Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:54 pm

Hey Donald,

It's been awhile since I have logged on so I am trying to catch up on all you have written (It's been really busy at work). We do know that Effie and her kids probably landed in Ohio, more specifically, Scioto County after they immigrated to the U.S. because Effie's daughter Margaret (aka Peggy) married Hugh Burke in Scioto County in 1852. So I believe that they had a destination when they arrived in America and it was probably Scioto/Lawrence Counties, Ohio. She was the earliest one to get married.


Just a quick note. Have to get back to work.

Kristen :D
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:17 am

Hi Kristen,

Good point about the daughter of Effie that married Hugh Burke in Scioto County in 1852. That is indeed just a year or so after Effie and her family arrived in America, so yes they definitely as you say must have originally planned to connect with the old widow Kate who Effie lived beside in Achabegg, Morvern and her son Angus and the other Livingston family members living with Angus and his mother kate who had been living in Scioto County since the late 1840's including Angus Livington's wife Margaret, Angus Livingston's brothers Duncan Livingston Jr. and another John Livingston all living together with Angus and his wife Margaret according to the 1850 U.S. Census in Vernon Twp, Scioto County, Ohio. We may not have all the pieces in the puzzle, but I think we have been fortunate that there is some interesting family information that has been pieced together so far to help make some sense of a possible connection between these two Livingston families from Morvern, Argyll. Your research info and Stephens has really been a big help with my earlier research of the Scioto County Livingstons. I was not aware at all of the Lawrence County Livingstons and Hugh and Effie Livingston before you contacted this forum. We had been discussing Duncan Livingston 1850-1910 of Scioto County, Ohio and his family history and i had been contacted several years ago with information regarding Betty McInnes daughter of Myles Mcinnes and her husband Donald Livingston of Morvern who may have a brother or relative of your ancestor Hugh Livingston and apparently an Aunt and Uncle of the above mentioned Duncan Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio who visited old Aunt Betty in 1899 in Lochaline, Morvern.

I can't really thank you enough for making contact with Stephen and helping to get a fourth Morvern Livingston descendant participating in our Clan's DNA project. The results clearly indicate that my Morvern Livingstons are somehow related to your and Stephen's 18th century Livingston ancestors in the Morvern area of Argyll quite likely as I suspected. Until we test a direct descendant of Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern, having tested Stephen with his ancestral connection most probably to Donald's brother Hugh (Ewen) Livingston was obviously the next best thing.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:55 pm

Hi Kristen,

Some census info with the Livingstons and the Burkes showing their connection over the years both in Morvern, Argyll and subsequently in Ohio.

William Burke and Sarah Livington a son Hugh Burke born March 30, 1824 Morvern Parish Church of Scotland records

1841 Scottish Census Achabegg, Morvern, Argyll (In 1845 they joined Angus Livingston in Ohio and his family.
Catharine Livingston age 65 (mother of Angus Livingston)
Duncan Livingston age 30 (brother of Angus Livingston)
William Burke age 13 (son of William Burke Sr. and Sarah Livingston, brother of Hugh)

1850 U.S Census Vernon Township, Scioto County, Ohio
A. Livingston (Angus Livingston)
Margaret Livingston (wife of Angus Livingston)
Duncan Livingston age 1 born Ohio (future lawyer, Livingston family historian and author)
Catharine Livingston age 65 born Scotland (mother of Angus, Duncan and John) Note: Not 65 closer to age 75 in 1850.
Duncan Livingston age born Scotland son of Catharine
John Livingston age born Scotland Son of Catharine
William Burke age born Scotland son of William Burke and Sarah Livingston Burke
Hugh Burke age born Scotland son of William Burke and Sarah Livingston Burke

1860 U.S Census Iron Valley, Milton Township, Jackson County, Ohio
William Burk (Sr) farmer age 80 born abt. 1780 Scotland
Sarah L. Burk age 74 born abt. 1786 Scotland (Sarah Livingston Burke)
(parents of William Burke Jr. and Hugh Burke mentioned above)
According to Ohio lawyer Duncan Livingston 1850-1910, Sarah Livingston Burke and her sister Mary Livingston Boyd were elderly nieces of Donald Livingston 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern who had told him stories they had been told in their youth from old Donald Livingstone himself when they lived in Morvern. He also mentioned that they were daughters of Ewen (Hugh) Livingston and that over the years he had got his family info from a number of Livingstons connected to this Ewen Livingston who was from my research discovered was recorded with Donald as Hugh Livingston in the 1779 Argyll census residing in Savary, Morvern. No information survives of a birth or death date for Ewen (Hugh) Livingston of Savary unfortunately.

