Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

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Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:33 pm

Hi y'all! I'm Kristen Christiansen (nee Long) and I have recently started doing genealogy on my birth family who I found a couple months ago. On my birth mother's side I'm related to Archibald Livingston out of Morvern. My lineage goes like this:

Catherine Livingston McGuire (b. 1841 in Morvern, died in Indianapolis in 1921)

Hugh Livingston (b 1811 Killudine, died before the 1851 census) (married Effie Campbell born 1801 in Kilfinichen, died 1879 in Ironton, Ohio)
Archibald Livingston (born 1780, died 1842) (married Christian (?) Cirsty MacIntyre)

That's about as far back as I've been able to go so far. Thanks for letting me join and participate. This sounds so silly but I've always been in love with the Scots and the Irish, the music, the food, etc and now I understand why.

I will admit I have been having trouble tracking Hugh and his wife and kids. I know he died before 1851 because he isn't in the census. Effie is as are some of the kids but not all (including some of the younger ones). I've been in contact with another Livingston descendant and she has helped me a great deal. She found a couple of the older kids in the 1851 census and beyond who were in the 20s and working. But the other kids not being in the census was a bit surprising. The census calls Effie a pauper's wife and I have a feeling (and my contact suggested as well) she left Scotland with some of her kids just after the census in 1851 for a better life. In the US census', the kids say they immigrated in 1851. I have not yet found that document. I also wonder if they were affected by the Clearances but I know so very little about that. In fact, most of what I do know I learned in the past day or two. It's disheartening to know humans can do that to one another.

Well, thank you again for admitting me! I look forward to participating and reading the posts!

Kristen
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:52 pm

Hi Kristen,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum. My great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston b. abt. 1775 according to his 1812 marriage entry was also a native of Morvern Parish. No luck with locating a baptism or birth record as the Morvern Parish records prior to the early 1800's no longer exist. My ancestor's approximate birth date was derived from a later settlement record year later in Canada a few years after arriving. You are likely in the same boat as me as far as tracing your Morvern ancestry much into the 1700's. I have done a lot of research on Western Argyllshire Livingston, particularly Morvern parish families.

The Clan Society is involved in a genealogical DNA research project for about 10 years and the results suggest that the Morvern Livingstons tested so far share a common ancestor and also share a common ancestry also with Livingtons connected to neighbouring Mull in Western highland Argyllshire. Only three Livingstons of Morvern Livingston descent to my knowledge have been tested, but all three seem to be a relatively close match to one another. One of them in particular is very close match to my Livingston cousin one of the three Livingstons of Morvern ancestry in the DNA project.

I will do a preliminary search of info just to get a sense of what is available regarding your Livingstons in Morvern and see if there is any information I can locate that may be of help to you. As mentioned though the Morvern Parish records are sadly lacking information prior to the early 1800's much to my regret and others with ancestry roots in Morvern Parish.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:31 pm

Hi Kristen,
Just to get a better sense of your Morvern Livingstons this what I learned so far and much of this or all of it you may already know. This is probably new to me and of interest as I suspect many of the Livingstons that resided in Morvern Parish in the 1700's and early 1800's likely shared a common ancestor.

