Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone family

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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby dlivings » Sun May 15, 2016 3:52 am

Hi Garland,

my name is David Livingstone and from the posts and what Donald Clink has told me, we are cousins. My Great Grandfather was Hugh Livingstone who died in a scaffolding collapse in the Boston area in 1921. My Grandfather was his son Alton. From what I see, you are descended from Hugh's son Elmo. My Dad, Ralph Livingstone, remembers his Uncle Elmo very well. I have loads of documentary evidence on our branch of the lot 65 Livingstone's and have visited the PEI cemeteries near lot 65, including Canoe Cove. Currently, my theory is that our common ancestor, Allan Livingstone, was born in Scotland ca. 1814-16 and came to PEI to live with his relatives who were original settlers from the 1806 Rambler voyage. Allan lived on Duncan Livingstone's land, so I believe he might have been his nephew. Donald Clink has done some good work on the theory that Allan (our ancestor) was the brother of Donald Cameron Livingstone because they both appeared living on lot 65 and leasing land around the same time. I have all the lot 65 land ledgers, but unfortunately, these provide little clue as to Allan's place of birth. I have searched extensively on the Scotland's people website, but only have a few Allan's that match his age range. I would be happy to share what I have learned with you. I have all the marriage, birth, and death records of my male line back to Allan at Nine Mile Creek, but have not been able to pick up the trail in Scotland. I also have a good deal of paper evidence on the White family, which were the relatives of Hugh's wife, Isabella. Her Mother was Sara Nickerson of Nova Scotia who was the daughter of a loyalist sea captain who fled the United States when the Revolutionary War broke out. The White family (Isabella's father) were originally from the town of Coaley in Gloucester England. Lets compare notes and see if we can help each other out.

Best,

David Livingstone
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun May 15, 2016 12:11 pm

Hi Garland,
I will locate the specific maps I was referring to for you today or tomorrow.
By the time you see this message of mine, you will have noticed that your long lost cousin David has dropped by with a message to you. He is more closely related to you than I realized which is great. I did not realize that he was descended like you from Alexander's son Hugh, though I did recall that his family ended up in Massachusetts like yours so I should have suspected a connection between your families. That is great and all the better for the two of you when your comparing research notes. This is not first time the forum has helped Livingston genealogists to find cousins, distant or otherwise. I have got to know David Michael Livingston over several years and he is a very dedicated to his PEI Livingstone family research. He and his father several years ago, made a journey to Queens County, Prince Edward Island and visited Nine Mile Creek and the cemetery nearby at Canoe Cove where your shared ancestor Allan Livingston and his wife Janet are buried. For a family genealogist I know from my own experience that there is nothing quite like locating your pioneer ancestors gravestone in an old cemetery. Following that ancestral adventure David wrote an article and contributed some of his photos of his visit to our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Newsletter which is for our members. Our webpage will provide you with some details of the interesting and ancient history of the highland Western Argyll Macleas/Maconleas which by second half of the 18th century had fully adopted the name Livingstone. Also some info on our Clan Society and how to join if you are so inclined and about our exciting Genealogy DNA project which working with the Y chromosome test offered by Familytreedna has helped to identify the origins of Livingston families throughout the world and helped to link them to other Livingston families they never knew they were related to.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Mon May 16, 2016 2:48 am

Hi Donald,
Thank you kindly for reaching out to my cousin David. I am so looking forward to sharing family information with him. Also, as I have just minutes ago joined the the MacLea/Livingstone Clan Society, am anxious to explore the Society News letter article of David and his father's visit to Nine Mile Creek, as well as exploring the clan history, and the DNA project.

Much to do with so little time, and I couldn't be more happier knowing that I will never die of boredom.

Sincerely,
Garland
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Greg Livingston » Mon May 16, 2016 5:25 am

Good evening, Garland. Have just been reading the posts here and wanted to welcome you to the Clan MacLea (Livingstone) Society. As soon as the information processes, we will get you on the mailing list for the newsletter.

