled originally in 1821 at the Lanark settlement in Lanark County, upper Canada and got Lanark in Upper Canada mixed up with Lanarkshire in Scotland and possibly Lanarkshire mixed with Perthshire and ultimately that it was John B. Livingston's grandparents that were Livingston and a Bremner.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Introducing Myself

Postby jmlivingstone » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:05 pm

Suzanne,

I see from FTDNA you have a Donald Joseph Livingstone, who has a genetic distance of 7 from myself, & a most distant ancestor Neil Livingstone b.c. 1769, Scotland.

I was recently reading the quote below on FTDNA, & while I do not pretend to understand genetics, I was wondering if you had any further information available on Neil.

Quote from FTDNA on a genetic distance of 7 ;

‘’Probably related.

A 104/111 match indicates a more distant genealogical relationship. Over half the matches at this level are related as 10th. cousins or closer. Most matches at this level are related as 16th. cousins or more recently.’’,

John.
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