Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Public Forum for anyone interested in tracing their roots.
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.
Maverick1975
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 pm
Location: Aabybro, Denmark but from Texas and Indiana originally

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Maverick1975 »

Donald,

You got sucked into the genealogy black hole last night didn't you? ;)

I am still processing all of the information you wrote about yesterday BUT based on you confirming Duncan the lawyer as being the author I am thinking that Duncan's father, Hugh (Effie's Hugh who died in Scotland) and Betty's husband were all brothers???? Am I way off? Of course that supposed that Betty was really their Aunt and that Duncan and Anna (Effie's daughter) weren't second or third cousins. If what I suspect is true, then we have our connection????

Kristen
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,
No I have to say that I don't see the information in the letter as confusing at all to me. If anything the letter adds more clarity to a theory I have held regarding a family of Morvern Livingstons for a couple of years now. The only new thing is that your Hugh Livingston may be a son of a Duncan Livingston and Catharine Cameron of Morvern and possibly not the parents of Archibald Livingston as we earlier thought. I think that Stephen may be correct that Archibald is not your Hugh Livingston's father. Unfortunately some of the birth records may be missing and I have been working with a puzzle with a lot of pieces missing for the last couple of years but there is enough here to at the very least to say it probable that Bettty's husband Donald Livingston of MOrvern , Angus Livingston, Hugh Livingston were brothers, despite the lack of documentation proving that 100 percent. The information in the letter makes total sense and the letter is I think is an essential piece in the puzzle regarding the connection between the Scioto and Lawrence County Livingstons and their family connection to the Betty Livingston's husband the late Donald Livingston.

I have a copy of Betty's 1912 obituary published in the Oban Times where it said that Betty's deceased husband Donald Livingston was a direct descendant of a brother (Hugh Livingston) of the famous 1746 Jacobite Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary. No I am couldn't be happier that you contacted Stephen and he shared the letter. Why and who the writer of the letter was it is perfectly clear and I knew of Old Aunt Betty and actually have her lengthly 1912 obituary from the Oban Times. She was a much respected and admired elderly person in Morvern, born way back in 1818 Betty Mcinnes in Savary, Morvern son of Miles Mcinnes who by the way in the 1840's was then living also at Achbeg, Morvern .Betty McInnes married her husband Donald Livingston in the 1820's or 1830's. I am not sure that there is a surviving marriage record. In the 1841 Morvern census you can see that Betty her husband Donald Livingston and their Livingston children are living with Betty's widowed father Miles McInnr at Achabeg. Note that your Hugh Livingston and his wife Effy were also residing in Achabegg, Morvern in 1841 before Hugh later died and Effy and the children left for America. Look at this all as working with pieces of a puzzle with some of them missing. This family history of yours i like a puzzle with many of pieces missing and we are left with the challenge to find enough of them that this all makes sense. I am very sorry for any confusion, but I am pretty sure the simple explanation to all this is that your Hugh Livingston is not the son of Archibald as Stephen is suggesting and most importantly that Betty's husband Donald b. 1805 or 1806 of Morvern, Argyll, your Hugh Livingston husband of Iffy Livingston of Lawrence County, Ohio and Angus Livingston b. 1808 father of Lawyer and family historian traveller and 1899 letter writer Duncan Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio were very likely brothers. The idea that Hugh was one of these brothers is new to me but the notion that Bettys husband Donald of Morvern and Angus Livingston the furnace man who settled in Vernon Township, Scioto County, OHIo in the 1840's with his widowed mother Catharine(Cameron) Livingston I discussed a few years ago. I am though not surprised with our recent discussion that your Lawrence County Hugh Livingston and Angus the furnace man of Scioto County Ohio could be closely related even brothers. I think the information was suggesting they might be related back in Morvern, Argyll and this 1899 letter written by Angus Livingston's son Duncan absolutely convinces me of that close Morvern Livingston family connection. Angus Livingston's widowed mother Catharine Livingston who is living with him in Scioto County Ohio in the 1850 U.S census is i think the mother of both Angus the furnace man and Effy's deceased husband Hugh Livingston I suspect.