Once again, welcome and good hunting on your genealogical trail!
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Mon May 16, 2016 7:56 am

[attachment=0]Dylan and great, great, great Grandfather, Hugh Livingstone.JPG

Hello David,

It is very nice to make your acquaintance. I have many questions for you about your grandfather Alton and his decedents. I understand that Elmo was very close to Alton growing up, but as they lived their adult lives at opposite ends of the country their communications primarily consisted of Post, and an occasional phone conversation. Elmo left Massachusetts in 1929, and drove his first family to California. My mother, Phyllis was only 7 years of age when they made that journey so her memory of other Livingstone relatives was somewhat vague.

Elmo, and his second family lived for the most part in Corona, California. During that time I remember that there was a Livingstone relative that moved to the west coast that Elmo would go and visit. if I can recall, it would have been back in the 1960's, and possibly located in Simi Valley, California. I cannot say that my recollection of the first name of that Livingstone relative is very accurate, my thought was that it was a Don, or a Donald. Would this be your father, Ralph? I also remember his having traveled up to Vancouver, British Columbia, but I am not sure if that was a trip to visit a Livingstone relative or not. My mother passed away in Salt Lake City, Utah in the year 2000. While she was alive, she kept up communications with June and Shirley, the daughters of Elmo & Alton''s sister, Edna.

My research into our great grandfather, Hugh's background, and PEI lineage has been limited, and I am afraid I can't add to much more to what I have already posted. I was aware of how Hugh had died. I did not know that it occurred in 1921. I do not know his burial place, nor Isabella's. My knowledge of the White family is even more limited. I knew the first name of Isabella's mother to be that of Sara, but I was unaware of her maiden name before now, thanks to you. I was led to believe the name of Isabella's father was Charles, and that he was born in England, I don't know if that name is correct, but I now know where in England his family is from, again, thanks. I am shaky on where exactly in Canada Isabella was born, and what were the circumstances behind Hugh and her meeting.

I concur with your very logical theory on Allan Sr. and his brother Donald. I look forward to participating in your research to find evidence that helps to clarify some of the details to further substantiate your theory. Donald Clink has been extraordinarily helpful has he not.

I am going to ask researcher Collin Wood if their is any evidence of a son of the original Donald Livingstone family, with the name of Donald existing before the recording of two Donald Livingstones on the passenger list of the Rambler. I am curious to know why the younger Donald (25 yrs), his wife, Flora (24 yrs), and two week old son, Malcolm were not grouped together on the list with the rest of the Livingstone family if indeed he was a son. The other sons of Donald Sr., and their wives and children are all grouped together in the list. Was this younger Donald possibly another Donald indirectly related to the original Donald Livingstone family that settled lot 65?

I just joined the Clan Society in the last 24 hours at Donald Clink's suggestion, and I am looking forward to reading your article posted in the news letter.

I have attached a picture of my grandson Dylan (16 yrs), and Dylan's great, great, great grandfather, Hugh Livingstone (50 yrs).

Will write again soon,
Garland
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 16, 2016 6:17 pm

Hi Garland,

Is that a close family resemblance or what? There is no mistaking Dylan being a descendant of Hugh Livingston. Same face almost. I have seen something like that before in my wife's family with her nephew looking something like her grandfather as young man but Dylan looks like he could be Hugh's identical twin. No question they are related. Thanks for sharing that on the forum as with all your genealogical info. That is interesting to see the resemblance.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 16, 2016 10:14 pm

Hi Garland,
Well this theory may be logical but I have to tell you that your poor cousin David Michael and I have spent headache filled hours and days trying to sort this mystery out and while it seems clear that Alan and this nearby farmer on the opposite side of Nine Mile Creek area to your ancestor Allan seem to be likely brothers born in Scotland a few years after old Donald born abt 1750 arrived with his large family arrived in 1806 and don't seem to sons of DOnald's son Duncan as was thought, in many respects we seem somewhat far from any real happy sense of closure on this one I am afraid.

