Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone family

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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue May 17, 2016 6:31 pm

Hi Garland,

I am not sure about the timeline on this map except that it it later than Map 0139. Most interesting it that it now shows Donald as being located not west of Nine Mile Creek but on a lot beside Allan Livingston. Again suggesting they are family. THe linkage of these two was the major accomplishment the second major research effort on Allan Livingston. That and discovering he and his son Allan located in the area of Duncan Livingston's lot and that widow named McInnes on the oldest map. Allan is pretty much in the same location as before give or take, so we can prett much establish from these maps the probable location of his farm which looks to me to be east of Nine Mile Creek.
Map 4176
http://www.islandimagined.ca/fedora/rep ... d%3A208678

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed May 18, 2016 12:18 am

Hi Garland,

I must correct myself on one thing. You mentioned that you were closely related to a Ralph Livingston. I was confusing him with another Ralph Livingston with PEI roots. Yes on September 10, 2006 Ralph Livingston grandson of ALton Livingston who was a son of Hugh Livingston son of ALexander Livingston 1814-1888 of Nine Mile Creek, Lot 65 QUeens County, Prince Edward Island did contact us and you were of course referring to that Ralph Livingston who I can see would be a cousin of yours. I apologize it was 10 years ago and many Livingston inquiries later but now I very much remember that Ralph Livingston. To be honest I had completely forgotten about him and don't think I mentioned to David Michael Livingston about him contacting us some years ago. I don't know if saw Ralph's posts from then. I don't recall mentioning them to him to be entirely honest. Almost 10 years ago now. I don't think we heard from Ralph after that. Anyways I am glad you saw Ralph's post. IN any event we have discussed your ancestor Allan Livingstone as now here off an on since then Ralph visited and I have in communication as you know over the years with your cousin David Michael Livingston pondering the mysteries of your ancestor Allan Livington and the other Nine Mile Creek Livingstons.
Those old posts are accessible but kinda in archived state, but I am glad that the old posts from 2004 to 2009 were saved. It is nice to look back at what we were discussing back in the old days of the Forum. So many Livingstons with so many interesting family histories.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Thu May 19, 2016 10:27 am

Hi Donald,

I got your most recent map list. I believe that I am beginning catch on to what you mean as to the complication of sorting out the relationships of these 9 Mile Creek Livingstone s. I am going to take some time and slowly pour over all that you have given me to study.

I found a reference in Collin Wood's research that:

"The party of Donald Livingston, Sr. leased land on the south shore of Lot 65, immediately east of Nine Mile Creek in 1806. A record on the sale of lands of Lord Selkirk shows 100 ac. in the parish of Charlotte, Queens County to Donald Livingston "settlers in 1806 & interest payable 1st of May 1807." The 1841 Census entry for the homestead property as held by Donald (LV115) shows the lease as having been held 33 years [from 1808]. By the 1841 Census the extended family had another 100 acres by verbal agreement at the mouth of Nine Mile Creek immediately west of Donald that was held by John Loveston [born before 1781] with his wife; and 50 acres by verbal agreement held by Alexander Loveston [born 1781/96] and his wife east of the homestead. The 1863 Lake Map shows a D. Livingston with an A. Livingston immediately to the west, and on the west side of Nine Mile Creek another A. Livingston."

In the sentence where it is referred to as the, "... 1841 census entry for the homestead property as held by Donald ...", do you believe he is referring to to David "C" Livingstone?

I found in other notes from Collin Wood's research concerning Donald Sr.'s son Duncan:

Duncan "- Lived with daughter Mary & son in law John McKinnon in latter years." "- Abt 1836 Mary married John McKINNON. Born in 1809/1810. John died on 6 Jul 1882. Buried in Canoe Cove Cem., Lot 65, PEI. Religion: Free Ch. Of Scot."

Thanks,

Garland
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu May 19, 2016 12:44 pm

Hi Garland,

The original Nine Mile Creek Livingston family researcher whom I learned quite a bit from is John Collins who did extensive research 10 or more years ago I think. It was in his research that I first saw that reference to that very early land transaction of pioneer Settler Donald Livingston b 1750 of Nine Mile Creek you are referring to.
John Collins thought I think as I did I that your ancestor Allan b. 1814 and Donald Livingston b. 1810 might be the sons of Old Donald's son Duncan b. 1775. But as you know we have found some convincing evidence that unfortunately suggests that is probably not the case. I think that John stated that Duncan's widow who lived to be a very old lady lived with McKinnon relatives. Duncan I understand died around 1840 probably I think a few years after his father old Donald. No cemetery stone information for Donald but his wife Catharine died in the 1870's in her nineties and is buried in the Canoe Cove Cemetery. Also buried in the 1870's is Donald C. Livingston (Donald Cameron Livingston's wife) Catharine Cameron. THese Livingstons seemed to have a lot of family connections with Clan Cameron I believe.