Archibald Livingston a labourer residing in Austeline, Movern according his marriage entry and Christian or Cirsty MacIntyre were married on January 24th, 1804. Austeline or Aulestin is also spelt Auliston. Auliston was an old tenant settlement located on the North west coast of Morvern. There are surviving birth entries for four children of Archibald Livingston and Cirty MacIntyre: Peggy baptized March 20,1808, Jean Nov. 5, 1809, Hugh Sept. 30, 1811, Duncan Feb. 12, 1817. The 1841 Scottish Census records Archibald Livingston age 60 (born abt. 1781?) wife Christian age 60 (born abt. 1781) and a unmarried daughter Ann age 35 (born abt. 1806). You mentioned that Archibald died in 1842. I can't confirm that with records that are available to me but you may information from other Livingston family sources. There are no parish death records kept by the Church of Scotland available I don't think prior to 1850's and it was not until the mid 1850's the deaths were officially registered in Scotland with the government. Sometimes I am able to determine earlier death dates from some of the old cemetery stones in Keil Cemetery near Lochaline, Morvern, but it looks to me like most of the Livingstons in that cemetery were either buried without a gravestone or they have long since disappeared. There are however some old Livingston gravestones there. It seems likely that old Archibald was buried there and furthermore given that his son Hugh Livingston born abt. 1811 was apparently living in the Keil/Lochaline area of Morvern Parish presumingly at the time of his death, then chances are good he was buried there. I did a study of the Livingstons buried in that cemetery a few years back, and came to the conclusion that most of the Church of Scotland Livingstons in surrounding area in Morvern were probably buried there, but if so there is no way of identifying most of them buried there because there are very few surviving Livingstone gravestone in the present day.


The 1841 Scottish Census reveals that most of the family with the exception of one daughter Ann are not living with the parents Archibald Livingston and his wife Christian (Cirsty) McIntyre. From this census it is also known that the son Hugh Livingston is living with his wife Euniphenia (possibly also spelt Euphemia?) also known as Effy. The Morvern Parish entry indicates that your ancestor Hugh Livingston a resident at the time of his marriage in Kyle (Keil) Morvern in the south west coast of Morvern and married as you mentioned Effy Campbell on August 8, 1829. In the 1841 Census Hugh Livingston recorded as age 35, his wife Euniphenia age 40 and children Hugh age 10, Christina age 8, John age 6, Mary age 2 and your ancestor Catharine age 3 months at this time. The Hugh Livingston family however at this time in 1841 are recorded as residents of Achbegg, actually Achabeg, Morvern. In the 1851 Census, Hugh Sr. as you have noted is oddly enough missing from the Census and while his wife is not listed as a widow that would seem be a likely possibility as you are suggesting. The fact that she left for America around 1851? without her husband apparently certainly would confirm that he had died, I am guessing, sometime after the birth of their youngest child Sarah born abt. 1845 and the year 1851. The 1851 census only tells us that Effy's husband was a "pauper farmer" as sadly were a good number of those Livingstons tenants who lived in Morvern Parish around the time of the clearances.

I have not as yet checked the Morvern parish records for the recorded birth of the children of Hugh Livingston and his Effy Campbell but as mentioned in the 1841 Census there was Hugh, Christina, John, Mary and Catharine. The 1851 Census records that two more children Ann born abt 1843 and Sarah born abt. 1845 were born to your ancestors Hugh and Effy Livingston. It is of interest also that Effy and here children according to the census of 1851 are now living at "12 Sinclair? at Lochaline near to the where the Keil Cemetery is located.

Do you have any more information on Effy and her children and where they first settled in Ohio in the 1850'? I have been researching another Movern Livingston family that left Morvern in the 1840's for New York State and Ohio were related to Donald Livingstone 1728-1817 of Savary, Morvern, local Jacobite hero of the 1745 Rebellion led by Bonnie Prince Charlie and who is buried with his family in old Keil Cemetery near Lochaline. One Livingston related to Donald Livingston of Savary settled at Scioto, Ohio. His son Duncan born in Ohio around 1850 became a prominent lawyer there and family historian in the later 1800's. They were apparently descended from a brother of the above mentioned Donald Livingston who also lived at Savary in the 1700's. I have come to the conclusion that many of these 18th and 19th century Livingstons that lived in tenant settlements along the west coast of Morvern Parish across from Mull were probably related to each other in some way, some more closely related than other perhaps. Many I believe shared a more distant ancestor with Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 and his brothers of Savary, Morvern whose ancestor apparently arrived in Morvern Parish as early as year 1600 or thereabouts according to what Duncan Livingston of Scioto Ohio had been told by his older Livingston relatives from Morvern, connected to the old Savary, Morvern Livingstons.