I did find it odd that Allan Sr. and ALlan Jr. should end up occupying the lot beside DUncans farm and eventually Duncans lot itself in the years after his death. And yet they were born in Scotland: Donald in 1810 or thereabouts and Allan about 1814. We have been able to verify that beyond the census records of 1881 from I think their childrens records which apparently mentioned that their father was born in Scotland or some other records. SO that seems to be correct. ANd then there are the DNA test results. Still is it concidence that ALlan and his son Alan jr end up precisely where Duncan and his neighbour the Widow McInnes had their farm. That sure seems weird to me if they were not related to DUncan and the old Nine Mile Creek family. My theory may be logical but I cant say I am happy with my own theory to be honest. The goal has been to try to get at the truth of this matter for David Michael and my theory just does not give him much in the way of clarity or closure. Still in the end we have a lot of question marks. Still we did discover a few thing such as the fact that Duncan Livingston the son of old Donald died and some years later Allan Sr. settled on the lot beside his and then some years later eventually if I understood correctly ALan's son Alan jr. ended up farming on that lot or the two of them did. The main thing is that Alan and son definitely in the end located on the Widow Mcinnes lot and in due time the one beside it that was apparently occupied in the 1840's and probably before that time by Duncan Livington. I checked but the archives don't seem have any surviving land records for the Duncan Livingston that is on that old land map and that apparentlly is only proof we have that old Donald's son Duncan born in Scotland in 1770's ever lived in anywhere in that area to the east of Nine Mile creek and where Alan and son curiously enough would later be farming. That I found very interesting in my second attempt in 2015 to assist your cousin David Michael Livingston. I think that was the most interesting thing I did find out the second time round working with David Michael. We also had some help from Barry Judson who lives in PEI and has Livingstone roots as well to another Livingston family in PEI.

This first map has is actually appears to be the oldest with Nine Mile creek farmers on it. In some cases though the original owners were erased and new owners added to it. I think it is states it from 1892 but it very much is not from 1892 but from the 1840's or before but with some updates in land ownership apparently. Of interest to Nine Mile Creek Livingston research is Nine Mile on the left side of the Map. Eventually on the west side of Nine Mile Creek you will see Donald C Livingston occupying to lots with the name formerly McNeal faded still partly visible. Donald C. Livingston is Donald Cameron Livingston b.1810 or 1811 in Scotland brother of ALexander because he signed on land record transaction in the later 1800's Donald C. Livingston or Donald Cameron Livingston. HIs wife was also Catharine Cameron just to make things confusing. Most interesting about this map is the older Livingston settlers that are still on it. No sign of old Donald Livingston Sr. b. 1750 He died around 1840 and I think this map was created shortly after his death and perhaps a little before the death of his son Duncan Livingston b. 1775? who is located on this old map east of Nine Mile Creek. You actually see to the west of Nine Mile creek the Widow McInnes, Duncan Livingston, George Smith and beside Mr. Smith Duncan's younger brother Alexander Livingston. It is not precisely clear when Duncan died but I think this rare old map of Lot 65 shows that he for a few years after his father's death but probably died a few years after him possibly apparently the 1840s' Some of this of course is speculation because there is no death record for Duncan just a notion that died around 1840 or in the 1840's sometime. The other big problem I have with this old map is there is no date and they don't know at the archives how old it is. ( It was not drawn in 1892.) Anyways this map seems to show where some of old Donald's son lived or should I say the last of old Donald's son's lived in the Nine Mile Creek before your ancestor by the year 1848 probably first located where Duncan or the Widow McINnes had been located in the 1840's I believe. ANyways here is the first map that shows a DOnald C. Livingston on two lots formerly occupied a McNeal east of Nine Mile Creek and the lot a WIdow McINnes, Duncan Livingston George Smith and Alexander Livington for you to look over. I am assuming that the Donald C Livingston written in over original land owner McNeal is the later Donald Cameron Livingston b. abt. 1810, possible brother of your ancestor Alan Livington Sr. Anyways the important point is that this is only map to show old Donald's son Duncan and where he was farming in the Nine Mile Creek area and as you will notice in later maps your ancestor Alan Livingston Sr and son ALlan jr. are occupying the lot that was formerly Duncan and one beside it apparently some time after Duncan's death. That is another reason why I at first thought Allan Sr. and his brother? Donald C. Livingston were sons of Duncan who was son of old pioneer Donald Livingston Sr. b. 1750 but as you may eventually figure it does not seem to prove to be that simple. I wish truly wish it was and probably so does David Michael though I think he still holding out hope that it might be true.