Where precisely in Nine Mile Creek area did old Donald live on his 100 acre farm I do not know. I have not been able to find that orignal land document mentioned in JOhn Collins research that you are refering and all I could find out is that is an entry from ledger and that apparently the land document no longer exists. So I am not certain we can find out anything more. THe earliest notion of a location for a Donald Livingston is Donald C. Livingston on the old map from the 1840's. Compounding the problem again it that some of the old land record documents pertaining to Livingston from the first half of the 1800's which could be helpful to us apparently don't exist. I made requests for them from the archives and the best I could do I think were some from the 1860's and later which really had little info of any help to the family research.

My second attempt at assisting David Michael did not clear up the mystery of where old Donald settled only that Donald C Livingston on that map appears to be Donald C. Livingston Donald Cameron Livingston which is the name I discovered to be of Donald C. Livingston born in 1810 in Scotland. The second attempt I think proved that there was in the latter 1800's two farmers Allan Livingston 1814-1888 and Donald Cameron Livingston b. 1810 both born in Scotland several years after old DOnald and his family settled at Nine Mile Creek. Also curiously that some years after Old Donald's son Duncan died in the 1840's Allan probably abt 1848 settled I think settled on the neighbouring lot formerly occupied by a Widow McInnes and later he and his son Allan jr. I noticed were farming on both the widow McInnes Lot and the lot beside that which was formerly the farm of Duncan Livingston only known because of that old map I showed you. I asked the archives about the land records included on the old map for Duncan and they said that the corresponding land record for Duncan no longer exists. So what could have been a lead unfortunately was not. But at least the map records that Duncan did indeed locate east of Nine Mile Creek. Something we would not know if that map did not exist. Which makes one think that Allan Livingston may have known Duncan. So know you know why David Michael and I are kinda confused to some degree regarding what we have found out so far. Unfortunately this is not the first time I have seen a Livingstone genealogy project hit a brick wall where because a lack of information there is some confusion. The second attempt did reveal some new details but still did not provide the answers that I think David Michael was seeking unfortunately. I wish I could tell you guys more. THe whole problem I think is the lack of records to better clarify why Allan b. 1814 and Donald born 1810 in Scotland ended suceeding the earlier Nine Mile Creek family in this area. I really don't know.

John Collins is the expert regarding the Nine Mile Creek Livingstons. He did some amazing and detailed research in the past regarding pioneer settler Donald Livingston and his children that settled in PEI with him.

http://www.islandregister.com/livingston1.html

John logically connected Allan and Donald with Duncan Livingston and notes in the case of Allan that this connection to Duncan Livingston and his wife Catharine is "not proven" but that he is located on a 1863 map on his father's (Duncan's) lot. Studying the other maps I also came to same conclusion that he and his son located on Duncan's lot and the one beside it. So I think there is no doubt where Allan and his son were located. The 1863 map I am not using because I think the other land maps are more accurate but yes definitely Allan and son ended up on the area of Duncan's lot. A study of the lots and where Duncan was where Allan and son were years later certainly indicates that to me as well.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 23, 2016 2:56 am