Definitely the Duncan who wrote that letter was your Ann Livingston's first cousin Duncan the known Morvern Livingston family historian and 1896 family author born in Scioto County, Ohio Ann's brother Duncan son of Hugh Livingston. The writer of the letter definitely the Duncan son of Angus and margaret Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio. Ann's first cousin Duncan Livingston. But the letter definitely shows once again that these the Scioto and your Lawrence County Livingston were closely related and kept in touch which I think is what we were looking for. As most of the research info I have is on the Scioto County Livingston and their connection to other Livingston then I though using that knowledge gained over the last couple of years I think would help to eventually links your Lawrence County Livingstons and I think with this letter that is what is happening. The letter confirms some of the things I had determined a year or two ago and I can't tell just how important that letter is that research that I have done and also I think establishing that your relative Ann Livingston was likely a first cousin of the Scioto Duncan Livingston that knew had gone in 1899 to visit his Morvern relatives and collect more family info for family research. I knew from having read that 1903 Scotio county bio on Lawyer Duncan lIivngson and his family that he went to Scotland in the year 1899. His biographer mentioned it and his love of Scottish history and family history. Having read his bio some years ago I knew exactly which Duncan wrote the letter

Yes definitely to the notion that old Morvern resident Betty (Mcinnes's) husband Donald Livingston born abt. 1805 or 1806, son of a Catharine Cameron and Duncan Livingston was the brother of Angus Livingston who came to Scioto County Ohio in the 1840's and was the father of the writer of this letter and as well quite likely the brother of your ancestor Hugh Livingston. Betty Mcinne Livingston's husband Donald Livingston died in the 1870's in Morvern and his death record information states that his mother and father were Catharine Cameron and Duncan Livingson. Like many Livingstons in Morvern Catharine Cameron and her husband Duncan Livingston moved around Morvern settlement over the years. I believe that Catharine Cameron Livingston who as a widow in the 1840's lived lastly in Achabeg, MOrvern according to the 1841 Census and in the 1840s' I found out was contacted by her son Angus Llvingston and she joined him in Ohio where she her sons John and Duncan joined son Angus Livingston a furnace man in Vernon County, Scioto County where she see them all in the 1850 Ohio census with A. Livingston Angus Livingston his wife Margaret Livingston and a baby son Duncan Livingston the future lawyer and Livingston family historian and and Scottish history author of that amazing 1899 letter.

Sorry I know it is a bit confusing. No I am not talking for the moment regarding the Lawrence County Livingston, but the next step will be to connect to to all this. For the moment I am talking about Duncan Livingston of the Scotio County who in 1899 went to Scotland and wrote that letter to his cousin of Ann of your Lawrence County Livingston family. So first of all that proves that the Lawrence County Livingston family are related. So first thing for sure is that the Duncan that wrote the letter to his cousin Ann is Duncan Livingston b. 1850 lawyer, author of the 1896 Celtic Monthly article son of Angus Livingston the furnace worker born 1808 of Barr, Morvern who came to America in 1842 and later in the 1840's settled with his widowed mother Catharine (Cameron) Livingston and his brothers Duncan and John in Vernon Township, Scioto County, Ohio See 1850 U.S census.

The letter is significant in terms of your Livingston line that it confirms what we suspected that Duncan Livingston lawyer and Livingston family researcher in the 1890's and who I have documentation went to Morvern Argyll, Scotland in 1899 visited relatives and as the letter mentions the burial site of his cousin Ann's father's Hugh Livingston unmarked burial mound. Sadly there is no gravestone for this Hugh Livingston today. Most of the Morvern Livingston, many that were buried there over the years have no gravestones marking their sites in Kiel Cemetery just a few of the many that were buried there in the 1800's and before that. No I am pretty certain that letter was written by Duncan Livingston of the Scotio County Livingsons son of Angus and Margaret Livingston his parents born in Scotland but who settled in Vernon Township, Scioto County, Ohio and written from Morvern in 1899 where we know this Scioto County Duncan was visiting his kin. The letter was clearly written to Ann Livingston of Effy Campbell an Hugh Livingston and clearly suggests to me that this Ann is Scioto County Duncan Livingston's first cousin which is precisely what we were trying to prove. This Ohio LawyerDuncan had heard as a child from his Livingston relatives in America from Morvern origin, descended from Hugh Livingston of Savary Morvern brother of the famous Donald Livingston of Savary Morvern. That is where the Hugh comes originally from your Livingston family line. i have no doubt your ancestor was Hugh Livingston brother of the famous Donald Livingston which I suspected all along.