This is the old map with Duncan Livington on a lot east of Nine Mile Creek. Duncan is said to have died around 1840 or as I believe sometime in the 1840s'. There is information interestingly on one of land maps of a land transaction that no longer exists that has Allan Livingston locating either on Duncan's lot in 1848 or the next one the Widow McInnes lot I think. And later you see both Alexander Sr. and his son Allan jr. are farming on both the Widow McINnes and old DUncan's lot that could not but help find interesting particularly since you must realize that your cousin David Michael Livington and i had been struggling to find and clue connecting his ancestor Allan Sr. to the original Livingstons that settled around 1806 at Nine Mile Creek. THey dont seem to close blood relatives according to the DNa testing though they do share a common Maclea Liviingston in more ancient times just not a father or grandfather apparently. They could also as I think David Michael is thinking be related through marriage or something like that or be neighbours back in Mull or Morvern where the original family of old Donald born 1750 came from before Mull it is said.

Anyways here is what I think it the oldest map with DUncan Livingston and the widow McINnes where later ALan Livingston and his son Allan jr. his eldest son were farming in the later 1800's. Later map with your ancestor Allan Sr. and son tomorrow in the former location of the Widow Mcinnes and DUncan Livingston east of Nine Mile Creek.
Map No. 0139 THe oldest land map with the Livingstons in the Nine Mile Creek( Pre Allan Livingston Sr. (probably before 1848 but possibly with later corrections and updates with some later grantees or leases just to confuse things.)

http://www.islandimagined.ca/fedora/rep ... d%3A209109

You can enlarge it as you like once you hang of it and fool with it until you find the Nine Mile Creek area lots you are looking for. The lots marked widow McInnes and Duncan Livingston seem to be the later Lots that Alan Livingston Sr. and his son Alan jr. later were farming on. I think they had other property perhaps but obviously I was most interested to see the two of them farming and occupying first the Widow MCinnes property and the n apparently the old farm of Duncan Livingston. More on this tomorrow.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Garland LivingstoneC » Tue May 17, 2016 2:58 am

Hi Donald,

The map link was great, and I located all three of the Livingstone land lots.

Thank you kindly,
Garland
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue May 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Hi Garland,

That first map as I said probably an old map with original info and a few updates on some lots is the oldest one I have been working with. It is referred to as Map 0139 Plan of half Township of No. 65 one of the estates of Miss Fanning Plan of Eastern Half of Lot 65


THe next map I refer you to Map 4177. A later map which includes the later location of Allan Livingston Senior your ancestor on one of those lots I mentioned east of Nine Mile Creek and his son on a lot beside him. His full name is listed on the lot as Allan D. Livingston Junior. Beside them is the George Smith as on the earlier map, so you can see they located in same location as where DUncan Livingston was previously located and that Widow Mcinnes from the old map the first map I sent you. Now interestingly west of Nine Mile Creek Donald C. Livingston continues to be listed there. As mentioned this is Donald Cameron Livingston born abt. 1810 in Scotland whom we believe to be Allan's older brother. The written information on both of these maps you have probably figured out is information for locating the original land documents including leases. SOme of the later 1800's ones we located for Alan Livington Sr. and Junior and Donald C. Livingston farmers but the PEI archives has stated that the land record mentnioned on the old map for Duncan Livingston no longer exists. We know that Donald C. Livingston was located on a 100 acre lot that you could see on both maps appears to be west of Nine Mile Creek but I don't know where the orignal lot of the original Donald Livingstone born 1750 was located. I have been trying to track down original 1806 or 1807 land record. I have been told it exists but had no luck obtaining it. I was in touch with someone who appeared to know something about it and will see if I can find out how he managed to find it. If I find that land record it might help to prove the original location of his lot in 1806/1807 either west or east of Nine Mile Creek. The two maps mention a Donald C. Livingston located West of Nine Mile Creek as you have seen but am pretty sure they both refer to Donald Cameron Livingston b. 1810 who farmed in that spot in the latter part of the 1800's to be sure. I just dont know who was there before him except that very faintly you can see that in the early 1800's the original farmer was not a Livingston but a McNeal so I dont think that Old Donald was there as pioneer to that lot or lots in 1807.It must have been somewhere else west or perhaps east of Nine Mile Creek. My next project is to try and find out the early source of info about old Donald's location on a lot at NIne Mile Creek> I may never find the original 1807 land record. It may just be a one sentence entry that takes me nowhere but at least I will try and find that 1807 ledger book with that early Livingston land transaction in PEI.

