Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

[Maverick1975]

Also, did you notice she came in under her maiden name and not married? Or at least that is what they noted....Euphemia Campbell.

[Maverick1975]

After some digging in the Lawrence County, Ohio's genealogy page I was able to find Effie's child Sarah, who married an Albert Butler. She, too, is buried in the local cemetery there. I also found Hugh, the oldest. He fought in the Civil War. I am still trying to track down when they got to that county. They are not in the 1860 census yet that I have found. I'm having a hard time with 1870 too. But Duncan Livingstone keeps popping up. Maybe he was Hugh's brother? Or your line Donald?

Kristen

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald/Kristen.

A family I came across, & has dates that fit;

1. Archibald Livingstone – m - Christina McIntyre, 28 Jan 1804 Morvern.

2. They had 8 children born at Morvern, one daughter, Harriet moved to Tobermory, & married 23 Apr 1839 to Wm. Stewart McNiven, b 1805 Tuam, Gallway, Ireland.

3. Harriet is the only member of Archibald & Chritinas family mentioned, not sure why, possibly as It is a Mull site. the info was submitted by a Linda Brooks.

If you think this your family, there is further info available on Harrietts family, I can also contact Michael who runs the site to see if he can put Linda in touch,

John

[Maverick1975]

John,

I believe that is my Archibald Livingston line. I have notes that say Archibald and Cirsty were married 24 Jan 1804 so that lines up with the information you gave. I would love any more information if someone has it!

Thank you!

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
Nice find.
That was a good idea to check that source. There are no doubt other descendants of this Archibald Livingston family doing research and submitting the family info they have on Archibald. I will check Ancestry.com and see how many families are researching this family group as well both for Archibald Livingston and specifically for the Archie's son Hugh Livingston, his wife Effy Campbell and their family.

The Morvern parish records do not always include birth records but in this case when I checked the original documents they did for Archibald and the later birth records of the children of his son Hugh Livingston an d his wife Effy Campbell unfortunately in both cases the parish records are incomplete as is I find is often the case so Harriet which you mention could very well be one of the children of Archibald Livingston and Cirsty McIntyre that was not included in the old church of Scotland Morvern minister's parish book in the early 1800's.

Archie and his wife did move around a bit over the years, probably with him seeking work where he could find it in Western Argyllshire. As far back as one can go in the MOrvern records we find Archibald recorded as resident of Auslistine or Auliston on the north west coast of Morvern at the time of his marriage in 1804. There were a number of Livingstons living at the settlement at Auliston around Auliston farm including a Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron a couple probably in their forties who had apparently their last child born in 1805 a year after Archibald was married. Archibald and Kirsty's children's birth records then indicate that Archie and the family are then at Morvern tenant settlement of Killundine on the south west coast of Mull by 1808 where their first recorded child a daughter Peggy is born. The birth records for the children of Archibald and his wife Cirsty (Christian) McIntyre are likely incomplete and do not include the Harriet you mentioned. Here is what has survived:

1. Archibald Livingston resident of Killundine and Cirsty McIntyre a daughter Peggy born March 20, 1808

2. Archibald Livingston resident of Killundine and Cirty McIntyre a daughter Jean born Nov. 5, 1809

3. Archibald Livingston resident of Killundine and Cirsty MacIntyre a son Hugh born Sept. 11, 1811

4. Archibald Livingston resident of Drimmin and CIrsty MacIntyre a son Duncan born Feb. 12, 1817

As indicated by 1817 Archie and Cirsty are back up along the North west coast of Morvern at Drimmin which is next door to Aulistine settlement. Then the next record for Archibald Livingston and his wife Christian (Cirsty) before his death the 1841 Scottish census indicates that he is back at Aulistine. In the subsequent 1851 Census he does not appear and his wife Christian is living as a pauper in Aulistine. Kristen believes Archibald died around 1842; certainly sometime between 1841 and 1851. I have found information that the tenants at Aulistine or Auliston where cleared from their crofts there around 1855 and some of them relocated to nearby Ornsay Island.

At the time of Archibald Livingston and Cirsty McIntyre's marriage in 1804, Archie is recorded in the marriage entry as being a resident of Aulistine. There were I found out a number of McIntyres living in Aulistine at this time so chances are good Cirsty was also from Aulistine. I don't know for sure who Archibald's parents, only that there was one Livingston couple that lived in Aulistine in late 1700's and early 1800's named Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron and they had a son Donald Livingston whose wife was Ann Livingston and he lived at Aulistine in 1840's at the same time as Archibald. There were a couple of other Livingstons residing in Auliston in the early 1800's but by mid 1850's it looks like the last of them were cleared out of Auliston. I hope eventually to find out more about the 1855 Auliston clearances.




regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kristen,

I have seen that before in both the Scottish and in one Canadian census record of a relative of Scottish origin. They were I think in most cases, widows or elderly women of Scottish origin and they were recorded with their maiden names rather than husband's name. Particularly helpful to a family researcher if there are no surviving marriage records recording the maiden name of the wife.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kristen,

I have to correct myself. The Parish book records I mentioned for both Archibald and Hugh's children were birth records. I checked the original entry pages to be sure of that. Some of the ministers just included the baptisms but these I checked were actually their birth records please note. I had in a earlier message or messages as baptism records.

regards,

Donald

[Maverick1975]

So I went back to a document that another Livingston cousin sent to me after I found her on a Scotland website. She documents that Archibald and Cirsty had 9 kids as follows:

Sarah Livingston b. 1803 (which is interesting considering they weren't married unitl 1804)
Mary Livingston b. 1805 in Morvern (died 26 Nov. 1878)
Ann Livingston b. Oct 1806 in Morvern
Peggy (which you noted) b 20 March 1808 in Killudine.
Jean (which you also noted)
Hugh
Harriet
Duncan
John Livingston b. 1818 Morvern (died 27 Oct 1892).

