Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

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Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

That is fantastic news. Our Morvern Livingston cousins are out there somewhere in the world, but not easily found. My research over the years is suggesting that Donald Livingston's Livingston's descendant are very few because of his known children some of them did not marry or son's did not have sons or marry, but there is hope in case of his brother Hugh (Ewen) Livingston of Savary Morvern whose descendants may also include the Lawrence County family. Donald Livingston of Savary 1745 Rebellion veteran died in 1816. I don't know when his bother Hugh (Ewen) Livingston just that in the 1779 Argyll tenants census he is listed with his brother Donald as a tenant At Savary, Movern. Interestingly Duncan Livingston Scioto County bio in the 1890's refers to Lawyer Duncan Livingston born in 1850 in Scioto County as being a descendant of the famous Donald Livingston himself. The other information from Duncan himself suggests that all these relatives including Sarah Burke and Mary Boyd who lived with Angus Livingston's Uncle John Livingston b.1773 of Westmoreland, Oneida County, Ohio and at one time in Waterville, Oneida County, Ny were children of Donald Livingston's brother Hugh Livington. SO I think the Scioto County author of the bio on prominent people from Scioto County probably just got confused when he stated that Lawyer Duncan Livingston was descended from famous Jacobite Donald Livingstone 1728-1816. In any event Duncan himself in his 1895 or 1896 article in the Celtic Monthly is quite clear that Sarah Livingston Burke and Mary Livingston Boyd were elderly nieces of Donald Livingstone of Savary, children of his brother Hugh Livingston who lived in Savary himself nearby to brother Donald in Savary before 1800.

From Duncan's bio as the story goes his father Angus Livingston born 1808 in Barr Morvern was working in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire in the 1830's and early 1840s' with furnaces and then in 1842 left for New York City where he then travelled to Oneida County New York State where his Uncle John Livingston was residing. And a few years later his mother Catharine, and his brothers John and Duncan joined him and joined him in Ohio and eventually they settled with him in Vernon, Scioto County Ohio where he found that there was employment working with furnaces. I have the census info on this Uncle John Livingston and this Mary Boyd. There is no information on John Livingston being married. I think there I had some information on Mary Boyd. She was married to a Boyd and I think we did find some information on who her husband was. Anyways by 1850 she was a widow with John Livingston, Angus Livingston's Uncle. John Livingston may have been her brother. Not sure.

1850 Census Westmoreland, Oneida County, New York State
John Livingston age 77 born abt. 1773 Scotland
Mary Boyd age 74 born abt. 1776 Scotland

regards,

Donald
Maverick1975
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 pm
Location: Aabybro, Denmark but from Texas and Indiana originally

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Maverick1975 »

Donald,

So if I am following the information you are giving, do we think Archibald Livingston who was the father of Hugh who married Effie (who moved with her kids to Lawrence County, OH) is a cousin of Duncan Livingston ? Archibald was born in 1780 or at least that is the information I have.

Or is it more likely Duncan's father and Archibald were brothers?

I've spoken to Stephen by email today and told him about the Y DNA project y'all are doing. I also gave him this site so he can check it out. I'm going to do some digging and see if I can find John's other boy Hugh and his son, Hugh Jr.

Kristen
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

The only definitive family connection back in Morvern that I know of is Angus Livingston with Sarah Burke and her sons William and Hugh and Sarah's sister Mary Boyd and Angus Livingston's Uncle John Livingston born 1773 who lived as mentioned in Oneida County, New York State. I don't know how the Hugh and Effy livingston family and Hugh's father Archibald are related to Angus Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio and his late father the husband of Angus Livingston's widowed mother Cathrine that lived before coming to Scioto County, Ohio in Achabeg, Morvrn at the same time as Hugh Livingston and Effy just that they almost certainly are related in some way. Son Duncan's bio actually states his father Angus was born 1808 in Barr, Morvern not Achabegg but these Livingston families moved around a lot along from one settlement to another along the western Morvern Coast. Those with roots to Savary, Morvern in the 1800's I found in the 1800's come be found in a number of settlements along the Morvern coast. Yes i suspect that Hugh's father Archibald might be a brother or cousin of Angus Livington's father who ever he was. He died before Angus Livingston's mother Catharine made the journey to Ohio and before the 1841 Census in Morvern so I have no info on him. I think Angus Livington of Scioto County, Ohio was the son of a Duncan Livingston but that is just my theory. In any event yes there is good chance that Archibald and Angus Livington's father may have been brothers or cousins but I can only suspect that to be the case with the information that is available unfortunately. Angus Livingstons mother we know was a Catharine and joined him in Ohio, but the father a Duncan Livingston (I think?) must have died before the 1841 census and his death is not recorded anywhere in the Morvern records. But yes my guess is the family connection between the Lawrence county and Scioto Livington families may be with Archibald and Angus Levingston's unknown father back in Morvern. I think we have stumbled upon some clues that definitely suggest a family connection between the two families with the possible links I have mentioned, but there is just not enough family info before 1803 in the Morvern Parish records to be 100 percent certain how the two Scioto and Lawrence County Livington families were related. Sarah Livingston Burke and Mary Livingston Boyd the Mary Boyd who was living with Angus Livingston's Uncle John Livingston in Westmoreland, Oneida County New York State in the 1850 Census, Angus Livingston''s son Lawyer Duncan Livingston in his Celtic Monthly article refers to them as elderly nieces of Donald Livingstone's brother Hugh or Ewen Livingston of Savary, Morvern. So Angus livingston, his son Duncan Livingston the lawyer the Sarah Livingston Burke, William Burke Jr. Hugh Burk
and old Uncle John Livingston living in New york State were all connected to the old Savary Morvern Livingston family and I suspect the Lawrence County Livingstons were as well, but I just can't say precisely how.. All I can do unfortunately is speculate.
regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