Anyways these two articles one written in 1903 in Scioto County Ohio on Duncan Livingstone talks about his father Angus Livingson who settled in Scioto County Ohio and his family at the end of the article about Duncan Livingstone interest in his ancestry in Scotland, that he became fluent in Gaelic and that in 1899 he visited his relatives in Scotland.

Also I have the Celtic Monthly article a Scottish history journal from article written by the same Duncan Livingston of Ohio in 1896 written on the Battle of Culloden but in which he eventually talks about his relatives in Ohio in New York State who were from Morvern and who were related to Hugh Livingston brother of the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary Movern who was at the Battle of Culloden with Bonnie Prince Charlies army in 1746.

I will try to include some of old articles I refer to and mentioned later. Hope when you read these it will all make more sense. i also have Betty McInnes Livingston's 1912 obituary, the Betty Livingston Aunt Betty that the Duncan born in Scioto County is clearly talking about and will eventually try to send that as well for you and Stephen to see some of the excellent research info I found regarding these connected Livingstons. My work has been over the last couple of years trying to connect the Scioto County Livingstons lawyer Duncan and father Angus to this Betty which I think I have done. I did not know of the Walker County family you have to realize way back then, but since being introduced to your Walker County family group and most recently to that 1899 letter written to your relative Ann Livingston I think it quite clear to me that Betty Livingston's husband Donald Livingston, Duncan Livingston's father Angus Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio and Hugh Livingston husband of Effy Campbell were brothers and all sons of a Cathrine Cameron Livingston who as an elderly widow Catharine settled with son Angus in SCioto County Ohio in the 1840's. Do all of their birth records survive proofing they were brothers? No but anyone researching the Morvern Livingstons has the problem that many of the birth records are missing. How do I know that Betty's husband Donald Livington was the son of Catherine Cameron and Donald Livingston that is included in his death record in the 1870's.



regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen and Stephen,

Examing the 1899 Letter from Lochaline, Morvern from Duncan Livingston to Ann Livingston you have kindly shared with me this is what I am can tell you about it.

IN 1899 Duncan Livingstone (1850- ) born abt. 1850 in Vernon Township, SCioto County, Ohio son of Angus Livington born 1808 in Barr, Morvern and Margaret Livingston Invernesshire, Scotland, travelled to Scotland and stayed for about three months according to an 1903 Scioto County biography written of former Scioto County, Ohio resident lawyer Duncan Livingston. Duncan's cousin Ann Livingston was the daughter of late Effy Campbell of neighbouring Lawrence County, Ohio and the late Hugh Livingston of Achabeg, MOrvern, apparently a brother of Angus Livingston. In the course of my research of this Ohio Livingston Angus Livingston, I concluded a while back that Angus likely was the son of a Catharine Cameron of Scioto County, Ohio formerly of Achabegg, Morvern and her late husband Duncan Livingston. The 1799 letter was written to lawyer and family historian Duncan Livingston's first cousin Ann Livingston daughter of Iffy Campbell and late Hugh Livingston for certain.

He begins by mentioning that he visited with his elderly "Aunt Betty" who was Betty McInnes 1818-1912 born in Savary, MOrvern, daughter of Miles McInnes and Catharine Livingston who married in the 1820's or 1830's Donald Livingston son of Catharine Cameron and Duncan Livingston. I have a copy of a lengthy 1912 obituary published in the Oban times regarding this Betty McInnes Livingston wife of Donald Livingston. Perhaps most interesting regarding Betty's obituary is that it mentions her deceased husband Donald who died in the 1870's was a descendant of a brother of Donald Livingston of Savary's brother (Hugh). So if the 1912 info is true regarding Betty's husband's interesting Savary, Livingston ancestry, then I think you can see the probable Livingston family ancestral connection to Ohio Lawyer Duncan Livingston of Scioto County Ohio and his father Angus Livingston born 1808 at that time his parents of Angus resided in Barr, Morvern where some Savary Livingstons had moved to over the years working as agricultural laborers. A good many of the Livingstons in Morvern in the 1800's were recorded as "agricultural labourers" or "paupers".