1900 U.S. Census Ironton Ward 5 Lawrence County, Ohio
John Livingston age 65 b. March 1835 immigration year 1851
Alice Livingston age 43 wife born Kentucky
Hugh C. Livingston age 11 born Ohio
Samuel G. Livingston age 9 born Ohio
Margaret B. Livingston age 7 Ohio
Anna Livingston age 56 (sister of John Livingston) born Scotland
Hugh Burk age 79 born Scotland


regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:55 am

Hi Kristen,
In one of earlier posts, you were considering the possibility of your ancestor Hugh Livingston being possibly the Hugh Livington son of John Livingston and Cirsty McNevin who was born in 1810 at Fernish, Morvern. That Hugh as of now can be ruled out as I am now in touch with two of his ancestors. This Hugh Livingston remained in Scotland and married a Mary McKinnon in the 1830's and one of the descendants in the latest member of our Parker Livingston DNA group and apparently there are indications that they were actually a Mull Livingston family that only briefly lived at Fernish Morvern in the early 1800's and later returned to Mull. The DNA results I think are suggesting also a Mull Livington connection rather than a Morvern connection. So we can eliminate that Hugh Livingston as being your ancestor. This Hugh also died in Scotland in 1867 and he has a death record confirming his parents as John Livington and Catharine McNiven and wife Mary McKinnon. I only found out the details of this Hugh Livingston by coincidence one of the ones you had mentioned in the past, last week, when I contacted this Hugh Livingstons descendants inquiring about details of his ancestral origins.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby jmlivingstone » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:09 pm

Donald/Kristen,

Hugh Livingstone is buried in Oban Church burial ground, inscription on the stone is as follows;

In Memoriam

Hugh Livingstone, Shepherd.

Native of Morvern.

Died in Kilchoan, Oct. 1868 Age 59.

Also his wife Mary McKinnon.

Who died in Oban May 1865 Age 51.

Also their sons John and Archibald who died in Oban.

It is not on the gravestone, but Hugh is listed as being b. 23 Sept. 1810 at Morvern, Hugh d. 05 Nov. 1867 & Archibald d. 11 Dec.1907.

There was also another son named Hugh, b. abt. 1804, who must have died a child,

There is further info on this family on the Mull Families site, supplied mainly by Phyllis Pettitt, who I believe lives in Australia/New Zealand,