I'm not sure where the information came from but this person has also been researching her line. Maybe she's a member here too??? Not sure. But she gave me a lot of information which I was grateful for.

I also wonder if Hugh's younger brother Duncan was the Duncan that was listed on the passenger manifest. It listed him as 44 but Hugh's brother would have been roughly 34 in 1851.

It also gives me a direction to look as far the 1860's census goes. I still can't find the family. I'm not sure they were in Ironton by 1860.

Is the reason the records are so incomplete is because they were poor? Are wealthier people reflected in the records better? I just wondered because I know when I was in Afghanistan only people who had money could afford to go and file paperwork at the local offices, ie land titles. Just makes me wonder. (Although I do realize we are talking 200 years ago and records get lost and burned and removed from places).

Also, you guys are amazing. Thank you so much for all your help. I keep rereading the posts to make sure I don't miss anything. I have really found in the last couple months how amazing the genealogy community is.


Kristen

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kristen,

I'm sorry I said Christian Livingston after the Auliston clearances was as indicated by the 1861 Census info residing on neighbouring Isle of Orsay. Actually that was another Livingston tenant of Auliston. I think I have found Christian in the 1861 Census but I am still in the process of verifying for certain it is her. Unfortunately it just states that she resides in Morvern Parish but not the settlement name. I will let you know when I figure out whether or not it her.

Quite often I don't find birth or baptismal entries for entire families. I don't know that it has any thing to do with the economic status of the impoverished Livingston highlander. They just weren't entered or the Church of Scotland had written the information down on a piece of paper and for some reason did not enter it the Parish book. Or the family did not contact the minister with birth info or were out of the parish. Must be some reason. I am wondering why so many of the earlier births or baptisms are missing in the Argyllshire parishes in the 1700's. The earliest parish records in Argyllshire don't generally date before the late 1750's and unfortunately in the case of the Morvern Parish records the earliest surviving entry was recorded in 1803. In neighbouring Isle of Lismore Parish, the earliest baptism record is from the late 1750's. If only the Morvern Parish went that far back, we could make more sense of how some of these old Morvern Livingston families residing in several settlement along the west coast of Movern are related to one another and perhaps to our Livingston families.

When doing genealogical research luck is an important factor in how far you progress in your research and how much information on your ancestors exists. Kinda like digging for buried treasure. Sometimes you find a few details, sometimes you hit the jackpot and other times nothing. I would say you hit the jackpot when you found that detailed passenger record of Hugh's widow and from the detailed information there that it looks like she and all her known children ended up settling in America in 1851. In my experience, finding detailed passenger lists for my ancestors has been almost impossible. I did however have some luck finding my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston on a list of passengers that arrived at a Hudson's Bay Port, in what was Hudson Bay Company Territory in British North America in 1812 aboard the Robert Taylor on his way to Lord Selkirk's Red River Colony in what is today the Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada area. But that was the only ancestor I am aware of that can be found on a surviving passenger list. I do know from other records however when some of my other ancestors arrived in Canada if not the precise date. I have actually know quite a lot about my Livingston great-great-great grandfather just nothing about his parents because there is no birth record. I only know from marriage record he was born in Morvern Parish and that was just a bit of a fluke that the minister recorded that extra bit of info because Miles and his wife Janet were not from his Parish on the Isle of Islay Argyllshire where in June of 1812, my great-great-great grandfather was married. And I know he was born abt. 1775 from the Red River Colony Records. The Colony records record he was from Mull, Argyll but that appears to be an error based probably from the fact that miles and the other Livingston him aboard the Robert Taylor were travelling aboard the ship with a significant number of settlers from Mull.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kristen and John,
tobarandualchais.co.uk/en has some brief excerpts from an interview by Historian Eric Kreegan in 1968 with Argyll Historian Alasdair Cameron.

Historian Alasdair Cameron was interviewed by Historian Eric Kreegan in the 1960's and these audio recordings while not full of a lot of information on Livingstons in the area give one the sense of how our Morvern and Mull Livingston ancestors might have pronounced the names of local Morvern settlements in gaelic. Beautiful to listen to especially for those of us not living in Scotland and not used to hearing a highlander with roots in western Argyllshire speak. The Camerons and McLeans were the predominate clans in Morvern long before our Dunlea/ Maconlea (Livingstones) who arrived probably around 1600 in Morvern Parish, from Achnacree/Benderloch, Argyllshire according to the Savary, Morvern Livingstons, were tenants either of the Camerons, McLeans or Campbells.

http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/fullrecord/27758/3

In the second recording Alasdair Cameron discusses the Livingstons that lived at Savary, Morvern. While the theory is mentioned that these Savary Livingstons connected to Donald Livingston 1728-1816 who rescued the Appin Regiment banner at the 1746 Battle of Culloden, were thought to be related to Dr. David Livingston, this has in recent years found through DNA testing not likely to be the case. Interestingly he mentions that one historian William Mathieson disagreed with Alasdair Cameron on this point. Of particular interest is the comment by Alasdair Cameron that he submitted an extract from Dr. Livingstone's journal which he received from Dr. Livingstone's grandson Dr. Hubert Livingstone Wilson and it was published in 1962 in the Oban Times, in which the Doctor comments in his journal on his visit to the County of Argyll in the 1860's. It was at this time that he visited with the Duke of Argyll and visited the Island of Ulva in search of relatives or anyone who had information on his Livingston grandparents that had lived at Ulva prior to settling in Blantyre, Lanarkshire in the year 1792.

http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/fullrecord/27755/2

Again it is a wonderful thing to hear a Scot from Argyllshire speak much as our Morvern and Mull Argyllshire ancestors would have.

regards,

Donald