Of special interest to Lawrence County Livingston descendants of the late Hugh Livingston and his wife Effy Campbell is that Duncan Livingston mentions to his cousin Ann that he visited old Kiel Cemetery in Morvern where Savary and other related Livingston families were buried for in the 18th and 19th century and their ancestors likely before that. He talks about locating the grave of Ann's father (Hugh Livingston) who died sometime between 1841 and 1851 likely at his family
croft in Achabegg, Morvern. Describing her father's grave he describes it as a "green mound in good order" indicating I think that the family did not have a gravestone made which I discovered in my research of 18th and 19th century Morvern Livingstons buried in that cemetery seems to have been the case for most of the many Livingstons apparently buried in that old cemetery. Aunt Betty who died in 1912 and her husband Donald Livingston have a lovely granite monument. Of interest is the ornate 18th century table tomb, Donald Livingstone of Savary Morvern had made for his parents John Livingston and Ann Mcinnes who died before 1760. Every Livingston who visits that old Morvern Cemetery takes a picture of that grave. John Livingston and Ann McInnes were the parents of Donald Livingstone and his brother Hugh Livingston of Savary and another brother Angus Livingston who according to Duncan livingston lawyer and historian died in April of 1746 on the Battlefield of Culloden in a heroic effort to assist a fallen Jacobite soldier. Old Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 was known to have been a great story teller and many of stories regarding old Donald were likely from Donald himself and passed on to his relatives like Duncan Livingston's aunts and uncles from Morvern who settled in America according to Duncan years later. These stories he heard as a child and all through his life apparently which fostered his own interest in his scottish family history, led to him writing an article in a scottish family history journal in 1896 and his desire to learn to speak gaelic fluently which he did.

I notice also that Duncan connected with a number of McInnes relatives as well while visiting Morvern in 1899. He would no doubt have lots of those. A number of Livingstons connected to Savary, Morvern over the years had married with members of Clan McInnes family and vice versa. As earlier mentioned the famous donald Livingstone 1728-1816 was the son of a John Livingstone and Ann McInnes. His parents as mentioned are buried in Kiel Cemetery he speaks of in the letter as our many of your and Stephen's Livingston and McInnes ancestors I have little doubt. As a matter of fact i have no doubt that you and Stephen Livingston are descended from this John Livingston and Ann Livingston who died before 1760 in Morvern and are buried in Kiel Cemetery.

Also mentioned is William Burke jr and his brother Hugh who are living with living with Duncan's father Angus Livingston and his wife Margaret in 1850 according to the Ohio census in Vernon Township, Scioto County, Ohio with Angus, his wife Margaret, baby Duncan Livingston, his grandmother Catharine (Cameron) Livingston along with two brothers of Angus whom he encouraged along with his widowed mother Catharine to leave Morvern around 1845 and join him in Ohio where he would find work in his trade, Angus got into when living in lowland Lanarkshire in the 1830's and early 40's in furnace work. Duncan's father Angus Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio came to America in 1842. Hope this helps.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

I have always suspected that there was possibility your ancestor Hugh Livingston was named after 18th century Savary, Morvern resident Hugh Livingston of Savary, Morvern brother of Donald Livingstone 1728-1816. So in the back of head was the notion to find some way to link your Lawrence County Livingston connected to Hugh and his wife Effy Campbell to this Hugh Livingston born in the earlier part of the 18th century likely in Savary like his more famous brother Donald. With Duncan Livingston commenting in 1899 about his Aunt Betty it just fit perfectly with my earlier theory that Angus Livingston of Morvern and his family in Scioto County, Ohio includes the Burke boys were somehow connected to this Hugh Livingston which is basically what Duncan Livingston talks about in one part of his 1896 article on the Rebellion of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden which he was published in the Celtic monthly a few years before he wrote the 1899 letter and had gone to Morvern.