There were some Livingstons that I researched earlier who lived at "Achbegg" Morvern also in the 1840's,at the same time as some of your relatives, but again with the unfortunate state of the Morvern parish records it is difficult to connect the Morvern Livingston families, though I have discovered some of the them are definitely related. The father of Duncan Livingston b. 1850 in Scioto, Ohio was an Angus Livingston who lived at Barr, Morvern another tenant settlement along the west coast of Movern, but many of these Livingston tenant families living in tenant settlement along the west coast of Morvern in the 18th and early 19th centuries must have been related to one degree or another I suspect. I have struggled over several years to connect some of these old Morvern Livingston families with what records I can find to work with and have some success, but in many cases it is impossible to do so. The Livingstons whom lived at Savary, I know were connected to some of the Livingstons who lived at one time or another at Barr and Lochaline, Achbegg and other tenant settlements along the West coast. I don't know about Austelin but that could be as well. I am going to go through my notes on the Morvern Livingstons I have researched and see if anything rings any bells.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:34 pm

HI Kristen,

The Morvern Parish records going back as far as they go indicate as mentioned that your ancestor Archibald Livingston married in 1804 was a resident of Aulestin at the time of his marriage, likely residing in a croft at the settlement of Aulestin or Auliston on th west coast of Morvern Parish. While the son Hugh was born in 1811 at Killudine settlement on the west coast of Morvern, the marriage record confirms the likelihood that Archibald's origin point seems to have been a little father north along the western coast of Movern at Auliston. A later baptism record shows that he and his wife were at Drimmin settlement beside Auliston and then years later the 1841 Census indicates that Archibald and his wife Christian remained at a croft there.Likely he had brothers and sisters and parents that may also have lived at Aulestin in 1804. The sad reality is that I can't get beyond 1804 nor will I be able to find Archibald's Morvern parish baptism or birth record because it won't exist. So Aulestin is the earliest location for your Livingstons so far. And we know from the 1841 Census that Archibald and his wife Christian McIntyre were still living as a crofter in the Aulestin farm area. I found Christian Livingston in the 1851 Census listed as a pauper servant still living in the area of Aulestin farm. No Archibald, so as you said he must died before the 1851 Census.

I noticed also that in the 1851 Census you have in the Aulestin farm area near your ancestor widow Christian Livingston is Donald Livingston and his wife Ann and their family. Donald and Ann Livingston according to the 1861 Census has moved from Aulestin sometime in the 1850's perhaps dues to clearances and they end up on neighbouring Isle of Oransay where Donald Livingston died on March 7, 1867. I know this because I managed to find a death record for this former Aulestine Livingston resident. And this death record records his parents as the late Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron. Whether or this Donald Livingston was related to your Archibald Livingston possibly a younger brother I don't know as unfortunately Archibald died before the 1850's when detailed death entries were kept. Unfortunately I won't be able to find baptism or birth records for Archibald to verify whether or not he was a brother of this Donald Livingston who apparently lived as a tenant at Aulestin at the same time as Christian Livingston and probably when her husband Archibald was living. That being said there is a possibility that a Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron may have been Archibald's parents, but can't say for certain.

The Donald and Ann Livingston possible family connection with Archibald is the best lead so far. The 1841 Census indicates that both Donald Livingston and Archibald Livingston are residing as tenants at Aulestin, Morvern. In the 1841 census info it indicates that living with this Donald Livingston is mother Sarah Livingston who also appears with Donald Livingston in the subsequent 1851 census at Aulestin and is recorded as Sarah McInnes her maiden name. The 1841 census indicates that Donald Livingston of Aulestine was born abt. 1781 so around the same time as your ancestor Archibald. We do not know who Archie's parents were but from this Donald Livingston's death record in 1867 it is determined that Donalds parents were Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron. But where did Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron live way back when. The Morvern Baptism records state that Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron residing in Aulestin had one last child baptized in 1805. This is almost certainly the parents of Donald Livingston born abt. 1780 or 1790 that lived in Aulestin at the same time as Archibald Livingston as indicated in the 1841 Census.