Hi Garland,

I rechecked through the land records I have pertaining to Allan Livingston Sr. and his son and they leave no doubt as which lot they were located in last years of Allan Livingston Senior's life. These ledgers with entries from the years 1877 to 1885 for two lots leased and or purchased? by Allan Livingston Sr and his son Allan D. Livingston make it all crystal clear. Alexander Livingston Sr. according to the one ledger info was located on a 57 1/2 acre lot with the Deed B9/42. This you may recall from the Deed number and acreage on the oldest map I showed you that was the lot that a Duncan Livingston was years earlier located on. A second ledger info shows that Allan D. Livingston, Allan Livingston Senior's son is located on a 62 1/2 acre lot Deed B4/158. On the oldest map I showed you the earlier occupant of this lot was stated on the map to be a Widow McInnes. I think the most significant bit of informant discovered in this study last year of the land records and these old maps was that Allan Livingston Sr. located himself on Duncan Livington's lot sometime in the years following Duncan's death. In the early years 1847 I believe that Allan Livingston Sr. leased this lot and it was only years later that I think Allan and his son Allan actually purchased these two lots from the PEI government. I am no expert with these land records but I have no doubt as to precisely where the Alan and son were located in before Allan Senior's death in 1888. This much was learned from a second attempt to solve the Mystery of Nine Mile Creek Livingstons last year. (And that farmer Donald Cameron Livingston born abt. 1810 is apparently Alan's brother.) With everything that challenges the notion that Allan Sr. and Donald Livingston are sons of Duncan or grandchildren of Donald Livingston Sr. b.1750 it is an interesting fact that Allan Livingston Sr did locate on the lot at one time occupied by Duncan Livingston. The mystery continues. If the original land records of Duncan Livingston and his father Donald Livingston still existed in the archives I think we would have more information to go by, but from deed and lot info on the old land map it is clear that up until about the early 1840's I should think Duncan Livingston lived on that 57 1/2 acre lot east of Nine Mile Creek which your ancestor Allan Livingston Sr. in later years occupied apparently leasing it. I think he purchased the lot. I have to take another look at the land records to confirm that but he was definitely located on it.

One other thing. The earlier info I have and it just a note not a surviving land record but written in with later record is a note that states that Allan Livingston Sr. leased a 70 acre lot 1/5/1847 and years later 20/12/1877 he transferred 62 1/2 acres of this lease to his son Allan D. Livingston. The 70 acre lot (62 1/2 acre lot) mentioned is the lot on the oldest map before 1847 occupied by the
Widow McInnes apparently. So Allan Livingston seems to have located himself east of Nine Mile Creek apparently a few years after Duncan Livingston's death it would seem and eventually he and son farmed both the Widow McInnes Lot and the one beside it where Duncan Livingston's farm must have been.

The maps show a Donald C. Livingston ( Donald Cameron Livingston) leasing 100 acres west of Nine Mile Creek. I was not able to get a land document for that which might help to clear this up. I notice from the one of the maps there is reference to Donald C. Livingston leasing 100 acres but not date when this first took place. I assume this is Allan's brother Donald that probably leased this probably way back in the early 1840's and there simply is no record of it at the PEI archives. That is unfortunate as I would like to have a land transaction history of that lot to clarify some things. There is also a McNeil connected to that lot at some point in time, just to further complicate things. Later Donald Cameron Livingston in the year 1868 oddly enough leases 50 acres of the 57 1/2 acres that Alan Livingston Sr. is located on but later in 1876 is reassigned to Allan Livingston Sr. In 1877 the neighbouring 62 1/2 acres are assigned to Alan Livington Senior's son Allan D. Livingston.
regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 23, 2016 2:22 pm

Hi Garland,

Looking at John Collin's information he places Donald Livingston on 100 acres east of Nine Mile Creek circa 1806 and 1807 and it is east of Nine Mile creek where on that old map we find his son Duncan Livingston and another son Alexander Livingston. My assumption then is that without the original lease record or the 1807 purchase record of 100 acres, that this is the best we have to support the notion that old Donald first settled and located on the east side of nine mile creek probably quite likely where Duncan Livingston was situated in the oldest map I could find. I understand the 1807 information that it was only written in a ledger and that the land record itself no longer exists. One of the other problems I have is that Lord Selkirk is not known to have owned land on Lot 65 according to all the information I have seen. The land which Donald Livingston b. 1750 settled on I would think was owned by Edward Fanning and later by his wife and after that Benedict Cumberland if I am not mistaken. You can see their names on the old land maps we have been looking at. So it is a mystery to be certain. I am going to make some more inquires regarding this early ledger information regarding pioneer Donald Livingston's location east of Nine Mile Creek. Then of course there is the information regarding Donald C. Livingston leasing the land 100 acres west of Nine Mile Creek. There was lease record transaction numbers on the old map and a Deed number as well. Also the name McNeil on that the 100 acres or two 50 acre lots. There is a bit of mystery regarding that lot. Donald C. Livingston in the later land records of the 1860's is referred to as Donald C. Livingston and Donald Cameron Livingston in the land documents and that is one who in the 1860's leases some land on a lot beside Allan Livington Sr. Anyways the second time round last year I did learn quite a bit more than I did the first time researching these Livingstons. Of course I still don't really understand if there is a connection between the original Livingstone family in this area and the later one of Allan Livingston and this Donald Cameron Livington who arrived later from Scotland after old Donald and his family settled.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Tue May 24, 2016 12:52 am

Hi Donald,

I certainly do appreciate the investigative work that you are doing as it pertains to these land leases.