I think Stephen is right about your ancestor Hugh Livingston being descended from another Livingston family in Morvern and it took this letter for me the see what I did not see before that your Hugh and Lawyer Duncan's father Angus were probably brothers. I thought from when you first introduced me to your ancestor Hugh that your Livingston were connected to the neighbouring Scioto County Livingston but I must admit I did not see that Hugh and Angus were brothers but of course there are not surviving birth records for either of them which is probably is the truth of the matter. The only reason I have birth date for scioto County Angus Livingston of 1808 in Barr, Morvern is that Duncan told his Scioto County Biographers in 1903 when a short bio was included in ah story of Scioto County Ohio history. I have no birth records for my Livingston ancestor either. They were lost apparently before 1803.

I am inclined to think then that the late Hugh Livingston who died int he 1840s' in Morvern is the son of widow Catharine (Cameron ) Livingston whom his mother whom his brother Angus Livingston of Scotio County, Ohio invited her to join him in America around 1845. Angus Livingston;s mother is likely the Catharine Cameron who was married to Duncan livingston and they are the parents of Betty Livingston's late husband Donald Livingston as mentioned in his death record. I am reasonably certain then that betty Mcinnes Livingston and her late husband Donald Livingston were his Aunt and Uncle as the 1899 letter clearly suggests to me and the as far as your family goes that "Ann Livingston" is a neice of Betty and this late Donald Livingston of Morvern and Duncan Livingston cousin of Ann from Scioto County, Ohio author of the letter is Betty' and the late Donald Livingston's nephew.


regards,

Donald
johnbuchan
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:30 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by johnbuchan »

Donald
I am pleased that the 1899 letter from Duncan Livingstone to "cousin Annie Livingstone" offers so many clues. I had no idea of its potential usefulness in connecting dots of our family history. I am not well versed myself in Livingston family history and will need to study your posts. I am glad that Kristen (aka ckmaverick1975) suggested I explore the Clan website. Thank you, Kristen!

I appreciate very much the way you report on your research and thinking. I am learning a lot! I see that you feel confident that Kristen and I are descended from John and Ann Livingston who died before 1760. I look forward to exploring the evidence for that connection.

There is no doubt that the addressee of the 1899 letter was Anna Livingston, sister of John Livingston and daughter of Hugh and Effie. Here are some facts about its provenance: It was among papers passed down from my great-grandfather John Livingston (1835-1901) and his widow Alice to my grandfather Samuel and then to my father William and then to me. John's sister, Anna or Annie or Ann (she signed her name "Anna"), never married and lived in the John Livingston household for decades. I understand that census records bear that out. Also I have at least three affidavits she signed in support of applications for pensions and probate in which she attests to her decades of acquaintance with John and his wife and children.
Thank you,
Stephen
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Stephen,

As I mentioned to Kristen when she told me that her Livingston settled in Ohio it caught my attention. When she was said that they settled in Lawrence County, Ohio next door to the Scioto County LIvingstons another MOrvern Livingston family I truly wondered if there might be some connection between the two families back in MOrvern. I then went back to the Scottish census records I saw that there appeared to be the possibility of a family connection in 1840's Achabegg, Morvern and possibly long before that.

What I knew however before Kristen first visited the forum is what I had found out about the prominent Ohio Lawyer and Livingston family historian, Duncan Livingston (1850-1910) and his MOrvern Livingston roots. In the case of Duncan's family it helped in the research that a history of prominent people who were born or had lived in Scioto County Ohio was published in 1903. It told a detailed story of Duncan's father and the family origins in Scotland and Duncan's father Angus encouraging his widowed mother Catharine (Cameron) Livingston and his two brothers one named John and the other another Duncan Livingston. Angus came to New York City by boat around 1842, his mom and the two brothers and apparently the two Burke boys William and Hugh around 1845 and it looks like old Angus Livingston married his fiancé Margaret Livingston and then the group of them ended up in Scioto County, Ohio. Duncan's father Angus had left Morvern apparently in the 1830's found work in Lanarkshire where he is living at the time of 1841 Census working as a furnace man. He arrives in New York City in 1842 goes to see his Uncle John Livingston b. 1773 in Oneida county, Ny and then he eventually ends up in a few years with his kin in Vernon Township,Scioto County, Ohio where young Duncan Livingston their only child is born abt. 1850. Duncan later a lawyer in Ohio never married and his fathers two brothers that joined his father in America never married so no descendants of the Scioto County Livingston family I am afraid.

