New Zealand Livingstones

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Suetuna
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New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Suetuna »

Hi. I am a descendant of Charles Livingstone who was born in Ballachulish in 1818 and settled at Forest Hill Southland, New Zealand with his wife Dorothy McColl and their children. My grandfather's grandmother was Margaret Livingstone who married Neil McLeod in 1878. I am hoping to hear from other descendants of Charles and Dorothy.
Thanks
jmlivingstone
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by jmlivingstone »

1842, 16 May, Charles Livingston, Dorothy McColl, both residing in Laroch

Welcome to the forum,I just had a very quick look & found there is actually quite a bit of information already on here on your family, in ''ancestral search'', go to page 7, find subject titled ''My Livingston(e) Line'' & go to page 24, hopefully this will at least point you in the right direction.

This site has quite a few Livingstone burials in New Zealand http://www.gravestonephotos.com/search/ ... width=1600,

John
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Here is a direct link to one such discussion but there is more on the page John referenced above this comment:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=828&start=230#p9280
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
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Kaye Saunders
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Kaye Saunders »

Welcome 4th cousin. While I'm not a descendant of Charles and Dorothy, my great grandmother Janet/Jessie was their neice and she came out to New Zealand with them. Janet and her brother Dugald were orphaned in the mid 1840's and then they lived with C&D. Dugald did not come out to New Zealand but one of his son's Donald went to the States, and Ginger on this list is a descendant of his. I see John and Kyle have already pointed you to the discussions where we found out about the connection.

I have a copy of 'Livingstone of "Laroch" Ballachulish to Forest Hill' the story of Charles and Dorothy and their families - researched by Agnes McFadzien and Margaret Docherty and self published by Margaret in 1998. They are the only two of Charles' descendants I have met.

You are most welcome to the information I have - it does need to be updated.

Kaye
Dunedin and Riverton, NZ
Suetuna
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Suetuna »

Thanks everyone for your replies. My Poppa told me we were related to David Livingstone but I'm thinking that was just a family story. I am looking for the parents of Charles . Does anyone know who they were? Thanks for any help.
Suetuna
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Suetuna »

I have quite a bit of family history info for my branch of the Livingstone tree if anyone is interested. Contact me at tunafamily@snap.net.nz.
Thanks, Sue
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Sue,

I defer to our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society New Zealand Livingstone expert Kaye on this one. She has done extensive research over many years on her New Zealand and Ballachuilish Livingstone family group and is probably the best person to ask about Laroch, Ballachulish Livingstons and their kin.

The Clan Society welcomes any genealogy info or simply information on your ancestral line connecting you to 19th century Balachulish Livingstones slate workers etc. that we have been researching in the past at this Forum. A number of Livingstons I have noticed in my research found work in the Balachuilish area as slate workers over the years and those the Isle of Luing, Seil and Easdale areas of Western Argyllshire where some of the world's best quality slate was sourced in the 19th century and well before that. There are at least 23 people via ancestry.com who have submitted genealogy info connected to Charles Livingston 1818-1871 and Dorothy McColl of Laroch, Ballachulish, Duror Parish married May 16, 1842 who settled in New Zealand in 1860. So it looks like there a lot of people who are doing research on Charles, Dorothy and family and many of those I suspect are likely related to them.

There is no baptism or birth record for Charles, sorry to say, so that is probably why some researchers working with what is available to them with ancestry. com are relying on the 1851 Scottish Census info, the last census in Scotland that your ancestor Charles Livingston was recorded to determine an approximate birth year of abt. 1818. Census records however aren't always reliable in terms of determining the actual year of birth but when no other source may be available to the researcher often you don't really have choice. Kay in the past located a number of the old Livingston records pertaining to St. John Episcopalian Church in Ballachulish and some of baptism records may be missing in that collection as they are frequently in the Church of Scotland parish record books.