John.
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

Hi John,
It is an interesting coincidence that Hugh son of John Livingston and Cirsty McNiven which Kristen was wondering about in her search for the parents of her Achabegg, Morvern ancestor Hugh Livingston agricultural labourer 1811-1848? Hugh's wife Euphemia Campbell and her family following the death of her husband Hugh sometime between 1846 and 1849 died possibly as result of disease which was rampant in Morvern during the potato crop failure period which seriously impacted both Morvern and Mull area tenants in a number of ways. Sometime before 1851 Hugh's widow and the children end leaving the croft at Achabegg, Morvern and in being homeless the family is resettled in the slum residences in Lochaline where the poor and dispossessed tenants in MOrvern were ending up if they remained in Morvern. A few months after the 1851 Census taker recorded Euphemia and her children in Lochaline Morvern, Hughs widow and all of her children left for America to join her husband's mother Catharine (Cameron) Livingston (Mrs DUncan Livingston) and her brother in law Angus Livingston as son of this Catharine Livingston who by 1851 were all living in Scioto County, Ohio. Catharine arrived in the 1840's in Ohio to live with her son Angus with her son Duncan Jr. There is actually no birth record for Euphemia's husband Hugh Livingston because the minister by mistake did not write in his correct name in 1811.He was likely however born at Barr, Morvern in 1811 as we know the mentioned Angus Livingston was born in 1808 and Hugh's other brother who settled in Ohio in the 1840s, Duncan Livingston Jr formerly of Achabegg, Morvern was born in 1810 at Barr, Morvern according to the Morvern Parish. I believe that a subsequent 1811 birth record for a second Duncan Livingston born to parents Duncan Sr. and Catharine Livingston is an entry error and should have stated that a son Hugh was born in 1811 in Barr, morvern. I think that Kristen is also wondering if that error likely occurred. I have noticed another occasion in the early 1800's Morvern entries where Rev. McLeod the Church of Scotland minister has made a similar entry error recording the wrong name of the Livingston child born. So it quite possible. It was Jewel Brown and her cousin the late Roberta Livingstone that first brought to my attention one of these Ohio Livingston families of Achabegg, Morven origin. It was only much more recently that I discovered there were two related Livingston families residing in neighbouring crofts circa 1841. In the 1841 Census at Achabegg, Morvern you have in one croft the widow Catharine (Cameron) Livingston (Mrs. DUncan Liivinston) and her son Duncan Livingston Jr. b. 1810 In the neighbouring croft you have Hugh Livingston before he died presumingly the son of his neighbour Catharine Livingston widow and living in this second croft with his wife Euphemia Campbell and their children. By 1851 all of these Livingstons from both Achabegg, Morvern crofts are residing in Ohio.
**************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Hugh Livingston b. 1810 of Fernish, Morvern
I think in the case now of the Hugh Livingston b. 1810 of Fernish, Morvern the ancestor of Phyllis Livingston there is very likely a Mull Livingston origin to this family that lived for a time in Morvern at Fernish in the early 1800's and then moved on to Lettermore, Mull and I think that Phyllis also suspects her Livingstons have a Morvern connection. The Morvern and Mull Maclea Livingstons we know from the Parker Livingston matches that our LIvingstons ultimately share a common family origin in Western Argyllshire at some in point in the more distant past. That being said some are clearly more closely related to one another than others with Morvern Livingstons more closely related to other Morvern Livingstons and Mull Livingstons more closely related to other Mull Livingstons.
The most exciting news I just found out about last week is that Phyllis LIvingston's brother Iain is a match with the Parker Livingstons. Phyllis believes that although the parents of this Hugh Livingston b. 1810 in Fernish, Morvern, John Livingston and Cirsty McNiven resided in Morvern in the early 1800's, by 1815 by the time of the birth of their son James they had moved to Lettermore in Kilninian and Kilmore Parish and maybe have a earlier family connection in neighbouring Mull. I noticed that she also suspected that John and Cirsty or at least John Livingston was born in Mull. We only have the results from at 37 marker test but comparing my Livingston cousin's results and his closest match at a very close 67-1 of Killundine, Morvern origin, the "closest" matches results with Mull Livingston ancestry of 4 Livingston Nova Scotia and PEI Livingstons of Mull origin they all seem to be more or less the same equal distant as group with my Morvern Livingston cousin an his closest match at 37-3 or 37-4 and at 67 markers all are interestly a consistent 67-4 at least these 4 Atlantic Canada Livingstons of Mull origin. With two of them at 37-3 is Phyllis Livingston's brother Iain. If Iains ancestor was from one of the Mull settlements in close proximity to where the Atlantic Canada Livingstons ancestor came and were somehow then related to one Mull Livingston family group then it might explain Iain's 37-3 result. We won't know for sure what a 67 marker result will be until a 67 marker test is done but at the moment when I look at cousin's results I see the 4 Atlantic Canada Livingstons of Mull family origin at 67-4 and the four of them were either 37-3 or 37-4 compared to my Morvern Livingston cousin's results. So odds are good that if Iain and Shirley's ancestor is of Mull Livingston origin and connected to a Mull Livingston family somehow related to one or all of these Atlantic Canada Livingstons the group of four then we may well see a result at 67-4 or perhaps 67-5 when compared to the results of my cousin of Morvern Livingston ancestry. Everyones matches with the Parker Livingston group tend to vary quite a bit in terms of the genetic distance matches but these four in particular were 2 at a distance of 37-3 and 2 at a distance of 37-4 in the case of my cousin's results. So my hunch anyways is that a 67 marker test may help to confirm a Mull Livingston family connection for Iain if a 67 marker test did indicate a similar genetic distance of these particular Mull Livingstons who have already done the 67 maker test.

For more info on Kristen and her cousin Stephen Livingston's interesting MOrvern ancestry see the Achabegg Livingston posts. This one under Archibald Livingston of (Killundine, MOrvern) was based on the fact that Kristen back was researching the possibility that her ancestor Hugh Livingston might have been the son of an Archibald Livingston of Killundine, Morvern. Since then however information has come to light which suggests that Hugh Livingston's name was accidentally not recorded on his 1811 birth record to parents Duncan Livingston and Catharine (Cameron) Livingston and we have found some compelling U.S. evidence including a 1899 letter from Scotland that gives us the notion that Hugh was the brother of Angus and Duncan Livingston Jr. sons of Duncan Livingston and Catharine (Cameron) Livingston. The widow Catharine Livingston, Angus, her son Duncan and one older son John all left Scotland and settled in America in the 1840's. Hugh died in Scotland sometime between 1846 and 1848 leaving his wife and family in poverty and subsequenty removed from croft at Achabegg Morvern and compelled to live in the slum housing for the poor and dispossessed tenants the exist at time in Lochaline, Morvern. A few years later in 1851 we have shipping records that the widow Euphemia Campbell Livingston and her children left for America by ship and joined their former neighbour at Achabegg, the widow Catharine Livingston, her likely husbands brother Angus and Duncan and older brother John in 1851 in Scioto County, Ohio where the others had settled by the late 1840's. By the 1860's Euphemia and family were residing in neighbouring Lawrence County, Ohio.

regards,

Donald
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