Prior this 1903 Scioto County History of local people like Duncan LIivnsgston however Duncan Livingston himself something of Morvern Livingston family historian and fluent in Scottish gaelic published an three part article in the a Scottish history journal called the Celtic Monthly in the year 1896. His article in three parts was included in Celtic Monthly Volume 4 Issue No.5 Feb. 1896 pgs 91-93, Issue no 6 March 1896 pgs 119-120 and Issue No.7 April 1896 pgs 131-133 The Article was called, "The History of the Appin Stewarts at Culloden". While the article largely focuses on the Jacobite Appin Regiment at Culloden and Donald Livingstone our most famous Morvern clansman who was present at this decisive battle in April of 1746 which pretty much put an end to Bonnie Prince Charlie's hopes to restore the Stuart family to the throne. What was really interesting however to Morvern Livingston family researchers about this 1896 article is the information included about Donald Livingstone and his interesting the information that Duncan's editor seems to add in near at the end of the second part of the article on page 120. This I think you and your cousin Kristen may find interesting and the main reason why I have been making an effort to connect your family and Kristens to MOrvern Livingstons that I believe are descended from Donald LIvingstone's brother Hugh or Ewen Livingston as most in Morvern back in the day likely called him. You and Kristen may find this excerpt from part 2 of the above mentioned article of Duncan Livingston of Ohio interesting:


The History of the Stewart of Appin At Culloden Part 2 by Duncan Livingstone of Ohio, USA
Celtic Monthly, Volume 4 Issue 6 March 1896 pg. 120

(This final bit seems to have been added to the article Duncan wrote by his editor at the time I think and if so I am glad he did.)
Pg. 120
"The story of the preservation of the Appin Banner at Culloden the author has often heard when a child from two nieces of Donald Livingstone, Mary Livingstone Boyd and Sarah Livingstone Burke, who got the same from the lips of Donald himself. The former Mrs. Boyd who died in the early part the sixties and latter Mrs Burke in the early part of the seventies both at a ripe old age. They were daughters of his brother Eoghan or Ewan ( or Hugh). He also heard when a child and after arriving at manhood from eight other descendants of Ewan among whom the story is well known, as well as from several persons familiar with the tradition of Morvern."


If you have been following some of the previous posts you may have learned if you did not know already that the Hugh and William Burke mentioned in your 1899 letter were the sons of William Burke Sr. and his wife Sarah Livington who was I think Uncle and Aunt of lawyer Duncan Livingston of the Scioto County Livingston family and probably the your Ann Livingston relative mentioned the letter, your ancestor John Livingston and Kristen's Livington ancestor Catharine Livingston of the Lawrence County Livingston family. As Kristen pointed out to me their son Hugh Burke interestingly enough married Margaret (Peggy) Livingston daughter of the widow Effy Livingston widow of Lawrence County, Ohio connecting these two Livington by marriage.