1841 Census Austeline Morvern

Donald Livingston age 60
Ann Livingston age 55
Sarah Livingston age 80
Ann Livingston age 80
Donald Livingston age 15
Janet age 11
Neil age 8
John Livingston age 35
Sarah age 25


1851 Census Austeline Morvern
Donald Livingston age 61
Ann Livingston age 60
Sarah McInnes age 83
Donald Livingston age 25
Janet age 23
Catharine age 21
Neil age 19
Mary age 17
Ewen age 15

1861 Census Ornsay Island, Morvern, Argyll near Aulestine
Donald Livingston age 72 born abt. 1791?
Ann Livingston age 70
Janet age 21
Catharine age 26
Mary Livingston age 24

The ages included in these census records were recorded at the time incorrect in places but hopefully you get the general idea that this Donald Livingston seems to have originated at Auliston apparently as Archibalds seems to have and they may both be sons of a Duncan Livingston and Sarah Cameron who according to baptism records were residing at Aulestin in 1805 around the same time probably when your ancestor Archibald was married in Auliston.

I noticed that one descendant of a Mcintyre from Auliston commented that in 1855 most of tenants of Auliston were relocated to neighbouring Ornsay Island so it appears that Donald Livingston and his family were one of those families as you can see in the 1861 Census. I noticed someone else speak of the Auliston evictions but was not certain when they occurred.



regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:45 pm

Hi Kristen,

Here are some amazing photos taken of ruins crofts etc. some in the vicinity of Auliston in Morvern where your ancestor Archibald Livingston lived in the early 1800's and probably before that. Auliston is apparently across from Tobermory so I would think could be accessed without too much difficulty by a boat out of Tobermory Harbour that travels around the Sound of Mull.

http://www.boydharris.co.uk/w_bh15/150623.htm

regards,

Donald
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:37 am

Hi Kristen,

Archibald and Christian Livingston are married in 1804 in Aulestin or Auliston in Morvern Parish, but by 1808 they are at Kilundine where a daughter Peggy is born and few years later your ancestor Hugh Livingston in 1811. At the same a Miles Livingston and his wife according to the birth records are also apparently residing at Kilundine around that time or a few years later. Not my great-great-great grandfather who was a Miles Livingston b. 1775 of Morvern but probably a cousin since Miles I was told is not a common name amongst Livingstons generally in Western Argyll and seems to specific to a certain Livingston family group in the Morvern and neighbouring Lismore isle Area. This Miles Livingston and his wife ? McPherson interestingly enough while at Kilundine have a son which they named Archibald baptized on May 8, 1812.

I suspect this Miles Livingston residing at Kilundine around the same time as your ancestor Archibald and who named his own son also Archibald ,curiously enough, is probably more closely related to your Hugh Livingson than my great-great-great grandfather also named Miles Livingston who left Morvern and married on June 20, 1812 while residing on the Ilse of Islay, Argyll on his way to board a ship to Canada that was waiting in a port in Ireland to take settlers to Canada.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2430
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:38 pm

Hi Donald!

Wow, you have a lot of information for me! I've read through it all once but will have to go back through it all again.

As far as your question about where my great+ grandmother Catherine and children ended up, all the US census information says (or they claim) that Catherine and children came around 1851. But Catherine, in the different census information, gives three different years for arrival: 1846, 1851 and 1857. Her older brother and sister John and Christina give 1851. Catherine was only 10 or so when they came in 1851 so I think she might be mistaken. That being said, I have yet to find records of the ship that brought them to America or the port they arrived in. After leaving Scotland, around 1851, the next records I find are in Ironton, Lawrence County, Ohio. I know for sure that John, Christina, Catherine, Anna and Mary came over with her. I have records for that. Effie, John and Anna all died in Ironton and are buried there. John's occupation is listed as an Engineer in the 1880 census and only Anna, his sister, was living with him. Christina had married and was living in Hamden, Vinton County, Ohio with her husband. In 1900, he claims his occupation as merchant. Anna never married. Mary married a man by the name of William Knie and moved out west to Missouri and presumably died there. I have no idea what happened to Peggy or Sarah. Hugh married a Flora and continued to live in Scotland. My Catherine moved to Indianapolis with her Irish husband John McGuire and died there.