William Livingston of Texas sounds like he a very learned man and a history scholar who would have been no doubt really interested in his ancestral links to these Morvern Livingstons and possibly to the kin of the famous Donald Livingston of Savary, Morvern who fought with Bonnie Prince Charlies Army in 1745-1746.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

Sadly I suspected that those born in the early 2oth century might no longer be with us in 2016. There are fewer and fewer left from that Generation. But there is hope that their living kin might be interested in learning what you as a relative have learned of their father's family history and their ancestral connection to the Morvern Livingstons that settled in Lawrence County, Ohio and those Morvern Livingstons bac Argyllshire with highland roots with an ancient highland family.

Hopefully there are descendants interested in this family history. Not every one you will find is as interested in family history as you or I or many of the folks that visit this forum. Funny story about that. My father used to tell me a story of a friend where he used to work, who after much research found the village in Britain where his ancestor came from, got on a plane and eventually found a distant relative in the village where his fathers ancestors originated and after introducing himself and telling this gentleman from the village that they were related, he paused for a moment and replied, "So what?"
Fortunately nothing quite like that scenario happened to me, but I am sure it does happen from time to time and for sure I have talked to relatives about family history and I think I may have bored them completely.

regards,

Donald
Maverick1975
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 pm
Location: Aabybro, Denmark but from Texas and Indiana originally

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Maverick1975 »

Hey Don,

With some help on Ancestry.com, I think I have found the children of Hugh and Ruhama Dichell. He died around 1873 but he had Effie, Selina, John and Frank with her. (Hugh is Effie and Hugh's oldest). So there are two boys on that branch of the family. I am trying to locate them as well. I'll let you know when or if I find something.

Yeah, I get that attitude from my dad and my husband. They really just don't care and my dad loves history. I don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm adopted and have always wondered about my birth family so it has mattered a lot to me. But I love history too and genealogy is just that...history. It's all so fascinating.

So how likely is it that our Livingstons are connected to Livingstons that fought at the Battle of Culloden. And funny enough Effie's maiden name is Campbell and the Campbells of Argyllshire fought with the British didn't they?

Kristen
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

Great to hear that you taken on this research project to find descendants of your Morvern Livingston family group in the USA and that you are making some progress in that effort. How interesting it must be to you having discovering that your birth father was a highland Morvern, Argyllshire, Livingston. I don't know for certain you are related to Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary Morvern who as a young man of about 18 joined the Jacobite Appin Regiment commanded by Stewarts of Appin, Argyllshire, but for sure the neighbouring Livingston family in Scioto County was related to Donald apparently though his brother Hugh (Ewen) Livingston. Not having any family history on your family in Morvern Scotland like the Scioto family of Angus Livingston and son lawyer Duncan Livingston b. abt. 1850 in Ohio, I can only suspect from looking at the census info in Argyll and in America and the close proximity to the the Scioto and Lawrence county Livingston families both in Ohio and before that in Morvern Scotland itself that there might be as I shown in previous posts, a connection of your Livingstons with the Livingstons that settled at Scioto county ohio and to their famous relative Donald. All I can say is I suspect there is family connection with Donald Livingstone.