While as you can imagine I was disappointed a while back when I discovered there was no chance to find a descendant of the SCioto County Livingstons as they had died out with Duncan in 1910 to may surprise Kristen arrived at the forum informing that the descendants of the Lawrence County Ohio Morvern Livingstons are very much alive and well. It is indeed a luck break that both of you are very interested an highly motivated regarding your family history. If not I would not likely have found out about the Lawrence County Livingston as I now have or have found out about this amazing letter your family kept and preserved all these years.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Kristen and Stephen,
Having read about Duncan Livingston visiting with his Aunt Betty in 1899 at Lochaline, Morvern here is more on this Betty Livingston of Lochaline, Morvern. (Spelled either Morvern or Morven you may find in the records)
Here is Betty Livingston's - Aunt Betty's 1912 obituary published in Oban Times of Oban, Argyll

Death of Mrs Donald Livingstone of Lochaline From the January 1912 Oban Times

On Wednesday of last week Mrs. Donald Livingstone the oldest inhabitant in Morven and most venerable person in the parish passed peacefully away. She was born in Savary, Morvern on the 18th of January 1818 where her father was tenant. She thus attained the patriarchal age of 94. In many respects a most remarkable woman. For thing her father was Myles McInnes. The MacInneses, it is said, had their original seat in Morven. From Morven some of the clan migrated to Skye and elsewhere. But from the 12th century till within a recent period the MacInneses were the predominate partners in Morven. Kinlochaline Castle in MOrven is the clan castle and it is by tradition said to have been built by a lady called "Dubh-dhall" as far back as the times of the Crusades. During the time of the Danish incursions on the West Highlands, there were several skirmishes between these foreigners and the MacInneses. But only traces we have now of the Danes are confined to a few Scandinavian names.
Donull Molach
Mr Donald Livingstone, the husband of Mrs Livingstone, predeceased her by many years. HIs great grand-uncle was the famous Donald Livingstone who played such a heroic part on the day of Culloden. He is known in the Highland story as Donull Molach or Hairy Donald. He went to Culloden with the Stewarts of Appin. On the disastrous day of the battle there was a determined attempt made to wrest the Stewart flag from the Highlanders. The first standard bearer was shot down on the first charge and no less than nine successive standard bearers were killed. When the last of them had fallen, Donald Livingstone tore the flag from the flag-staff and wrapping it, bloodstained and riddled with bullets as it was, round his body and under his jacket, escaped and bore it back to Morven The standards of no less than twelve Highland Clans were taken that day, and shortly afterwards burned at Market Cross, Edinburgh. But thanks to the heroic bravery of Donald Livingstone, the Stewart flag is still preserved. After the battle, this mans house and mill at Savary was burned by orders of Cumberland, whom Alex MacDonald, the Ardnamurchan bard, called the Butcher owing to his cruelty after the battle. For six months Donald Livingstone had to seek refuge in a cave till a general pardon was proclaimed. It is pleasant to be able to say that this brave highlander like Rob Roy died inches own house and peacefully in in his own bed.
Baptized by Norman MacLeod
The late Mrs Livingstone was baptized by Rev. Norman Macleod who came from Skye to Morvern in 1775 and who died in the year 1824. Now that she is gone, probably there is no one living who was baptized by him. Mrs. Livingstone's ancestors belonged to the farming class, and the first half of her life was spent at Savary. Mr. John Sinclair was the laird and when he was getting old an infirm he advised all of his tenants to take leases on their holdings in case his successor might wish to get rid of them. This shrewd advise was pooh-poohed as quite unnecessary. But Mrs. Paterson scarcely purchased the Lochaline Estate when eviction notices were served on the tenants at Savary, Achnaha, Achabeg, Knock and Kinlochaline. These cruel and wholesale evictions greatly reduced the population of the parish. In 1831 the population was 2137 and now it is only between 600 and 700. When these clearances took place some 50 years ago, Mrs Livingstone went to Lochaline and set up business as a general grocer. She never left her native parish, with the exception of a few trips she had to make to Glasgow in connection to her business.
Under Five Sovereigns
It goes without saying that this venerable woman saw many changes take place during her long and useful life. She lived under five or six sovereigns. About 30 Morven lairds joined the majority during her lifetime. She knew Sheriff Gregorian of Ardtonish well and she was a special friend of Dr. Maclachlan, the sweet singer of Rahoy. In her early days the mail delivery took place only once a week. The route was rather peculiar: first from Oban to Kerrera; then Kerrera to Grass Point in Mull; from Grass Point to Phisnich; and from Phisnich the letter packet crossed to Morven. For two generations a family named Currie (father and son) managed the business of crossing the Sound in what was known as Berlin and managed it admirably. In her early days there were about fifteen miles of statutory road in Morven. Now there are forty eight or fifty miles of road. Probably the chief material improvements effected in Morven during the last thirty years of her life were the building of a pier at Lochaline, a boon we owe to the trustees of Mrs. Patterson, Lochaline Estate. The effecting of what is known as the low road between Lochaline Village and Archranaich, we owe to the late Mr. T. V. Smith of Ardtonish. to this proprietor we owe also the fine substantial cottage built some few years ago at Lochaline to supplant the thatched cottages which were getting rather old and rickety.