Thank you kindly,
Garland
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue May 24, 2016 4:49 am

Hi Garland,
No problem since I had been working on this last year with your cousin David Michael Livingston and one our clansmen from PEI Barry Judson. So I have just had to refresh my memory a bit on the details and take another look at the information. There is still some confusion regarding some things regarding the land transaction I think we have a pretty good idea where Allan and his son were located and their proximity to where Duncan Livingston abt. 1772 son of old Donald earlier resided. There documents missing, pieces in the puzzle we don't have access to so we just work with what is available and figure this out as best we can. I think after the second time round I think David and I had a better sense of things though it is not by any stretch of the imagination crystal clear who Allan and Donald were and why they settled at Nine Mile Creek and what if any relation they had to old Donald and his son Duncan who apparently lived on the east side of Nine Mile Creek previously to your ancestor Allan Livingston Sr. and his family.

regards,
Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:59 pm

Hi Donald,

I just found some time to pour over all of your postings within this present "Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone family" posting. Absolutely fascinating, and I commend you on your fine investigative research. Thank you again for the extensive, and complete review of the possible connections between my relative, Allan Livingstone Sr., his brother Donald C., and that of the 1750 Donald Livingstone Senior.

Would you know anything as it pertains to where the land lot is that Allan Livingstone's wife, Jennet McDonald refers to in her will, "gives her farm of 60 ac. and stock, implements and furniture to her son John Ewen Livingstone." The quotes from this will are from John Collins work:

- On 3 Nov 1847 Allan married Janet (JENNET) McDONALD, in Charlottetown, PEI. Clergy Rev. Silas F. Rand, Baptist minister; witnesses John McDonald & Margaret McKenzie. Born in 1825/1826 in Nine Mile Creek, Lot 65, PEI. Janet (JENNET) died in Nine Mile Creek, Lot 65, PEI, on 20 Mar 1891. Buried in Canoe Cove Cem., Lot 65, PEI. Religion: Free Ch. Of Scot.

- Her will [Lib 12, Folio 542 PEI Archives Registers of Wills] gives her farm of 60 ac. and stock, implements and furniture to her son John Ewen Livingstone. Executors were her son Allan Livingstone and her brothers John and Charles McDonald, all of Nine Mile Creek. Jennet made her mark on 2 Sept 1890, witnessed by Neil S. McKenzie and Angus Campbell, and the will was proved on oath of Angus Campbell 1 April 1891. This farm may have been a piece of land that she inherited in her own name from the McDonald family as the Livingston farm is thought to have gone to the first son Allan Livingston.

* Will: PEI Wills & Administrations 1807-1900 Wills, Liber 12, Folio 542, Filed 1 April 1891 with codicil.

In her will:

-Jennet Levingstone of Nine Mile Creek, widow of Allan Levingstone, gives her farm of 60 ac. and stock, implements and furniture to her son John Ewen Livingstone.

- Stipulates that she is to be buried beside her husband in the Canoe Cove burying ground.

- States "As to the rest of my family, they knowing my circumstances, know I can leave them nothing but my blessing."

Executors were her son Allan Livingstone and her brothers John and Charles McDonald, all of Nine Mile Creek. Jennet made her mark on 2 Sept 1890, witnessed by Neil S. McKenzie and Angus Campbell, and the will was proved on oath of Angus Campbell 1 April 1891.

Thank you kindly,
Garland LivingstoneC

Post Script: I have not as yet heard anything more from my new found relative, David Michael Livingstone after his initial posting back in May. Is there away that I can provide to him a way wherein we can communicate directly, (for example: Personal message, e-mail address, telephone number)?
Garland LivingstoneC
 
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:49 pm

Hi Garland,

I would think that at this stage of your research, having familiarized yourself with those early land maps and the 2 lots that Allan Sr and Jr. were located on you might want to contact the PEI archives in Charlottetown or the current land record office and see how you can determine the precise location of that lot. They had their own way of identifying individual lots that is different from how it was done elsewhere in Canada in the 19th century so no doubt in PEI there are persons there who may be able determine precisely where that family farm was located. The 19th century map info of those two lot and the location would probably make more sense to someone who works with present day land records pertaining to Queens county Lot 65, Nine Mile Creek area where you ancestor's farm was located.

I will let David know you are trying to get in touch with him.

regards,

Donald
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