Here is the Map 4177. Check out the Livingston lots on the West and to the east of Nine Mile Creek in the later part of the 1800's and where your ancestor Allan Livingston Sr. and his son Allan D. Livingston were located in comparison to the early map I showed you yesterday. What do you think? I did a detailed analysis and have some notes somewhere matching the lots and who was on which and when in the 1800's. I would have easily have assumed that Allan Livingston Sr. was Duncan's son as others have. I am just can't see how that could logically be the case given the other info we have. But it interesting that he and son ended up on the Widow McInnes and old DUncan Livingston lot. At the very least you have to wonder if Alan Sr. knew old farmer Duncan Livingston and the Widow McInnes. One of the maps refers to the earliest Allan Livingston sr. land transaction as being n 1848 but alas when we checked the PEI archives it was stated that it does not survive. What there is some later 1860's and later land transactions I think but nothing with much info of great genealogly value in them.

Map no. 2 Map 4177 that includes later ALlan Livingston land transactions and his location and that of his son Allan D. Livingston. This is where your ancestor Hugh would have lived with his father and family in case you were trying to locate them on a detailed map of the area:

http://www.islandimagined.ca/fedora/rep ... d%3A208677


regards,

Donald



regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Descendant of Lot 65, 31, 30 PEI Donald Livingstone fami

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue May 17, 2016 6:04 pm

HI Garland,

This is what was found regarding "Donald C. Livingston (Donald Cameron Livingston) mentioned on the two maps and listed in the 1881 Census in Nine Mile Creek. Donald was born in Scotland about 1810 according to his census record. His death date is unknown. His wife died in the 1870's and she was buried in the Canoe Cove Cemetery as Catherine Cameron. Also buried in Canoe Cove Cemetery is Alan Livingston Sr. and his wife Janet MCDonald and Duncan Livingston's widow Catharine "relict of DUncan Livingston" who well into nineties in the 1870's when she died.

This is the land record info I found for Donald C. Livingston presumed to an older brother of your ancestor Allan Livingston Sr. 1814-1888

Donald C Livingston (Donald Cameron Livingston) lot location info
Donald Cameron Livingston Land info after 1841 (he appears to have been entered on this map his leased lot west of 9 Mile Creek in the 1840's? Earlier farmer appears in faint original writing on 100 acre lot as McNeal. A person named McNeal appears to have the earlier occupant. No evidence that this had been occupied by the original nine mile creek settler Donald Livingston Sr. b. 1750.
See Land Map 0139 (oldest land map of Nine Mile Creek area with settlers listed Donald C. Livingston 100 acres There is a Deed No but the deed is apparently lost.
Estate of Miss Fanning Date not known after 1841
100 acre lease? on South shore west of Nine Mile Creek (copy of lease not likely existing)


Land Map 4177 Cumberland Date not known after 1841 later map (same as above mentioned lot)
100 acre lease on south shore west of Nine Mile Creek (copy of lease not likely existing)

Lease dated July 25, 1868
Colonel Cumberland and Wife to Donald C. Levingston
Lease of 50 acres Lot 65 Registered July 27, 1868
Copy of Lease exists in PEI archives
“Land situated on the said Township and bounded as follows that is to say on the west by Allen Levingstone’s farm ….on the west by Edward McDougall’s farm and on the South by the shore of Nine Mile Creek. “
This is another lease for land located adjacent to Allan Livingston Senior’s farm I believe on the east side of Nine Mile Creek ( see Cumberland estate land maps) In the 1870’s this lease and land was transferred to Allan Livingston Sr.

For reasons unknown the above transaction seems to indicate that he leased briefly a lot near Allan Livingston more evidence that the two of them were likely related.

regards,

Donald
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