We only have so far three apparent Livingstons so far tested in our DNA project whose genealogy info links to Livingstons born in Morvern, but regrettably of these three Livingstons none has any genealogy linking them directly to Donald Livingstone's Savary family or the Scioto County, Livington family or your Lawrence County, family. I have tried to find over the years a Livingston with documentation proving them a direct descendant of Donald Livingstone of Savary, Morvern. Part of the problem with that task it that there is no published genealogy of Donald Livingstone's family line. I began work a few years creating as best I could Donald Livingstone's family line and discovered that he likely has very few Livingston descendants today, because either his sons did not have children or their children did not. I did find tracing one or two family lines into the lowlands of Scotland in the early 20th century that there might be Livingston descendants, but lost track of them for lack of available records. So it is possible there is a Livingston living in lowland Scotland who is direct descendant of old Donald of Savary, Morvern but I am not certain I will ever find him or them. Anyways if I could locate that one documented Livingston descendant of Donald Livingstone living today in the lowlands of Scotland or wherever then perhaps if they were interested at all in participating in the DNA project, we would be able to compare his DNA results with that of the other three Livingstons of Morvern Livingston descent and thereafter have a base from which to compare the next Livingstons tested in the project who are suspected by their genealogy and family tree info to likely be connected to a MOrvern Livingston family.

You may have more luck finding a "Livingston" descendant of the Lawrence County, Livingston.
I think however in my case, it may be unlikely I will ever find a Livingston from the families that I have researched who are connected to the children of the famous Donald Livingston of Savary, Morvern, but I do think that sometime in the next 10 years we may likely find one perhaps two more Morvern Livingstons to do the test. I don't expect more than two. Several years ago I came very close to finding a direct descendant of Donald Livingston of Savary but they were in an odd twist of fate, descended from a granddaughter of old Donald Livingstone of Savary you married another local Livingston also named Donald Livingston. In terms of the familytreedna Y chromosome test it would identify the granddaughter's Livingstons husband's DNA characteristic but would not help identifying the Donald Livingstone DNA characteristic because it was the granddaughter that descended from DONald Livingston. Then again it is possible that this granddaughter of old Donald married a Livingston who could have been a distant cousin possibly. Whether or not they were cousins is impossible to know. I am hoping however that sometime in the future this Morvern Livington descendant whose Morvern Livington ancestor married a granddaughter of old DONald Livingstone of Savary to do the test to see if he is in fact a match with the three Livingstons of apparent Morvern Livingston origin already tested.

On a positive note as far as the DNA project goes we have had quite a few Livingstons whose ancestors came from neighbouring Mull participate in the DNA project and the results of almost all of them matches relatively closely with the three Livingstons of Morvern Parish I mentioned including a third cousin of mine I had tested. I think it makes total sense that there would be Livingstons in Mull who share similar DNA marker results with their Livingston neighbouring beside them in Morvern. I think that makes total sense that many of Mull Livingston share a common Livingston ancestor way back who knows when with the Morvern Livingstons.

Baron Livingstone's father the late Baron Alastair Livingstone wrote a book which lists the name of the some of the highlanders who surviving documents show participated in the Jacobite revolt of 1745. I should consult with that book and see if there were Campbells in the Stewart of Appin led Appin Regiment. I can't rule out the possibility that some Campbells supported the Jacobites, but I would think that most of the Campbells of Argyllshire were supporters of the King and many of the high ranking officers of pro government Argyll regiment in that rebellion were I think Campbells.

regards,

Donald
Maverick1975
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 pm
Location: Aabybro, Denmark but from Texas and Indiana originally

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Maverick1975 »

Donald,

I will do whatever I can to help out. Just tell me if I can do anything.

My birth father wasn't a Livingston but my birth mother's ancestry goes back to one of Effie's children, Catherine. She's my great, great, great grandmother. She married a McGuire and moved to Indianapolis. It's just interesting to know I've Highlander blood. I've always wondered where my fascination and support of revolution comes from so maybe that is a part of it? I've always believed the Scots should be independent but what do I know? I'm descendant of a Scot, not a Scotsman myself.

I love all the history that you've been able to relate to me. It's really, really interesting. Thank you for that.

Kristen
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

Sorry I got this family info of yours mixed up a bit. I am still a sleep apparently this morning. Your birth mom's family were related to Morvern Livingstons.

Well I guess it is a difficult decision the Scottish folks will have to decide for themselves if it comes to a vote again in the future.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Kristen,

Just to get the approximate ages of these elder Livingstons, Burkes and Boyds we've been discussing in connection to Ohio Lawyer Duncan Livingston. The Ages in Census records I hav found to be notoriously inaccurate, but they can give you some idea of their age for sure.

Ohio Lawyer Duncan Livingston b.1850 relatives in 19th century America
Widow Catharine Livingston born abt. 1786 according to 1860 Ohio Census (or 1776 according to the 1851 Morvern Census), mother of Angus Livingston b.1808 b. Barr, Morvern, Scotland of Scioto County, Ohio. Lived with son Angus in Vernon Township, Scioto County, Ohio. Catharine Livingston according to her gravestone in Old Wheelersburg Cemetery in Wheelersburg, Scioto County, Ohio died September 30,1855.