Mrs Livingstone was very well educated considering the state of education which was common when she was a girl. Her teacher was Samuel Cameron who as parish schoolmaster, taught at Kiel. The Schoolroom was very small, when we know that as many as
80 and 100 attended school in the wintertime. But it was in close proximity to the church. At writing time, and perhaps on other occasions the bigger pupils were allowed to go to the church and write on the church desks. Samuel Cameron was a man of some talents and figures largely in the Gaelic dialogues of the late Dr. Norman Macleod of Campsie and St. Columba, Glasgow.

Mrs Livingstone was a great favourite with the community. She was most industrious, benevolent, kindly in disposition and exceptionally generous. Many not only in Morven, but also in many other places, will hear with regret of her departure. But she was ripe for change, and longing for it latterly. The funeral took place to Kiel Churchyard on Saturday of last week, when a large company gathered to pay the last tribute of respect to one greatly beloved. A short religious service was conducted at the house and also a the grave by Rev. Mr. Maclean and Rev. Mr. McDiarmid. Mrs Livingstone leaves two sons and three daughters, several grandchildren and some great grandchildren.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen and Stephen,

As an interesting footnote to that article here is info on Betty Livingston 1818-1912 of Lochaline, Morvern
Betty's parents Her father was a McInnes and mother a Livingston and Betty married a Livingston.
1.Catharine Livingston b. abt. 1788 in Morvern died February 6, 1868 in lochaline, Morvern married Myles McInnes b. abt. 1779 in Savary, Morvern died March 20, 1865 Lochaline, Morvern
Children of Myles McInnes and Catharine Livingston
1.Betty McInnes born January 18, 1818 (baptized July 30, 1818) in Savary, Morvern died January 17, 1912 in Lochaline, Morvern married abt. 1842 in Morvern, Argyll Donald Livingston born abt.1805 or 1806 in Portvada, Morvern died March 11, 1877 in Lochaline Village. His parents recorded in his death record were Duncan Livingston and Catharine Cameron.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2763
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

Even if Hugh is not the son of Duncan Livingston and Catharine Cameron as I suspected the 1899 letter does I think give much reason at the very least to believe Ann Livingston is Duncan's Livingston cousin and what in many respects is just as important is that I think the letter pretty much establishs a likely Livingston family connection between Duncan and Ann as some sort of Livingston cousins that links them ancestrally to the Savary Livingston family of Donald Livingston's brother Hugh I realize that I was thrilled with the discovery of Stephen's letter and may have been a bit hasty in my conclusions regarding Hugh but I think a lot of seems to make sense though the father of Hugh could still prove be in reality difficult to prove as a son of Duncan Livingston and Catharine Cameron as there is no birth record to support that. The letter definitely if nothing else helps to link the Morvern Livingstons of Scioto County with those of Lawrence County, Ohio with the Livingstons back in Morvern. Of that I think I am more solid ground in saying.

regards,

Donald
johnbuchan
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:30 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by johnbuchan »

Donald
In seeking to identify Hugh's parents, would it help if I get a DNA test? I am not very familiar with how targeted or precise the DNA process is. For instance, are there DNA test results of Morvern Livingstons of Scioto County to compare with my Lawrence County DNA? Or better yet, DNA of descendants of Duncan Livingston (the Catherine Camerson husband) to compare with mine?

Another DNA question (maybe this is for another forum topic): if I get a DNA test, will it add anything to the data if my brother also gets a DNA test?
Thanks
Stephen
Post Reply