Regarding your search for the parents of Charles Livingston I noticed that in addition to the Charles Livingston located in the above mentioned 1851 Census that there is a "Charlie" Livingston age 20 born abt. 1821 recorded in the previous 1841 Scottish Census son of Ewen (Hugh) Livingston a quarrier living in Duror Parish, Argyll and Mary Livingston (likely Mary Mcinnes) . I suspect this is your ancestor Charles Livingston and is so these are his parents. Children are Ewen age 25 b. abt. 1816, Charlie age 20 b. abt. 1821 and Angus Livingston age 15 born abt. 1826. These ages recorded may not be accurate which often the case with census record info. The only surviving baptism of this family seems to be one for their son Angus Livingston of Laroch, Ballachuilish baptized Feb. 9, 1823 parents listed as Hugh (Ewen) Livingston and Mary McInnes of Laroch, Ballachulish which was in Duror Parish. Livingston often referred to themselves in the 18th and 19th century Argyll, Scotland records as Ewen or Hugh so it always a good idea to check the records using either names. I noticed that the researchers on Ancestry.com don't seem to linked this Ewen Livingston quarrier of Duror Parish, Argyll in the 1841 Census to the Charles that married Dorothy McColl part to reason likely being that that they had no information on his parents and did not make the connection with a Ewen or Hugh Livingston and Mary McInnes as being his parents and also perhaps because of the age difference between Charles in the 1851 census and the 'Charlie" in the 1841 census. Perhaps they were aware of the "Charlie" in the earlier census but discounted him in their research as being the same Charles as in the subsequent 1851 Census. I am not so sure this "Charlie" Livingston in the 1841 census the son of a Ewen Livingston and Mary McInnes might not be your ancestor Charles Livingston. My experience with census records is that frequently the ages given in some of the census records are recorded incorrectly or given incorrectly for one reason or another. I do think there is a very good chance this best lead you may find as to who Charles parents in Duror Parish, Argyll might have been given that there are no surviving birth or baptism records for him.

I would recommend you consult with Kaye on this, but it looks like to me that Charles Livingston was perhaps the son of Ewen (Hugh) Livingston quarrier of Duror and Appin Parish, Argyllshire and his wife Mary McInnes and that there is no baptism or birth record to confirm this. This would be my best assumption anyways given that they have the only "Charlie" residing in the Laroch area of the approximate age range of your Charles Livingston. If so then the parents were Ewen (Hugh) Livingston born abt. 1781 and his wife Mary Mcinnes born abt. 1781. I don't know what happened to them after that as Ewen (Hugh) Livingston and his wife Mary McInnes seem to disappear from Balachulish and I don't see them in the 1851 Argyll, Scotland Census unless I missed them somehow.

It just states in the 1851 Scottish census that your ancestor Charles was a labourer residing in East Laroch Ballachuilish but it is quite likely his work was connected to the slate quarry situated in East Laroch that had been in operation since the 1600's as was the one in West Laroch. It would seem likely that his father if I am correct worked at this or another quarry as quarryman as likely did many of his other kin. There is a book by Barbara Fair-weather published in 1984 entitled "Highland Heritage" that I read a few years ago, which goes into some detail regarding the history of the slate industry in the Ballachulish area and includes some interesting vintage photos of the area and the slate mining.

The slate quarries of East and West Laroch, Ballachuilish in old Duror Parish later known as Appin and Duror Parish in Argyllshire employed a number of Livingstons with roots to that area of Argyllshire, but also attracted other Livingstons some of them slate workers from other parts of Argyllshire as well in the 19th century taking advantage of the employment opportunities in Ballachulish.

I actually located Charles and Dorothy's 1842 marriage entry in the old Church of Scotland Duror Parish book so I am thinking they were married by a Church of Scotland minister rather than in the Episcopalian Church in Ballachulish. The National Records of Scotland has this old Church of Scotland entry and you can view it or purchase a certified copy through their Scotlands People website.

Duror Parish, Argyll Church of Scotland Records
May 15 (1842) "There is a report of marriage between Charles Livingston and Dorothy McColl at Laroch in the Parish"

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Duror Parish, Argyll Church of Scotland Records
May 15 (1842) "There is a report of marriage between Charles Livingston and Dorothy McColl at Laroch in the Parish"
That is a curious way to put it--I wonder if that means an irregular marriage that did not take place in the church itself?

Kyle
Kyle S. MacLea
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Canadian Livingstone
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kyle,

I think that the wording the parish Church of Scotland minister used at least on that entire page of his Duror Parish book. I thought they were married in St. John's Episcopalian Church in Ballachulish area as number of other Livingstons in the area were, but this Charles Livingston and his wife's marriage seems to have taken place in a Church of Scotland church and is recorded in that Parish minister's book in 1842. It could be that some Livingstons living and working in Ballachulish were Church of Scotland and the rest were Episcopalians. A lot of the Livingstons in the Ballachuilish area I think see to have Episcopalians and there was the St. John's Episcopalian Church there.

regards,

Donald
Kaye Saunders
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Re: New Zealand Livingstones

Post by Kaye Saunders »

Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this and I will drop Sue a note about the family. Just butting in here to say that I did transcribe, from the Registers in St John's, Ballachullish, the marriage of Charles Livingston and Dorothy McColl, both residing in Laroch on the 16th of May 1842.

I was under the impression that for a marriage to be recognised in Scotland around this time that it had to take place in the Church of Scotland so maybe that's the reason for the report in the Duror records. Then again, I may be mixing it up with England where marriages had to take place in the Church of England at a certain time.


Kaye
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