William Burke Sr. born abt. 1780 in Scotland according to the Iron Valley, Milton Township, Jackson County,Ohio Census of 1860
Sarah (Livingston) Burke his wife born abt. 1786 in Scotland according to 1860 Census

John Livingston widower b. abt. 1773 in Scotland probably in Morvern Parish Said to be Uncle of Angus Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio. He resided in Westmoreland, Oneida County, New York State according to the 1850 Census with a sister? Mary (Livingston) Boyd and his daughter's family Mrs Resolved Healy (Jannette) is living with him. A John Livingston is buried in neighbouring Kirkland, Oneida County at the Kirkland Cemetery Clarkmills, Oneida County. It seems be the same John Livingstone as the inscription on the gravestone is "1773-1854 and there appears to be brief mention on the stone of a wive named Elizabeth. She apparently died sometime between 1841 and 1850 and not living by the time of the 1850 U.S Census was taken in Oneida County. I suspect that the John Livingston who is is censused in the 1820, 1830 and 1840 Census located in nearby Kirkland, Oneida County is the same John Livingston where he is living with a wife and appears to have had 3 sons and 3 daughters. One of the sons the eldest born sometime between 1805 and 1810 appears to be non naturalized as our the parents indicatiing that the eldest child a son and the two parents were indeed born outside of America in Scotland. So it appears that Uncle John Livingston has been in America since the early 1800's and settled firstly in Kirkland, Oneida County and then some years before his death by 1850 is residing in nearby Westmoreland, Oneida County. John may have been the first of his Morvern family in America and may have written and encouraged the others to do the same. I don't know how long Mary Livingston Boyd had been living in America.

Mary (Livingston) Boyd b. abt. 1776 Scotland widow and sister? of Angus Livingstone's Uncle John Livingstone living with Angus Livingston's Uncle John Livingston in Oneida County, New York State. According the bio of lawyer Duncan Livingston born in Scioto County, Ohio, published in the 1890's, his father Angus Livingston when he first came to America arriving in New York City in 1842 journeyed to Oneida County, New York State to see his Uncle John Livingstone. In 1860 some years after the death of John Livingston, Mary Boyd is continuing to live with Rsolve Healy age 49 and his wife Jenette Healy, the late John Livingston's daughter.

Lawyer Duncan Livingston of Scioto County, Ohio was quite clear in his later recollections that Sarah Livingston Burke and her sister Mary Livingston Boyd were nieces of the famous Donald Livingstone 1729-1816 who was at the Battle of Culloden in 1746 fighting on the side of Bonnie Prince Charlie in the Appin Regiment of the Prince's Jacobite rebel Army. He also states that they were daughters of his brother Hugh (Ewen) Livingstone. Hugh or Ewen Livingstone according to an 1779 Argyll Census lived in Savary, Morvern near his brother Donald and another Livingston named Malcolm Livingston. Their father John Livingston and mother Ann Mcinnes died before 1760 are buried in old Kiel Cemetery in Morvern, Argyll. Donald Livingstone had an ornate stone table tomb made especially for his parents that was beautifully decorated with a Maclea/Livingstone family armorial and other hand carved decorations.

If William and Sarah Burke's son Hugh married Margaret Livingston you would not think they would be closely related through their Livingston family ancestry but the two Livingston families from which they are connected either are not closely related or Hugh Burke and Margaret Livingston are second or third cousins. I presume them to be at least second or third cousins not first cousins. Pretty certain they were not likely first cousins in any event. The Livingstons of Scioto County Ohio and their Burke relatives would definitely have known your Livingstons in Morvern. I found some of them in same settlement in Morvern before they left for America and it is only a question of whether they were closely related like second or third cousins I suspect or more distantly
related.

Hugh Burke married Margaret (Peggy) Livingston August 31, 1852 Scioto County, Ohio. In 1860 Hugh Burk age 34 b. Scotland and his wife Chistina Margaret Burk age 24 b. Scotland are living in Decatur, Lawrence County, Ohio Campbell Post Office with children Christina Burk age 6, Hugh Burk age 5 William Burk age 3, John Burk 2 Duncan Burk age 5/12. Hugh married the Margaret (Peggy) Livingston daughter of Hugh and Effy Livingston that at the age of 15 arrived in 1851 in New York City from Morvern with her widowed mother Effy Livingston and the rest of her siblings. The Donald Livingston that accompanied them was probably a relative of her late husbands I suspect a single man that may be recorded in the 1851 and 1841 census in Morvern.


regards,

Donald
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