John, Effie and Hugh's son fought in the civil war on the union side: http://lawrencecountyohio.com/civilwar/ ... gstone.htm It says he came with his parents but I don't think that is true. I have found no record of Hugh in the US. And this obituary also verifies the family immigrated to the US in 1851.

Scioto and Lawrence counties were right next to each other so I would not be surprised if related families wound up there. It seems that Lawrence county was populated with mostly Irish and Scottish immigrants.

I find it very interesting that in the 1851 census some of the younger kids are missing. Mary is not listed and neither is John. Kett I believe is my grandmother Catherine since they were born the same year. Christina would have been 20 and Peggy around 18 or so and they aren't listed either. So I am wondering if other family took them in or maybe Christina took t hem to the US earlier to live with family there? It's just a big blank spot.

I live in Denmark with my Danish husband so I hope some time in the future to get to Scotland for a visit.

Thank you again for all the information and I will post if I find more. :D This is all so very fascinating. One question. Is there any way to prove that they were kicked off the land because of the clearances? Anything official? Or was it all done under the table and unofficially? Sorry I don't know much yet about it.

Sincerely,

Kristen
Maverick1975
 
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:07 pm

I think I found the passenger manifest they came on.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1849782

Interestingly enough, it seems to be ALL the kids minus Peggy. Even the oldest boy, Hugh. So maybe my information is wrong about him marrying Flora and staying in Scotland. And this record is indeed dated 1851.
There is a Donald Livingston, aged 44, that came over on that same boat. He is listed just above Effie and her family. They came in through NYC on a ship named the Corra Linn.
Maverick1975
 
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:53 pm

Hi Kristnen,

That is a pretty amazing bit of luck to find a detailed passenger list like that for your ancestors. It is always a bit hit or miss searching for them and many of them simply haven't survive. No doubt that is your ancestor Iffy Campbell Livingston and her children including Peggy Livingston (Margaret Livingston) recorded before Effy and also recorded in the Morvern birth records as Hugh born 1830, Peggy 1833, John 1835, Mary 1838, and Catharine 1841. Some of the children were not recorded in the baptism records not uncommon in the MOrvern Parish book. The ages listed in their census and in the passenger list are probably not entirely correct so I would not rely too much on them as being entirely accurate unfortunately but at least they give you a good idea a good idea of whom the family of the Hugh and Effy were. The Donald Livingston age 44 born in 1806 or 1807 I would presume to be a relative but not certain which Donald that is. He appears to be a single man travelling with I assume with the widower and her family. He may show up in the 1861 U.S. Census? I will check again and see if i can find this Donald Livingston in the 1841 and 1851 Scottish census in Argyll.

Based on the study of the Morvern Baptism and the 1841 and 1851 records and the passenger list you located, all of the known children (8) in total Hugh, Christian, Margaret (Peggy), John, Mary, Catharine, Ann and Sarah in that order. So it looks like the entire family made it to America in 1851 and ended up in Ohio. Pretty sure the Margaret age 15 is actually Peggy with the age a bit off from the Morvern baptismal info. If you reconstruct the Passenger list in numerical sequence it does make more sense I think based on the age information apparently given at the time and if in correct order would look like this: Hugh 20, Christian 18, Margaret (Peggy) 15, John 13, Mary 10, Catharine 8, Ann 6, Sarah 4. I constantly come in contact with records with age information that conflicts and sometimes just have work with it or work around it. It is sometimes to be sure.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:07 pm

Donald,

That's a good catch. I assumed the Margaret above Effie was a daughter of that Donald. I have found many Donald's in the different census information many of them living in and around Ironton, Ohio. I'm wondering if Hugh moved back to Scotland. I can't find any record of him at all. But i will keep digging and see if I can come up with anything.
Maverick1975
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 pm
Location: Aabybro, Denmark but from Texas and Indiana originally

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